Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 02-22-2012, 07:30 AM   #21
Moderator
MichaelB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Just chillin' down by the river
Posts: 14,961
Quote:
Originally Posted by REWahoo View Post
I'm not sure I can agree with your "elite community" comment - after all, they let me in.
.
Well, they definitely lowered their standards because they let me in as well. Still, I seem to be the one of the few that have seen their customer service stumble, three times now, all with homeowners insurance. Still a banking customer, and based on my most recent brick and mortar banking experience (Wells Fargo) that isn't going to change.
__________________

__________________
So far so good
MichaelB is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 02-22-2012, 08:09 AM   #22
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 8,990
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katsmeow View Post
Based on your name...is your sister perhaps in Texas? Texas has many restrictions on anything that is considered a home equity loan such as a cash out refinance. Once you do a cash out refinance my understanding is that all future refinances of that property -- even if you don't take out money -- are considered as subject to home equity loan rules under Texas law and are treated as if they were cash out refinances (even if no cash comes out).

In some research I was recently doing I came across something indicating that Penfed doesn't do Texas home equity loans because it doesn't want to have to deal with the Texas requirements. (Don't know if that is true or not but it is what I read).

Yes, my sister is in Texas.... heck, maybe she is the reason they do not want to do refis in Texas...

My main point was they knew this upfront. It was not hidden. Yet they had my sister do all the stuff needed to get a new loan with all the fees. Heck, they even paid off her old loan!! It was only after all that they told her they do not do a refi with cash out in Texas.

If they knew about the rules, then they should have told her upfront and saved her the aggravation. And when they did find out they made a mistake, they should have bent over backwards to help fix the problem and not try and put it all on my sister.
__________________

__________________
Texas Proud is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2012, 07:26 PM   #23
Moderator Emeritus
Nords's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Oahu
Posts: 26,375
Quote:
Originally Posted by East Texas View Post
I think all of us stood back and watched the enlisted swelling the ranks of the USAA membership to see if it would have any impact on anyone who has been a long term member. I haven't been impacted at all. USAA isn't going to put up with bad business so no matter what the eligibility. If someone is an underwriting or financial risk to the membership, they're out. Same with an employee. If any employee breaks one of the core values and they're fired.
I still believe USAA membership is an elite community. I believe they try their best to do the right thing at the right time for the right reason. USAA makes it easy for me to do business with them and that has value.
I'm sure that the enlisted community hesitated a long time before signing on to an organization filled with and run by officers. After all, how'd that work out for them last time?

I can't claim to be totally without bias, but USAA's marketing staff says that the last million of their eight million members have been collectively better behaved than the first seven million. Fewer foreclosures, fewer fraud cases, fewer delinquent policies... better on all financial behaviors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by REWahoo View Post
I'm not sure I can agree with your "elite community" comment - after all, they let me in.
Beat me to it!

Speaking of insurance, USAA just re-started issuing policies to Hawaii owners of existing homes. I'm currently paying about $1000/year to Armed Forces Insurance, which admittedly has their own concerns for being adequately capitalized & re-insured. But USAA wouldn't touch my policy for less than $5000/year. They didn't seem to be trying very hard, either.
__________________
*
*

The book written on E-R.org, "The Military Guide to Financial Independence and Retirement", on sale now! For more info see "About Me" in my profile.
I don't spend much time here anymore, so please send me a PM. Thanks.
Nords is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2012, 09:36 PM   #24
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 746
I remember hearing the stories when USAA first created the subsidiary company for former dependents. Some of the officers were screaming took offense to to the expanded eligibility. Their kids, of course, were way above standard and deserved to be with USAA. All those other kids would bring down the Association. Underwriting guidelines were even tighter back then so it wasn't a given Junior could easily slide in under Daddy's or Mom's membership. And the ex-dependents did not enjoy the same world-wide coverage as the USAA members. I think that's changed a bit.

