Any advice on college aid with substantial assets?

[RE2Boys]

Your comments are in a quote in red... but I just wanted to post something...

From what I can see... if you do not have any tax liability then the college credit is only $1,000.... at least that is all I see on my estimated return...

Yes, of the $2500 maximum American Opportunity Credit, up to $1500 is used to reduce your tax liability (non-refundable credit), and up to $1000 is a refundable credit, similar to the earned income tax credit, where you can get back more than you paid in.

 

[Quest4Fire]

Same for me... but I made DS take the unsubsidized loan as I DO want him to have skin in the game... and the total cost of interest will not be that big of deal in the long run...

I also think he will exceed what I said I will pay for his degree... so I want him to get loans from the beginning and be aware of what he is spending...

+1. Maybe they think more about dropping a course and losing dough, only to have to pay again later. I waited a couple weeks and borrowed the books from the dropees that could afford to do this.


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[athena53]

Finally, what is a co-op program and is it only applicable to engineering/IT students?

I can answer only for U. of Cincinnati, but- you go to school the first year like anyone else. After that you work one quarter or semester, then go to school one quarter/semester. The work is at an employer you find with the help of the school; they agree to pay you a decent compensation and give you more responsibilities as you progress, so it's far more stable and rigorous than a series of internships. All the co-op students I knew stayed with the same company every year. The school regularly gets feedback and makes sure the work relationship is going well. It's a 5-year program but the student comes out with highly relevant experience and usually an offer from the co-op employer.

In Dad's time it was only Engineering. It's been greatly expanded to include Business and other majors. Disney hires UC co-OP's; the FedEx logo was even designed by a UC co-op student.

 

[Potstickers]

There are two major financial aid formulas used in the US: FAFSA, used by virtually all schools, and Profile, used by many well-known private and a handful of public universities.

FAFSA is a formula that is based primarily on the income (less reliance on assets) of the custodial parent(s) and the student. The resulting value may qualify a student for a Pell Grant (typically only if the family income is rather low) and qualifies most students for a federal student loan. Colleges may also choose to use the FAFSA EFC to determine which students get federal work study, SEOG grants, and Perkins loan funds, but these are under the college's discretion as to how they're allocated.

There are a number of strategies one could use to minimize the FAFSA EFC, but in many cases it simply doesn't matter. For example, at my state flagship, even with a Cost of Attendance of around $30K, students with a $17K EFC rarely get any aid other than a student loan. A family that tries to engineer an EFC drop from $32K to $25K at best ends up with a small subsidized loan.

And, some of the very things that can help at a FAFSA-only school don't help at all if your student attends one of the schools that uses the much more in-depth Profile form. Many tips and tricks I read about simply do not work in the Profile context.

Rather than trying to play games with financial aid, you might encourage your kids to seek out schools with relatively larger merit awards for students with stats like theirs, or schools that are simply less expensive from the start.

 

[Texas Proud]

Just another point in this discussion...

They do not care if you are not the parent... my DS is really a step son... I never adopted him, but FAFSA does not care... I had to put my info down... it counted against him even if I was not going to pay...

And all stepdads do not pay... one of my DWs friends get remarried a few years ago and her husband refuses to pay for her daughters education... but all his assets had to be listed (I really do not know if they did as we did not ask, just saying if they filled it out right they would be).... also, since her real father is still alive his assets should be listed...

 

[aida2003]

I have seen families of moderate means hire consultants and pay them money that could have been better used on college tuition. But some parents who did not go to college really worry about these kinds of things and fear doing the wrong thing. Unfortunately, they sometimes get scammed.

I think very very few wealthy families hire consultants and they get scammed always.

It's a great point. When I read articles about private college consultants and their 'successes' helping families, I have a hard time reconciling the value of such 'services' vs. saving that money and paying for college. I think it's similar to investments managers managing your money and you believing that you get more value from such services. Some people really need hand holding. Others who could do themselves still choose to hire such a manager because they think they'll get additional value as their friends and acquaintances do the same, media says to do so too. As the popularity of college consultants grows and media embellishes their useful services perception starts to shift among parents and more people will hire them still.

