Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Re: A Financial Thought from an Early ER
Old 03-03-2007, 11:09 AM   #21
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,318
Re: A Financial Thought from an Early ER

Mead, Congrats on building up a little cash machine in your corporation. Gee, if that spews out 2/3 of your total income it looks like a winner. More pesky questions: if you were to bail on your salary job and spend your time in your corporation instead, might you be able to boost its profits up enough to cover lost salary, and have plenty of free time and quality of life left to burn? Anyway, sounds like you've been doing your homework so not suggesting your plan isn't sound -- buffers are always nice if you can stay comfortably in the workforce long enough to build them up... for some of us that wasn't an option!
__________________

__________________
ER for 10 years; living off 4.3% of savings (and a few book royalties ;-)
ESRBob is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Re: A Financial Thought from an Early ER
Old 03-03-2007, 01:20 PM   #22
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Gone4Good's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 5,381
Re: A Financial Thought from an Early ER

Quote:
Originally Posted by MooreBonds
it relieves me to hear that there are several people who share my assumption that the sometimes quoted phrase of "you can always work part-time or go back to work" is easier said than done.
Count me among that group.

I think it's safe to assume that most of us will become basically unemployable a couple years into retirement (Wal-mart greeters aside). This is especially true during difficult economic times when even Wal-mart greeter jobs may be in short supply. And logic follows that it will be precisely during difficult economic times when ER's will be thinking about reentering the workforce. I, for one, am not building a retirement plan around the idea that after 5+ years out of the workforce I'll be able to just run out and get a job at a time when the unemployment rate is 10%.

Another assumption that deserves close examination is the one where "I'll just cut my expenses when things get tough." Of course you will, but how much fat are you allowing in your budget and how happy will you be with your ER choice once you need to start cutting? A sobering example involves a person who retired in 1966 with a 4% initial withdrawal rate, 65% equities, and used Guyton's "Capital Preservation Rule"*. By 1979 the retiree's real standard of living would be cut by 47%. Following Guyton's prosperity rule (the reverse of the CPR), the retiree's standard of living would not increase again for a decade, with the first increase in 1989. And even after the 80's booming stock market, that increase brings the real standard of living up to just 58% of what the retiree started with. The retiree doesn't get back to even until 1999.

It's advisable to think not only of whether a portfolio "survives" but how happy you'll be along the way.




*The Capital Preservation Rule says that if the current withdrawal rate increases 20% above the initial withdrawal rate then spending is reduced by 10%.
__________________

__________________
Retired early, traveling perpetually.
Gone4Good is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: A Financial Thought from an Early ER
Old 03-03-2007, 01:44 PM   #23
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
DangerMouse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Silicon Valley
Posts: 1,812
Re: A Financial Thought from an Early ER

As we are planning on retiring at 45 with a smaller nest egg than some here, DH and I have discussed the possibility of getting part-time w*rk if need be or what we something special. Unlike most, we are quite keen on trying something totally different. If need be we might go fruit picking for a month or so at a time. It's hard physical labour but for people who have spent their whole lives stuck in front of computers playing the corporate fresh air it seem attractive. No need to have a special wardrobe or sit through endless meeting listening to people in love wiht the sound of their own voices, just fresh air and exercise wearing a pair of shorts.
__________________

I be a girl, he's a boy. Think I maybe FIRED since July 08. Mid 40s, no kidlets. Actually am totally clueless as to what is going on with DH.
DangerMouse is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: A Financial Thought from an Early ER
Old 03-03-2007, 02:18 PM   #24
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
youbet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 9,965
Re: A Financial Thought from an Early ER

Quote:
Originally Posted by DangerMouse
As we are planning on retiring at 45 with a smaller nest egg than some here, DH and I have discussed the possibility of getting part-time w*rk if need be or what we something special. Unlike most, we are quite keen on trying something totally different. If need be we might go fruit picking for a month or so at a time. It's hard physical labour but for people who have spent their whole lives stuck in front of computers playing the corporate fresh air it seem attractive. No need to have a special wardrobe or sit through endless meeting listening to people in love wiht the sound of their own voices, just fresh air and exercise wearing a pair of shorts.
With the emphasis on "exercise!"
__________________
"I wasn't born blue blood. I was born blue-collar." John Wort Hannam
youbet is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: A Financial Thought from an Early ER
Old 03-03-2007, 02:29 PM   #25
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 585
Re: A Financial Thought from an Early ER