Quote:
I'm sure that the enlisted community hesitated a long time before signing on to an organization filled with and run by officers. After all, how'd that work out for them last time?
__________________
East Texas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2012, 12:53 PM   #25
Full time employment: Posting here.
MikeD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Leesburg, VA
Posts: 761
Add me to the disenchanted-with-PenFed list. They screwed up a bunch of stuff with my switching to the new rewards credit card, three months in a row, gave me the silent treatment (literally - silence on their end of the phone as a response), got snotty, then, repeated, FIVE TIMES word for word, the same sentences including two more times after I told them I understood and asked them to stop. I will pretty much do whatever it takes to get the $250.00 reward card and then NEVER AGAIN. I am very happy with NAVY FCU and Nasa FCU.

Mike D.
__________________
I just want to celebrate another day of livin'
I just want to celebrate another day of life

- R. Earth
MikeD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2012, 01:05 PM   #26
Moderator
Sarah in SC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 11,116
Psssst....Mike....Chase Sapphire Preferred.
That's what I switched to, though I'll grab that same thing with PenFed before I bail completely.
__________________
“One day your life will flash before your eyes. Make sure it's worth watching.”
Gerard Arthur Way

Sarah in SC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2012, 01:10 PM   #27
Full time employment: Posting here.
MikeD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Leesburg, VA
Posts: 761
Thanks, Sarah, I take a look at them.

Mike D.
__________________
I just want to celebrate another day of livin'
I just want to celebrate another day of life

- R. Earth
MikeD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2012, 10:45 PM   #28
Moderator Emeritus
Nords's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Oahu
Posts: 26,375
As mentioned earlier, a couple of the posters have suggested that I give PenFed another chance at starting up an account for Dad with me as conservator.

I've mailed off a snail-mail letter to PenFed's Alexandria address with copies of the letter from their Eugene branch, and an updated copy of my conservator's letter. I didn't address it to anyone in particular like "CEO", but we'll see how they do.
__________________
*
*

The book written on E-R.org, "The Military Guide to Financial Independence and Retirement", on sale now! For more info see "About Me" in my profile.
I don't spend much time here anymore, so please send me a PM. Thanks.
Nords is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2012, 12:28 AM   #29
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 246
As posted about a year ago (at the time), I also had a very bad PenFed experience.

We had a 3 year CD of around $60K which we started when we joined. I sent in the paperwork and forms. I went online periodically to look at the balance, but had no other transactions.

One day I go online and the account has no money in it! So after a bunch of calls and emails, they had "escheated" the account, which means it had gone dormant! They had my correct address but mis-entered the zip by a digit and had my city in a neighboring city. Even though they had my email and I had logged on only a couple of months earlier, they had closed the account and were preparing to send my money to the state!

It was only luck that got it reversed as the transfer had not yet occurred. They later admitted that it was an error. I still have that account with PenFed, and at least annually I transfer a few $$ into the share account to keep it active. But I view them with a bit of suspicion and keep my eyes on them like a hawk.
__________________
Surfdaddy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2012, 05:08 AM   #30
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Pullman
Posts: 656
There was an article in WSJ about a month ago advising readers to be aware many states had shorten the time and tightened reasons requiring financial and others holding property to turn assets over to state (escheatment).
Article advised increasing personal discipline in visiting safe deposit boxes at least annually, as well as creating some sort of active interaction on all financial positions(eg voting proxies, funds transfers, etc).
This need may be particularly relevant for those with older parents who may have forgotten accounts. I had to reclaim a sizable demutualization payment owed my deceased mother from AZ despite her having mail forwarding of record and paying state income tax--hardly missing.
Nwsteve
__________________
nwsteve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2012, 08:48 AM   #31
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Mulligan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 3,748
Quote:
Originally Posted by nwsteve
There was an article in WSJ about a month ago advising readers to be aware many states had shorten the time and tightened reasons requiring financial and others holding property to turn assets over to state (escheatment).
Article advised increasing personal discipline in visiting safe deposit boxes at least annually, as well as creating some sort of active interaction on all financial positions(eg voting proxies, funds transfers, etc).
This need may be particularly relevant for those with older parents who may have forgotten accounts. I had to reclaim a sizable demutualization payment owed my deceased mother from AZ despite her having mail forwarding of record and paying state income tax--hardly missing.
Nwsteve
That word "escheatment" seems very appropriate to its actions of trying to cheat you out of your money and give it to the state. I got a long inactive account of over 15 years in a bank across the state. I have no online access to the CDs or Roth. I will make sure to check my quarterly mailed statements closely.
__________________
Mulligan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2012, 12:43 PM   #32
Moderator Emeritus
Nords's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Oahu
Posts: 26,375
Quote:
Originally Posted by nwsteve View Post
Article advised increasing personal discipline in visiting safe deposit boxes at least annually, as well as creating some sort of active interaction on all financial positions(eg voting proxies, funds transfers, etc).
This need may be particularly relevant for those with older parents who may have forgotten accounts. I had to reclaim a sizable demutualization payment owed my deceased mother from AZ despite her having mail forwarding of record and paying state income tax--hardly missing.
Another problem is changes of address.