PS. LOL and Reb2Boys, thank you for your responses to my questions. It was helpful to get a 'shortcut' answer from real people vs. trying to read article after article about FAFSA on Google.

 

[Potstickers]

I am one of those college consultants.

However, I don't focus on trying to help families "game" the system. Instead, the real value is in helping families and students understand which colleges are likely to be better financial fits because I understand the rules.

For example, there are a relative handful of elite private colleges that will not ask for the non-custodial parent's income/assets. In the case of a student where the parents are divorced and the non-custodial parent isn't willing to supply information or funding for college, it is important that the student not focus on the colleges that simply aren't going to work financially, and instead focus on those that will.

Every year I meet many parents who are surprised to learn how financial aid does or doesn't work and how it varies on a college-by-college basis. Clarifying those issues BEFORE students build college lists avoids a lot of tears.

Yes, the inheritance mom received when her dad died is an asset for financial aid, even though dad wanted her to use it for a dream vacation.

Yes, the family vacation cabin is an asset for financial aid purposes even though it has been in the family for fifty years.

Yes, if a divorced parent remarries the income and assets of the new spouse will be incorporated into the FAFSA calculation if the student lives with that parent...but some private schools using Profile will instead look only to the income/assets of the two biological parents.

No, Suzy will not get a merit scholarship from MIT. They only give financial aid.

Yes, there is a way to request a waiver of non-custodial data in cases where there has been domestic violence or sexual abuse or long-term absence of a parent. No, just because a parent is unwilling to pay for college doesn't mean that colleges will offer financial aid.

No, you can't gain in-state tuition at most public universities by moving to that state and having your parents not claim you on their income tax return.

Just because your financial aid form shows that you have a lot of financial need doesn't mean that all (or most) colleges will give you enough aid to meet that need.

There is a lot of misinformation out there, and a lot of life insurance salespeople selling wonky products in the guise of college planning. And a whole lot of misleading news articles.

 

[RE2Boys]

Welcome to the forum Potstickers! I noted that your only posts to date are within this thread. We're always learning new viewpoints regarding our financial lives and hope to hear your voice more frequently.

Do you get into advising on 529 plans? I just recently moved most of my sons' 529 plan to the Colorado Stable Value offering. One just started college a week ago, the next is only a year away and decided to reduce volatility of the investments.

Again, welcome aboard!

 

[kgtest]

I never went to college. MOST of my friends did and some of those graduated...even less got the MBA. I have little college but seem to have a fairly high earning potential FOR NOW...

I have what my 'ole man calls 'street smarts' and therefore he never offered to pay for much. He bought my first semester's books, and loaned me the money for tuition at a CC. When I soon realized working at Wal-Mart would not get me through college...I dropped out of college.

FF, today I'm doing better than both my siblings in terms of earnings. Both have MBAs so I don't quite see the necessity but I am highly technical. Self-taught with some college course work here and there.

I wouldn't recommend that approach as it was a tough journey from my perspective compared to my peers in universities...alas now they are paying their loans back and I am investing in stocks.

I have a 529 setup for my kid, no way in hell I'm gonna leave my first born high and dry. I'm third born so I think my ole man was like screw it aint no way I'm paying for all 3 college. My sisters got little help as well. We all work for MegaCorp...fun times.


I think the 529 account is at about $3-4k and kid is not even 2 yet...more than my ole man ever had saved. My plan is to make it look like I am poor so my kid can also qualify for some good aid.

 

[aida2003]

@ Potstickers,

Thanks for posting. Welcome to ER forum! I kind of suspect you've known this forum for a while...a lurker?

So, as I'm still curious how this college thing works in this country, could you share some more with me (us):

- It sounds that you say it's better to meet a college consultant before a HS-er starts applying for various colleges to prevent later 'tear'. In which grade would such a HS-er approach the consultant?

- How to find a competent college consultant? What questions to ask?

- What's the cost to hire him/her?

- What volunteer and extracurricular activities are very important for the US colleges? This is not required in other countries, BTW, though yes, athletes get more favorable treatment, but they still must show academic achievements before college.

