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Old 04-13-2018, 02:58 PM   #81
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Agree, it will be hard giving up a fancy BMW. I'm surprised she qualified for the lease. Plus, once you are stuck with one of those, it's not easy to pass the lease back to the dealer without coughing up a lot of bucks.
I'm afraid it won't be all that hard to end the lease. At this rate the OP's SIL will probably be in a default situation by the time the lease expires. The home equity may help but only until the next poor decision.
Given the history it may be best to let her hit rock bottom before any further assistance. Tough call.
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Old 04-13-2018, 03:09 PM   #82
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I see that you are located in the Research Triangle in NC. Does she live there also? There must be tons of jobs for admin. assistants at UNC, Duke, etc. Universities have fairly uniform HR rules on benefits, such as 403(b) participation/matching (nonprofit version of the 401k). Plus they are very strict on Dept. of Labor regs -- so no age discrimination is allowed, at least overtly. If she lives elsewhere, she can likely find similar college/university opportunities locally.

She might consider springing for a complete makeover -- hair (including coloring), makeup, work clothes, so that she appears 10 years younger. Perhaps she could hire a professional consultant on this stuff and who would also help get her prepped for the job hunt. It would be worthwhile investment. Also, if she can hide her age on the resume -- this might help; but it is a often-used tactic and can be identified usually.

I took a quick look at the non-faculty/non professional jobs at UNC/Chapel Hill just now and found quite a few jobs she might be qualified for. For example, this one:

https://unc.peopleadmin.com/postings/138291

It's permanent, normal business hours, working in the school of nursing supporting an assistant dean, and has a salary band of $38,988 - $50,173, with minimum only of a high school diploma (or equivalent) and one year working in an office. There are many managers who would value a mature employee who can demonstrate the gold standard qualities of always showing up on time, being proactive (looking for ways to make his/her boss's job easier), highly professional, upbeat & positive attitude, and strictly focused on the job all day.

I saw on the UNC jobs page that there are temporary positions also available. These are an obvious potential door to a permanent job.

By the way, one excellent strategy would be for her to look at the directories of staff at some of these institutions, locate the admin. assistant -- usually shown by name and contact info in the office listing for the head person, and call him/her and ask for an information interview. Say that she is wants to work at (institution name here) in a similar role and would love a chance to ask a few questions. Perhaps over a coffee.

The large institutions are the way to go, in my mind. But you have to really work at it to find the jobs and apply for them. Hope this helps.

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Old 04-13-2018, 03:24 PM   #83
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Op here, she does not live in the CH-Raleigh area. She lives about 1.5 hours west, which should be a much cheaper area of the state to live in but less jobs.

Good idea about the make over. She does keep her hair colored, etc and actually looks younger than age 62. But I think that employers always ask her age.

She has a job interview today at a ladies clothing store, interested to see what happens there. She does have some retail experience from a few years ago. She got a second job working at a department store for a few years when she was behind on her cc payments.
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Old 04-15-2018, 11:11 AM   #84
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OP here, we have suggested SIL look into getting out of her lease and getting a cheaper place. We have also suggested getting a roommate. She had roommate at one time and she didn't like it.
That would be enough for me. I don't see any point in wasting time giving her advice that she has no intention of following.

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Old 04-15-2018, 10:51 PM   #85
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Op here, she does not live in the CH-Raleigh area. She lives about 1.5 hours west, which should be a much cheaper area of the state to live in but less jobs.

Good idea about the make over. She does keep her hair colored, etc and actually looks younger than age 62. But I think that employers always ask her age.

She has a job interview today at a ladies clothing store, interested to see what happens there. She does have some retail experience from a few years ago. She got a second job working at a department store for a few years when she was behind on her cc payments.
Actually, other than asking if she's over 18, they should never ask her age until an offer has been extended and accepted.