At first I had my Dad's local post office just forward his mail. Of course that's only good for a few months, but I was reasonably confident that I was getting all of the mail that the USPS got. When I changed my Dad's mailing address to Hawaii (using the USPS system), then some of the correspondence dropped off due to "do not forward" statements on the envelopes. (Yeah, I don't understand the difference either.) I had to track those companies down one at a time to change the old address to the new.

Ironically, all of Dad's unsolicited mail and magazines immediately made the switch. In fact, since the USPS sells the change-of-address information, his bulk mail made a prompt jump in quantity.

My Dad and my college daughter each get more mail in "my" mailbox than my spouse and I combined.
__________________
*
*

The book written on E-R.org, "The Military Guide to Financial Independence and Retirement", on sale now! For more info see "About Me" in my profile.
I don't spend much time here anymore, so please send me a PM. Thanks.
Nords is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2012, 08:34 PM   #33
Moderator Emeritus
Nords's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Oahu
Posts: 26,375
Here's the text of the letter I wrote to PenFed:
Quote:

To: Pentagon Federal Credit Union
Box 1432
Alexandria, VA 22313-2032

Subj: Opening a CD account as a conservator

PenFed,

I'm the conservator for my father, and I've been seeking better CD rates for his fixed-income asset allocation. I've been a happy PenFed CD customer for several years, so I decided to open an account for Dad. Several months ago I mailed my court appointment and my conservator's letter to the Eugene branch and asked to have an account set up in my father's name.

To my surprise, I received the enclosed letter from Mr. ... It asked me to complete section 4A of the application as "Guardian" and "joint owner". I can't do that. My father is technically a ward, but I'm his conservator. (My brother is Dad's guardian.) I am not joint owner of any of Dad's assets-- I'm only investing them for him. With other financial institutions, I've been given a separate account in the name of Dean Nordman with authorized access under his login (as conservator) or with my own login. At these institutions, I've signed the applications as "Doug Nordman, Conservator".

I was a little confused by Mr. ...'s request for an "original notarized copy of the court documents appointing me as Guardian". I've already sent PenFed the court order and my conservator's letter of appointment from the Denver probate court. It's based on the order of the probate judge, and the letter of appointment is signed by the clerk of the court. The court did not distribute an "original notarized copy of the court documents", and frankly "original copy" sounds a little contradictory. I've provided everything that I was given by the court. I don't have what Mr. ... is asking for, and I'm not sure that it can be obtained.

When I called Mr. ... to discuss these questions, he told me "This is the way we do it" and "The probate court doesn't care". He also pointed out that my appointment letter expired in a few months and that he wouldn't be able to accept it. I didn't care to explain to him that the Denver probate court re-issues annual appointment letters to ensure that conservators file their annual reports.

During this discouraging conversation, I decided that I wasn't comfortable working with Mr. ... However in March a good friend of mine relayed my story to a PenFed customer service department and suggested that I might hear from PenFed. Now that some time has passed without any response from PenFed, perhaps it's worth trying this again.

Based on the "guardian" error in Mr. Vogt's PenFed letter, there may be some confusion over the nature of my appointment and the authority of a court order. I'd appreciate it if you'd figure out a way for me to open a share account in the name of my father with me as conservator. When the account is open, I'd like to electronically transfer funds from Dad's Fidelity brokerage account and buy CDs.

The probate court has approved my conservator's report and issued a new letter effective through April 2013. I've enclosed a copy. I expect to receive these letters each year in February or March, and if necessary I'm happy to provide updated copies for PenFed's files.