- Any websites/books that are not misguided that you'd recommend to read?

Thank you.

 

[Potstickers]

@ Potstickers,

Thanks for posting. Welcome to ER forum! I kind of suspect you've known this forum for a while...a lurker?

So, as I'm still curious how this college thing works in this country, could you share some more with me (us):

- It sounds that you say it's better to meet a college consultant before a HS-er starts applying for various colleges to prevent later 'tear'. In which grade would such a HS-er approach the consultant?

- How to find a competent college consultant? What questions to ask?

- What's the cost to hire him/her?

- What volunteer and extracurricular activities are very important for the US colleges? This is not required in other countries, BTW, though yes, athletes get more favorable treatment, but they still must show academic achievements before college.

- Any websites/books that are not misguided that you'd recommend to read?

Thank you.

Thanks for the welcome! Yes, I've been lurking for a while. Lots of good info on the site. One of these days I will retire, but for now I'm having too much fun.

Most students do just fine without a college consultant. The entire college process is not like mounting an Everest expedition. Most colleges are not especially selective, and many public universities use simple tables or charts incorporating GPA and SAT/ACT scores for most admissions.

However, paying for college is a real issue for a lot of families. I particularly like to work with high school juniors and their families before the list gets firm and while there is still plenty of time to prepare for ACT/SAT tests in order to earn scores that may qualify for significant merit scholarships or admission to highly selective schools. In turn, many parents have no idea what they can afford for college. Money comes in and money goes out. Grandma/Grandpa said that they'd help with college costs. Parents assume kids can sign up for huge loans. How to Pay for College without Going Broke is a good book for those who want to understand how the formulas work; Lynn O'Shaughessy's The College Solution: A Guide for Everyone Looking for the Right School at the Right Price is very close to the way I think about matching up students with colleges their families can afford, without a lot of debt.

We help younger students (9th,10th, sometimes 11th) figure out how to explore and deepen involvement in activities that interest them. (Selective colleges tend to like students who have demonstrated increased involvement in fewer activities), help with course selection (yes, even though your high school graduation requirements may only include 2 years of math we still want you to take math every single year) and learn how to explore different types of colleges -- big, medium, small, engineering/art/specialized, and different possible majors. In my era students could afford to go to school and find themselves. At what college costs today, most students need to graduate in four years and need to do more prep before college to make that happen.

We tell people that those expensive service trips to Asia aren't really impressive to college admissions offices, and help students and parents understand how many private colleges actively mine all the data to evaluate a student's level of interest before making an admissions decision. Service hours -- especially a lot of random service hours -- aren't especially helpful or important, and focused volunteering often says a lot more about a student. (That student with four years of volunteer experience at the Humane Society who also runs a pet sitting business on the side looks a lot more coherent than does the student who simply did a lot of random, one-time volunteer activities.)

We help student athletes understand the reality of college athletic admissions and scholarships, and help students with learning disabilities evaluate services available at different schools.

We also visit a lot of colleges every year, and attend professional conferences. And I spend a lot of time reading technical materials from financial aid resources and participating in webinars and seminars related to financial aid. Good times.

And year, the US system is really different than the Canadian or British admissions. We help with those, too.

 

[duckcalldan]

Our substantial assets mean no FAFSA-related aid.

We have a daughter in her sophomore year in college. She stayed in state at a great school for her field, top 5% of her HS class. Received merit award that covers about 30% of her tuition.

Our second and last daughter is a HS junior. VERY smart and hard-working. Hasn't taken SAT or ACT but scores should be very high. She's taking almost exclusively AP classes (her choice, not ours) and will be in top 1% of her class.

We are likely to downsize and move out of state while she's in college, so we are helping her identify private and out of state public universities that are highly regarded and are also quite generous with merit aid. We're able to afford a slightly higher cost than if she was staying in state, but not by much. She's interested in political science, public policy, economics, that sort of thing. A smaller liberal arts college might be a good match.

She would prefer an urban college environment. A rural, bucolic campus...not so much.

Any possibilities?