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3 Yrs to Go
Another assumption that deserves close examination is the one where "I'll just cut my expenses when things get tough." Of course you will, but how much fat are you allowing in your budget and how happy will you be with your ER choice once you need to start cutting? A sobering example involves a person who retired in 1966 with a 4% initial withdrawal rate, 65% equities, and used Guyton's "Capital Preservation Rule"*. By 1979 the retiree's real standard of living would be cut by 47%. Following Guyton's prosperity rule (the reverse of the CPR), the retiree's standard of living would not increase again for a decade, with the first increase in 1989. And even after the 80's booming stock market, that increase brings the real standard of living up to just 58% of what the retiree started with. The retiree doesn't get back to even until 1999.

It's advisable to think not only of whether a portfolio "survives" but how happy you'll be along the way.

*The Capital Preservation Rule says that if the current withdrawal rate increases 20% above the initial withdrawal rate then spending is reduced by 10%.
The SWR that is put out with FieCalc has inflation factored into it already, so your standard of living would not be reduced! If you just continued at 4% without a COLA, you would be cutting back! - Quite dramatically!
__________________
Cut-Throat is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: A Financial Thought from an Early ER
Old 03-03-2007, 02:41 PM   #26
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Gone4Good's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 5,381
Re: A Financial Thought from an Early ER

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cut-Throat
The SWR that is put out with FieCalc has inflation factored into it already, so your standard of living would not be reduced! If you just continued at 4% without a COLA, you would be cutting back! - Quite dramatically!
For someone retiring in 1966 a 4% WR adjusted annually for inflation fails by 1990.

I ran my own simulation to see what life would be like for that 1966 retiree using Guyton's Capital Preservation Rules. And according to my #'s (maybe ESRBob or someone else could verify), the CPR results in a 47% standard of living decrease by 1979 with the first 10% spending reduction happening in 1970.

The "upside" of the CPR is that you never run out of money - but it is also worth knowing what those rules could potentially mean in reduced standard of living.
__________________
Retired early, traveling perpetually.
Gone4Good is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: A Financial Thought from an Early ER
Old 03-03-2007, 02:58 PM   #27
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 585
Re: A Financial Thought from an Early ER

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3 Yrs to Go
For someone retiring in 1966 a 4% WR adjusted annually for inflation fails by 1990.
Yes it does and 3.7% survives with Cola. My point was that your standard of living does not have to decrease by 47% to survive.

Also the guy that diversified into a Cola immediate Annuity in 1966, was probably just fine.
__________________
Cut-Throat is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: A Financial Thought from an Early ER
Old 03-03-2007, 04:12 PM   #28
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Gone4Good's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 5,381
Re: A Financial Thought from an Early ER

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cut-Throat
My point was that your standard of living does not have to decrease by 47% to survive.
No, it didn't. But we don't get to make choices knowing the outcome in advance. Even your initial 3.7% initial withdrawal rate explodes to 10% by the early 1980's. I'm not sure I'd be willing to bet in 1980 that my portfolio would last another another 15 or 20 years. As it turned out, it barely did notwithstanding a fantastic equity run.

Although everyone's situation is different most of us here aren't talking about 30 year retirement horizons. So in 1980, if I'm still looking at maybe another 30 years to go, I'd probably want to cut that 10% withdrawal rate in half (which is pretty much what the CPR says to do).

COLA'd annuities are nice, but I don't think anyone is going to offer me one when I retire at 38 or so.
__________________
Retired early, traveling perpetually.
Gone4Good is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: A Financial Thought from an Early ER
Old 03-03-2007, 09:26 PM   #29
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 585
Re: A Financial Thought from an Early ER

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3 Yrs to Go
No, it didn't.
COLA'd annuities are nice, but I don't think anyone is going to offer me one when I retire at 38 or so.
retiring at 38 is a big risk. Not trying to talk you out of it at all. - In fact congratulations. But that is probably your greatest risk factor. I am talking from the point of view of a 55 year old, which makes things a little simpler. And I would not purchase an annuity until age 70.
__________________
Cut-Throat is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: A Financial Thought from an Early ER
Old 03-03-2007, 10:59 PM   #30
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,318
Re: A Financial Thought from an Early ER

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3 Yrs to Go


I ran my own simulation to see what life would be like for that 1966 retiree using Guyton's Capital Preservation Rules. And according to my #'s (maybe ESRBob or someone else could verify), the CPR results in a 47% standard of living decrease by 1979 with the first 10% spending reduction happening in 1970.
I'd have to dig up the numbers that I ran for the simulation on page 191 of Work Less Live More, but the graph shows that in constant dollars, retiring in 1965, you are down nearly 40% by 1974, using a 4% of portfolio value withdrawal each year and the 95% Rule (spend 95% of what you spent last year if it is more than 4% of your Jan 1 portfolio balance to smooth out the bumps). The whole portfolio does recover in real terms but it still took 20 years to climb back up to your starting point, and by the 30 year mark you are about 45% ahead of starting point in real terms.