Please let me know how you'd like to proceed. Thanks,
Here's the response from a "Research Analyst" in the Accounts Servicing Branch.

Quote:
This is in response to recent correspondence regarding establishing an account for your father and adding you as the conservator of that account.

Please be advised that the enclosed Membership Application must be completed in the name of your father. It is not necessary for you to sign as the joint owner, unless this is what you and your father elect to do. We do however require the Letters of Conservatorship to be certified/notarized per our legal department.
Just in case I was having trouble parsing PenFed's response, my conservator's appointment letter was returned with a little strip of paper stapled to it:
Quote:
Please have this document stamped by a notary public certifying it was copied from the original letter of conservatorship.
I apparently don't understand what a notary does to legitimize a piece of paper that pops out of my scanner/printer, or the ones that pop out of the printers at the probate court. Maybe I should take my hardware to the notary, too, and just have them certify that they're capable of making copies of original documents.

I think I've given PenFed more than enough opportunities to understand what I want to do. I think I'm being told that I'm not the kind of customer that they want to service. I certainly did not receive this type of treatment from American National Bank (a Colorado regional bank) or USAA. Of course PenFed pays slightly higher CD rates than USAA (and a lot higher than ANB), but it's no longer worth the pain.

I guess the good news with PenFed is that they've displayed their true abilities in this manner well in advance of my giving them any of Dad's money, instead of having this problem crop up later... "later" as in "every year that I get a new appointment letter from the probate court".

Tomorrow I'm going to send a fresh copy of my letter to Navy Federal Credit Union. Let's see how NFCU does... maybe in another 3-4 months those ANB CDs will be lookin' pretty hot by comparison.

"What do I do all freakin' day" indeed...
__________________
*
*

The book written on E-R.org, "The Military Guide to Financial Independence and Retirement", on sale now! For more info see "About Me" in my profile.
I don't spend much time here anymore, so please send me a PM. Thanks.
Nords is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2012, 09:47 PM   #34
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Pullman
Posts: 656
Geeze Nords, if I hadn't checked the title of your thread, I would have thought this was a "conversation" with a Vanguard CSR regarding a request beyond "vanilla". :-)
(see 72t thread)
;-)
Nw
__________________
nwsteve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2012, 10:11 PM   #35
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Katsmeow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,655
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nords View Post

I apparently don't understand what a notary does to legitimize a piece of paper that pops out of my scanner/printer, or the ones that pop out of the printers at the probate court.
This probably varies according to each state in terms of what it is called. But, around here, what you would probably be asking for from the court (or the court clerk) would be a certified copy.

That is a copy which the court clerk certifies to be a real copy of the original.
__________________
Katsmeow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2012, 10:21 PM   #36
Moderator Emeritus
Nords's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Oahu
Posts: 26,375
Quote:
Originally Posted by nwsteve View Post
Geeze Nords, if I hadn't checked the title of your thread, I would have thought this was a "conversation" with a Vanguard CSR regarding a request beyond "vanilla". :-)
(see 72t thread)
;-)
Nw
Yep. And if that poster had continued with Vanguard, they would have made him notarize all his account statements, too!

I was treated so well by USAA that I let myself get all giddy with excitement and go for broke with PenFed. Between our Nords ER CD ladder and our daughter's college fund at PenFed, we've entrusted those guys with a pretty significant slice of our net worth. Apparently that's not gonna happen with Dad's money.

Joking aside, I was hoping that PenFed would just do the conservator account setup and turn me over to their website. This is what I get for doing the right thing instead of just forging my father's signature on the applications.

I've been using USAA's website for CDs for the last few months and it's been painless. As you know from at least one other of my PenFed threads (Whaddaya DO all day: PenFed mortgage refinance), the worst part of PenFed's customer-service experience is having to deal with their customer-service staff.