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[sengsational]

One important strategy you can do is to try to qualify for a "simplified needs test." To do that, your AGI needs to be under $50k. If your non-tax-sheltered assets produce low enough income/dividends, you have little earned income, and if you plan ahead, you might be able to accomplish that. That would make your assets "invisible" to FAFSA. More info here:
FinAid | FinAid for Educators and FAAs | Simplified Needs Test Chart

I would be careful with this. In my experience, the "games" they play largely involve getting after-tax assets off the FAFSA form... which means investing it in annuities. They make big money on this and the costs often hugely outweigh the benefits.

It's too late for the OP, but if you buy an insurance product that's classified as a retirement asset when the kid is in 10th or 11th grade, it can work.... I'd call that a trick that can work (to counter all the "there are no tricks" posts. variable annuity is a dirty word here, but you can get plain-jane variety from Vanguard. Still has the crummy tax consequences where you must take out , and pay taxes on, all gains before you get your basis back. No need to hire a consultant...just run the fafsa and college board formulas with your non retirement assets and expected income and see where the chips fall.

Even if your efc comes to 5K on a $50K bill, the FA package may or may not fill the void. But many schools try not to load students with too much debt (you can look-up that statistic), so you get "institutional grants" which are just big honkin' discounts. And the loans can be subsidized and not have interest until after graduation.

Another trick is to have more than one active student at a time. Your efc stays essentially the same... it's the best twofer you'll ever get!

BTW, I ended up with simplified needs test, even though I had capital gains. I'm not sure how it happened because they have my tax return. Might be triggered by the low income (mostly just Roth conversion, since I've FIREd).

 

[Potstickers]

Our substantial assets mean no FAFSA-related aid.

We have a daughter in her sophomore year in college. She stayed in state at a great school for her field, top 5% of her HS class. Received merit award that covers about 30% of her tuition.

Our second and last daughter is a HS junior. VERY smart and hard-working. Hasn't taken SAT or ACT but scores should be very high. She's taking almost exclusively AP classes (her choice, not ours) and will be in top 1% of her class.

We are likely to downsize and move out of state while she's in college, so we are helping her identify private and out of state public universities that are highly regarded and are also quite generous with merit aid. We're able to afford a slightly higher cost than if she was staying in state, but not by much. She's interested in political science, public policy, economics, that sort of thing. A smaller liberal arts college might be a good match.

She would prefer an urban college environment. A rural, bucolic campus...not so much.

Any possibilities?

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Can she study up to try and get a great score on the PSAT this October? There are a number of really lovely, significant scholarships that become possible if she is a National Merit Semifinalist. The required cut score varies by state, but for many states a 218 or higher index score is likely to qualify.

Fordham has a great National Merit scholarship, and also one that can cover up to full tuition for students in the top 1% of their high school class. Villanova has some great scholarships, as do Northeastern, American and Occidental.

Much will come down to her ACT or SAT score. There is s significant difference in major scholarship availability for students who earn a 35/36 on the ACT rather than a 31, even though a 31 is a fine score. If it takes a student 60 hours of concentrated work time to boost a test score in order to yield a $10K/year increase in merit aid, that's a mighty fine payoff.

There are also a number of public universities with great honors programs that can provide a tremendous range of opportunities at lower costs. Students can bloom in a lot of places.

 

[LOL!]

She's interested in political science, public policy, economics, that sort of thing. A smaller liberal arts college might be a good match.

She would prefer an urban college environment. A rural, bucolic campus...not so much.

Any possibilities?

Dozens of possibilities. And universities that are not liberal arts colleges have great poli sci /econ/humanities programs. So ... what you have written doesn't really restrict the choices very much. Is there a geographic preference, California? NY? Virginia? North? South? Midwest? Where would her friends attend college?

Nords' daughter went to Rice U in Houston and studied engineering, but it matches your criteria perfectly, too.

 

[duckcalldan]

Dozens of possibilities. And universities that are not liberal arts colleges have great poli sci /econ/humanities programs. So ... what you have written doesn't really restrict the choices very much. Is there a geographic preference, California? NY? Virginia? North? South? Midwest? Where would her friends attend college?