The drop in real portfolio value is a steep one in times like that, and having some sort of way to bail out your sanity and your spending levels with some additional PT income pretty much needs to be part of the plan if you run into another 1965-1982 kind of period, no matter what your withdrawal method. (either that or cut expenses dramatically by moving to a developing country or somesuch).
__________________
ER for 10 years; living off 4.3% of savings (and a few book royalties ;-)
ESRBob is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: A Financial Thought from an Early ER
Old 03-04-2007, 07:22 AM   #31
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Gone4Good's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 5,381
Re: A Financial Thought from an Early ER

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cut-Throat
retiring at 38 is a big risk. Not trying to talk you out of it at all. - In fact congratulations. But that is probably your greatest risk factor.
That's why I'm walking through the downside scenarios and re-defining what "success" means for me. In my situation it can't be having $1 left in the portfolio after 40 years and its not sitting with a 10% withdrawal rate hoping that somehow the market bails me out. But there are other folks here talking about similarly long retirement periods. For them (and anyone planning to rely almost entirely on their portfolio for income) I'd suggest going beyond FIRECalc's definition of "success" and try to imagine how your life would unfold year-by-year through the 1970's bear market and inflation. I don't think tweaking the WR rate to a level of portfolio survivability captures the reality of what actually happens. Gauzy ideas of returning to work or cutting spending don't really constitute plans unless you actually have figured out how you're going to re-enter the workforce or how much real spending you're actually able to cut. All I'm saying is that if people are thinking that 20% fat in the budget is enough, they may be mistaken.
__________________
Retired early, traveling perpetually.
Gone4Good is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: A Financial Thought from an Early ER
Old 03-04-2007, 07:33 AM   #32
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Gone4Good's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 5,381
Re: A Financial Thought from an Early ER

Quote:
Originally Posted by ESRBob
I'd have to dig up the numbers that I ran for the simulation on page 191 of Work Less Live More, but the graph shows that in constant dollars, retiring in 1965, you are down nearly 40% by 1974, using a 4% of portfolio value withdrawal each year and the 95% Rule.

Seems consistent with what I came up with.

The other idea I was playing with is capping the WR to some level of portfolio yield. That requires less severe reductions in the late 70's because interest rates were so high. It might not be necessary to limit your withdrawals to ~5% in 1980 when the portfolio is yielding ~8%. The problem is, we'll never know what would have worked in a world where the 70's stagflation didn't give way to a 20 year equity boom so maybe greater caution is in order.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ESRBob
The whole portfolio does recover in real terms but it still took 20 years to climb back up to your starting point, and by the 30 year mark you are about 45% ahead of starting point in real terms.
It may go without saying, but its worth pointing out anyway, that when I cap WRs at the portfolio yield (allowing them to go higher than what is allowed under CPR or probably even under the 95% rule) the reductions to your standard of living are smaller, but the subsequent recovery takes a lot longer too.

__________________
Retired early, traveling perpetually.
Gone4Good is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: A Financial Thought from an Early ER
Old 03-04-2007, 09:09 AM   #33
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 162
Re: A Financial Thought from an Early ER

I still think that depending on your situation, a SWR of less than 4% might be preferable to avoid living on the edge or worrying about depleting one's portfolio, etc. While it will delay ER, it could be warranted in these situations, especially if many of them apply:

especially early ER, with upwards of 50+ nonworking years
no pension or retiree health care benefits
family issues (young children, older parents who need help)
unwillingness to relocate to less expensive areas

We have all of the above, which is why I am aiming for 2% SWR. I do not want to cut to the bone or look for work again once I stop.
__________________
firewhen is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: A Financial Thought from an Early ER
Old 03-04-2007, 10:54 AM   #34
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
youbet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 9,965
Re: A Financial Thought from an Early ER

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3 Yrs to Go
Gauzy ideas of returning to work or cutting spending don't really constitute plans unless you actually have figured out how you're going to re-enter the workforce or how much real spending you're actually able to cut.
Yep. That's exactly how I thought about it.