Hence my lack of sympathy for those who get exactly the Vanguard customer service that they're paying for.
__________________
*
*

The book written on E-R.org, "The Military Guide to Financial Independence and Retirement", on sale now! For more info see "About Me" in my profile.
I don't spend much time here anymore, so please send me a PM. Thanks.
Nords is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2012, 06:01 AM   #37
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
braumeister's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 3,669
Sorry you've had to put up with all this.
My experience with PenFed over the last 29 years has been great. A few problems, but every time I've spoken to someone on the phone they have been unfailingly polite, professional, and friendly. Never any need for a second phone call. Maybe I was just lucky.

To avoid the sort of situation you're in, I was also lucky from the start. When my mother decided she was no longer ambitious enough to handle her own finances, she asked me to just take them over and pay her bills for her. I set up joint accounts in her name as primary and me as joint tenant with right of survivorship at PenFed and Fidelity. Smooth sailing. Your setup is more complicated than I would have had patience for, so I feel for you.
__________________
braumeister is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2012, 09:07 AM   #38
Full time employment: Posting here.
friar1610's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 612
Quote:
Originally Posted by brewer12345 View Post
Nords, I would send a letter to the president of the credit union. They should know about this.

You are making me glad I found a backdoor to sneak into Navy Fed.
Interesting comment, Brewer. My wife and I are thinking about relocating during the next year or so and I've been doing a bit of preliminary research on mortgages on the web. The main sites I have looked at were NFCU and PenFed. I've had two mortgages with NFCU in the past (the latter one re-fi'd twice) and use them as my primary "bank" for all other financial services. I've had a few CDs with PenFed but nothing else. My satisfaction level with NFCU has been pretty high over 40+ years of dealing with them. So I guess it'll make sense for me to stick with them if I go through with this.
__________________
friar1610
friar1610 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2012, 09:14 AM   #39
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
brewer12345's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 15,315
Quote:
Originally Posted by friar1610 View Post
Interesting comment, Brewer. My wife and I are thinking about relocating during the next year or so and I've been doing a bit of preliminary research on mortgages on the web. The main sites I have looked at were NFCU and PenFed. I've had two mortgages with NFCU in the past (the latter one re-fi'd twice) and use them as my primary "bank" for all other financial services. I've had a few CDs with PenFed but nothing else. My satisfaction level with NFCU has been pretty high over 40+ years of dealing with them. So I guess it'll make sense for me to stick with them if I go through with this.
Navy seems to be slightly more old fashioned and perhaps a bit stuck in the mud, but I had no complaints with the CDs I opened a couple years ago or the auto loan I did early this year. I will keep using both, especially as Pen Fed makes the occasional mistake to my benefit, like the 10 year 5% CD fiasco of a couple years ago.
__________________
This post has been approved by the NSA. Carry on.
brewer12345 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2012, 10:34 AM   #40
Moderator Emeritus
Nords's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Oahu
Posts: 26,375
Quote:
Originally Posted by friar1610 View Post
Interesting comment, Brewer. My wife and I are thinking about relocating during the next year or so and I've been doing a bit of preliminary research on mortgages on the web. The main sites I have looked at were NFCU and PenFed.
I see them as the banking version of the dichotomy of Fidelity and Vanguard.

If I want service then I go with NFCU, but I either pay more or earn less.

If I want to earn more (or pay less) then I go with PenFed, but I don't expect any service.

However the analogy breaks down because not even Vanguard is this bad. Lately I've been even more unpleasantly surprised with the penalty of PenFed's hassle factor. The more I can do through their website, and the less through any of their customer service reps, the happier I am.

It's one thing for a mortgage lender or a banker to overlook something, either through overwork or ignorance or by sheer accident. It's another thing entirely for them to actively screw up the process...
__________________

__________________
*
*

The book written on E-R.org, "The Military Guide to Financial Independence and Retirement", on sale now! For more info see "About Me" in my profile.
I don't spend much time here anymore, so please send me a PM. Thanks.
Nords is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
PenFed Platinum Cash Rewards Card is changing Sue J FIRE and Money 24 03-02-2012 12:40 PM
Possibly Another Case of...... DFW_M5 Health and Early Retirement 8 02-12-2012 06:24 PM
Worse customer service ever Texas Proud Other topics 5 02-06-2012 08:18 PM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:42 AM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Early Retirement News right to your Email!

Stay up-to-date with all the latest news to your inbox!

unsusbcribe at anytime with one click

Close [X]