A $30K/year administrative job with a city/county/school district that has health benefits and a retirement plan is likely to be a much better payout than a retail job.
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Old 04-15-2018, 11:27 PM   #86
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Old 04-16-2018, 07:52 AM   #87
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Actually, other than asking if she's over 18, they should never ask her age until an offer has been extended and accepted.

A $30K/year administrative job with a city/county/school district that has health benefits and a retirement plan is likely to be a much better payout than a retail job.
OP here-- SIS says most employers require you to fill out an online application and most of the applications asked date of birth and if you leave that blank your application is rejected. Anyway she says that once she gets to the interview stage it is obvious she is 55 plus.

An administrative job would be much better but she has not gotten any offers even though she has applied for MANY admin jobs. She does not have a college degree (just some community college) so that hurts her.

She had the retail job interview Friday, thinks the interview went well but she has not gotten job offer yet and it is only 30 hours so they don't have to pay benefits but it would be something.
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Old 04-16-2018, 08:13 AM   #88
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OP here-- SIS says most employers require you to fill out an online application and most of the applications asked date of birth and if you leave that blank your application is rejected. Anyway she says that once she gets to the interview stage it is obvious she is 55 plus.
Someone is lying here. Granted, age discrimination, in SUBTLE but real form, is alive and well in the hiring process. But an online job application asking for date of birth? That's been illegal for decades.
I'm not sure what to believe anymore in this interesting thread. I'll echo some other replies that this SIL likely doesn't really want practical help/advice. Leave her to her own devices and be done with it.
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Old 04-16-2018, 08:16 AM   #89
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....But an online job application asking for date of birth? That's been illegal for decades. ....
Now, who is making up stuff.

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There is no law that prohibits an employer from asking date of birth (DOB) from an applicant or employee.
https://www.shrm.org/resourcesandtoo...teofbirth.aspx
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Old 04-16-2018, 08:29 AM   #90
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I stand corrected. That's been my understanding....for decades and I confess I did not double check before my post. I suspect, but frankly don't have time to do internet search, it could be illegal in my neck of the woods (NY/NJ). In any event, I have not seen that question ever, in my career. So at minimum, I highly doubt this SIL is seeing that question on all or even most of the applications.
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Old 04-16-2018, 08:32 AM   #91
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I actually thought that you were right, but checked just because I was curious.
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Old 04-16-2018, 08:37 AM   #92
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OP here I looked at several of the online applications for employment and they all asked for DOB. My brief research is that is NOT illegal and is very commonplace. My SIS may be a lot of things but I do not think she is a lier. It is just very difficult for a senior citizen to find a job. My purpose on this thread was to find help for SIS. I have found many helpful suggestions that I have passed onto SIS.

I will just ignore the unhelpful suggestions (like the one suggesting SIS is lying).
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Old 04-16-2018, 07:58 PM   #93
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OP here-- SIS says most employers require you to fill out an online application and most of the applications asked date of birth and if you leave that blank your application is rejected. Anyway she says that once she gets to the interview stage it is obvious she is 55 plus.

An administrative job would be much better but she has not gotten any offers even though she has applied for MANY admin jobs. She does not have a college degree (just some community college) so that hurts her.

She had the retail job interview Friday, thinks the interview went well but she has not gotten job offer yet and it is only 30 hours so they don't have to pay benefits but it would be something.
The applications are reviewed before the person is called. The age and education are usually known before the interview. Do any of the local governments offer any job placement assistance and/or training for interviews? Someone who has experience in coaching the unemployed for interviews may be able to do a better job preparing SIS.
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Old 04-16-2018, 08:17 PM   #94
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OP here, good idea about coaching/training for interviews. The Senior Center in my town has interview training for Seniors. I will suggest SIL look into that in the area where she lives.
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Old 04-17-2018, 05:26 AM   #95
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The usual reason given for asking DOB is to ensure the applicant is of legal working age (child labor laws). Same as FB, etc. asks your DOB so they have legal proof you said you were over age 13.

I don't know why they don't just ask you to check a box saying "I am over age XX."