Variables we can't possibly predict turn the planning process into a bit of a crapshoot. How long will I live? Will unanticipated extraordinary expenditures become a factor? Will I live through market conditions that are unusually good or unusually bad? Will I become so miserable working that beginning ER with risk is worth it? Will my tastes in activities and lifestyle change? Will that nice inheritance from mom and dad come through or will they spend it on nursing home care? And so on and so forth.

Everyone needs to understand and prioritize their own risk adversions. We came to understand that depleting our portfolio or reducing spending to the point of significantly changing our lifestyle was something we dreaded. Maintaining our lifestyle but with a 10% withdrawal rate would keep me awake at night. And our fear of dieing with a large residual portfolio is small because we have family (including a grandson with special needs) who we'd love to benefit from anything we leave behind.

We defined FIRE quite conservatively......assumed a less than 4% WR, padded the budget, didn't count the house in total net worth, figured our days of earned income were positively over and that sort of thing. That's what was right for us.

Everyone else has to do it their own way. Do what's right for YOU.

3 Yrs to Go....... we happen to 100% agree that living through a long period of reduced spending, so reduced that you're cutting deeply into things you like to do, would be the pits. Since our jobs weren't too awful, we stayed hitched to the plow to reduce the no-money or low-money risk at the cost of acquiring the shorter/later retirement risk.

You pays your money and you takes your chances. One size does not fit all. We just happen to share your outlook.

__________________
"I wasn't born blue blood. I was born blue-collar." John Wort Hannam
youbet is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: A Financial Thought from an Early ER
Old 03-04-2007, 11:00 AM   #35
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Gone4Good's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 5,381
Re: A Financial Thought from an Early ER

Quote:
Originally Posted by firewhen
We have all of the above, which is why I am aiming for 2% SWR. I do not want to cut to the bone or look for work again once I stop.
IMO, the ability to cut your spending to 2%, or lower, is the critical factor. But a 2% initial WR may not be the optimal solution.

Consider two 1966 retirees, both starting with $2MM. Retiree A opts for a 4% initial withdrawal rate ($80K) while retiree B opts for a 2% withdrawal rate ($40k). Both decide they will cut spending by 10% in any year where their WR would exceed 4.8%. Because of the low initial WR, retiree B never has to cut his spending. Although retiree A has to make several reductions, his worst year leaves him with $42,500 in real spending . . . $2,500 more than Retiree B.

Over a 30 year period, Retiree A has total real spending of $1.7MM whereas Retiree B has total real spending of $1.25MM, 25% less.

I've come to the conclusion that a higher initial WR (for me that means about 3%), coupled with an extremely flexible spending structure yields the best trade off between maximizing my standard of living and minimizing my risk of failure. Your mileage may vary.


(for those wondering, a 3% initial WR using the same details as for Retiree's A & B results in real spending of $44K at the bottom and $1.56MM over a 30-year period . . . about 8% lower than Retiree A but still 25% higher than retiree B).
__________________
Retired early, traveling perpetually.
Gone4Good is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: A Financial Thought from an Early ER
Old 03-04-2007, 11:59 AM   #36
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
youbet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 9,965
Re: A Financial Thought from an Early ER

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3 Yrs to Go

Consider two 1966 retirees, both starting with $2MM. Retiree A opts for a 4% initial withdrawal rate ($80K) while retiree B opts for a 2% withdrawal rate ($40k). Both decide they will cut spending by 10% in any year where their WR would exceed 4.8%. Because of the low initial WR, retiree B never has to cut his spending. Although retiree A has to make several reductions, his worst year leaves him with $42,500 in real spending . . . $2,500 more than Retiree B.
3 Yr to Go...... What about the variable of working longer to increase the size of the portfolio so that spending is equal in absolute terms? That is, 4% of 2 mil = $80K and 2.67% of 3 mil = $80K.

In our planning, we didn't find it possible to half our desired budget (as in your example) and still anticipate a happy RE.
__________________
"I wasn't born blue blood. I was born blue-collar." John Wort Hannam
youbet is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: A Financial Thought from an Early ER
Old 03-04-2007, 12:35 PM   #37
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 162
Re: A Financial Thought from an Early ER

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3 Yrs to Go
IMO, the ability to cut your spending to 2%, or lower, is the critical factor. But a 2% initial WR may not be the optimal solution.
3 Yrs to Go,

I understand what you are saying, but for me it is the opposite direction. I would not be cutting our spending, but having calculated what our reasonable spend rate is, continuing to work and hopefully grow our portfolio to the point where our uncut expenses equal the 2% SWR. Obviously the downside is that I am working past the point where I might otherwise have to, with an enlarged safety net.

Down the road, I could see raising the SWR as expenses drop with the kids leaving the house, the number of future years in ER presumably declining, and the portfolio hopefully growing.

In all likelihood, at 2%, or even 4%, with reasonable returns most portfolios with a strong equity component will grow dramatically over time. All of us face, and seem to fear, the relatively unlikely scenario of a prolonged bad period. It is a question of how much you plan for that.
__________________
firewhen is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: A Financial Thought from an Early ER
Old 03-04-2007, 12:44 PM   #38
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Mesa
Posts: 3,588
Re: A Financial Thought from an Early ER

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveR
. . . If I really have an issue with money then the only course will be consulting...which would be about as attactive to me as cleaning toillets in a public restroom.
I hear that. Friends and colleagues keep trying to convince me to consult. I tried it. It s#cks as far as I'm concerned. Yeah, you can make a lot of money, but the reason I saved and invested all these years is to be free of that need. Actually, I think I would prefer cleaning public restrooms.
__________________
sgeeeee is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: A Financial Thought from an Early ER
Old 03-04-2007, 12:57 PM   #39
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
youbet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 9,965
Re: A Financial Thought from an Early ER

Quote:
Originally Posted by sgeeeee
I hear that. Friends and colleagues keep trying to convince me to consult. I tried it. It s#cks as far as I'm concerned. Yeah, you can make a lot of money, but the reason I saved and invested all these years is to be free of that need. Actually, I think I would prefer cleaning public restrooms.
Gosh sgeeeee I've agreed with you on more items the past few days than in the prior year. Wonder what that means? And I certainly agree here.

Sitting here past noon, still lingering over breakfast coffee, and reading these boards is more fun than if I was sitting here putting together a PP presentation to give a client tomorrow. No interest or desire whatsoever to consult.

Don't misunderstand, I'm not afraid of work. I burned the candle at both ends for years. My family knows that, if necessary, I'd stand on my head in a bucket of sh*t and whistle "Dixie" if I had to in order to support them. Thank goodness It doesn't look like I'll need to.
__________________
"I wasn't born blue blood. I was born blue-collar." John Wort Hannam
youbet is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: A Financial Thought from an Early ER
Old 03-04-2007, 12:59 PM   #40
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
haha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hooverville
Posts: 22,386
Re: A Financial Thought from an Early ER

Quote:
That's why I'm walking through the downside scenarios and re-defining what "success" means for me. In my situation it can't be having $1 left in the portfolio after 40 years and its not sitting with a 10% withdrawal rate hoping that somehow the market bails me out.
This is also exactly how I feel. I modeled this by setting a non-zero floor in Firecalc as my definition of failure. I don't want a 50% drawdown no matter what Firecalc says about whether it will come back or not. To Hell with that!


Someone in real life asked me if I thought working another year or 2 made much difference in retirement survivability. I said no; but I now think that was wrong. It all depends on what you are getting for that initial year or 2, relative to what you already have. If an additional couple of years will get you a good pension, or health care, or let some options vest, or add 20% to your liquid savings, then clearly it will be very helpful.

IMO this likely will be trumped by valuations in the investments that you own, but adding those extra $$ is a more controllable factor than looking for better valuations. If you have 20% more money, you can either withdraw 20% more money initially, or you can increase your security at the original withdrawal rate.

The board seems to be moving toward conservatism lately. Previously there was a lot of “Just do it!” talk. I don’t pretend to know what is best; I suspect it depends on who you are and how you rank things.

Clearly it will never be easier to pile up money than it is at the peak of a lucrative career.



Ha
__________________

__________________
"As a general rule, the more dangerous or inappropriate a conversation, the more interesting it is."-Scott Adams
haha is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Positive Financial Planner stories Empty Pockets FIRE and Money 30 01-12-2007 12:57 PM
Financial Engines feedback Nords FIRE and Money 34 11-18-2006 12:14 PM
How people find us... asian carp?? dory36 Forum Admin 4 05-27-2005 01:07 PM
Financial modeling RedOscar FIRE and Money 3 09-27-2003 12:50 PM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:57 PM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.