It's true that people will see how old we are when we walk in the door. And age discrimination - heck, pure age dislike - is, sadly, a thing. Nevertheless, if you possess needed skills and a track record, that is probably going to outweigh a few lines and gray hairs.

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OP here I looked at several of the online applications for employment and they all asked for DOB. My brief research is that is NOT illegal and is very commonplace. My SIS may be a lot of things but I do not think she is a lier. It is just very difficult for a senior citizen to find a job. My purpose on this thread was to find help for SIS. I have found many helpful suggestions that I have passed onto SIS.

I will just ignore the unhelpful suggestions (like the one suggesting SIS is lying).
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Old 04-17-2018, 05:34 AM   #96
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Apparently this varies with geography.
I got curious so I asked a few local employers I know and they all said their job application forms just have a checkbox for the person to say they are over 18.
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Old 04-17-2018, 01:28 PM   #97
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As part of my job at a local university, in late 2017 I needed to fill a role for a Program Director. The role included being an official manager of people with graduate degrees, but other than that it was really a jack of all trades, willing to do anything and everything since the group is off site, an island of sorts. The tasks of everyone who worked for the Program Director were really defined by other technical people, so what we really needed was someone reliable and conscientious. Show up every day and not mind doing some grunt work.

The ad required a BS degree and experience supervising people. Since most of the group is grad students who haven't held a "real job", they are going through school, we actually preferred someone mature, at least 40s if not older. We got somewhere around 50 applicants that met the basic qualifications. Some of those were not only overqualified but had salaries that were 2-3x what we would pay. Ended up hiring a late 40s woman with a non technical degree and she is doing great. Interviewed 3 others in the same age range (2 with technical degrees, this is in the engineering college with all engineering educated workers) who were chomping at the bit for the spot, despite a salary of about $50K, albeit with decent benefits.

I keep reading how low the unemployment rate is (some of the applicants were employed/underemployed, but some were not), but this position and a couple of others I had to fill a couple of years ago had ample applicants, it was no problem to find well qualified people despite the low salary for those with a BS engineering and 20 years.

The more I think about it, I'm not aware of any jobs being advertised in our college during recent times, say past 10 years, that didn't require a BS of some sort, even if it was a low level position. One of the admins filing expense reports has a BS in English. Another doing some financial tracking a BS in History.
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Old 04-17-2018, 01:38 PM   #98
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A local major oil company here won't hire anyone without a 4 year college degree. That includes office staff, tech people, oil & gas accounting admin., etc. I can verify this because the VP of HR is my best friend.
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Old 04-17-2018, 01:39 PM   #99
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Oldphd, thanks for your post. I too think the low unemployment rates are misleading. SIL does not have any college degree. I think I posted earlier I thought she had some community college but I was wrong, she went to work as a secretary straight from high school in the mid 70s and never attended any college courses. DH says their family had no money to send any of the children to college. DH got a college degree but had to work and borrow money for college. I remember it took us 10 years to pay off his college loans. So SIL has at least 2 strikes against her--age 62 and no college degree.
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Old 04-17-2018, 01:55 PM   #100
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... The more I think about it, I'm not aware of any jobs being advertised in our college during recent times, say past 10 years, that didn't require a BS of some sort, even if it was a low level position. One of the admins filing expense reports has a BS in English. Another doing some financial tracking a BS in History.
There is plenty of laziness in the hiring process and a good dose of CYA. Requiring a college degree serves both purposes; it biases at least slightly for a higher quality person and it provides an excuse if the person doesn't work out.

This will only get worse as "the system" has decided to emphasize producing college graduates based on the historical fact that college graduates have higher paying jobs. The logical flaw, though, is that an increasing the number of college graduates does not cause an increasing number of higher-paying jobs. Hence, the "surplus" of unneeded graduates (especially the non-utilitarian degrees like History, English, Women's studies, etc) will increasingly displace non-degreed employees in jobs where a degree is completely unnecessary. A degree will be "required" simply because of laziness and CYA. "Will that be a Venti or a Grande, sir?"
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