Nords' daughter went to Rice U in Houston and studied engineering, but it matches your criteria perfectly, too.

She loves the NW. We spent last spring break in Seattle and toured UW. Met with an academic adviser too. Any large city on the west coast would be up for grabs. Claremont McKenna sounds interesting, as does Santa Clara.

Other than out west, the NE is interesting. She loves the idea of NYU or Fordham. We live in VA and doesn't really care for the south (though she spent a week in Nashville and quite liked it there). She is quirky and liberal, and is looking forward to studying in a less conservative place. Regardless of its location, she wants a school that has a strong semester-in-Washington DC program.

Thanks for the ideas.


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[duckcalldan]

Can she study up to try and get a great score on the PSAT this October? There are a number of really lovely, significant scholarships that become possible if she is a National Merit Semifinalist. The required cut score varies by state, but for many states a 218 or higher index score is likely to qualify.



Fordham has a great National Merit scholarship, and also one that can cover up to full tuition for students in the top 1% of their high school class. Villanova has some great scholarships, as do Northeastern, American and Occidental.



Much will come down to her ACT or SAT score. There is s significant difference in major scholarship availability for students who earn a 35/36 on the ACT rather than a 31, even though a 31 is a fine score. If it takes a student 60 hours of concentrated work time to boost a test score in order to yield a $10K/year increase in merit aid, that's a mighty fine payoff.



There are also a number of public universities with great honors programs that can provide a tremendous range of opportunities at lower costs. Students can bloom in a lot of places.

Very helpful advice, thanks. She is very interested in Georgetown/GW/American. We've brought up Fordham as a solid alternative to Columbia.


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[aida2003]

However, paying for college is a real issue for a lot of families. I particularly like to work with high school juniors and their families before the list gets firm and while there is still plenty of time to prepare for ACT/SAT tests in order to earn scores that may qualify for significant merit scholarships or admission to highly selective schools. In turn, many parents have no idea what they can afford for college. Money comes in and money goes out. Grandma/Grandpa said that they'd help with college costs. Parents assume kids can sign up for huge loans. How to Pay for College without Going Broke is a good book for those who want to understand how the formulas work; Lynn O'Shaughessy's The College Solution: A Guide for Everyone Looking for the Right School at the Right Price is very close to the way I think about matching up students with colleges their families can afford, without a lot of debt.

We help younger students (9th,10th, sometimes 11th) figure out how to explore and deepen involvement in activities that interest them. (Selective colleges tend to like students who have demonstrated increased involvement in fewer activities), help with course selection (yes, even though your high school graduation requirements may only include 2 years of math we still want you to take math every single year) and learn how to explore different types of colleges -- big, medium, small, engineering/art/specialized, and different possible majors. In my era students could afford to go to school and find themselves. At what college costs today, most students need to graduate in four years and need to do more prep before college to make that happen.

We tell people that those expensive service trips to Asia aren't really impressive to college admissions offices, and help students and parents understand how many private colleges actively mine all the data to evaluate a student's level of interest before making an admissions decision. Service hours -- especially a lot of random service hours -- aren't especially helpful or important, and focused volunteering often says a lot more about a student. (That student with four years of volunteer experience at the Humane Society who also runs a pet sitting business on the side looks a lot more coherent than does the student who simply did a lot of random, one-time volunteer activities.)

Thank you for sharing, Potstickers, some great information. I'll check my library if it has the books you mentioned. I'd like to educate myself slowly how the system works here.

You also made a great point about focused volunteering. This is good to know.
Do activities with Girl Scouts (if the girl stays with them through HS, but doesn't earn a Gold reward) count favorably? I guess volunteering at an animal shelter (if you can find one that takes younger than 18y.o. volunteers) counts more than volunteering at the district library, right?

I chatted with one mom whose daughter earned a GS Gold reward, but she's not sure if it contributed a lot of weight in the acceptance at Georgetown (technology or science program) as the girl's grades were great.

Why don't Peace Corps or other overseas service activities impress admission directors? This would negate what I've read in the articles in the media. Would this mean that the media promotes such volunteer activities upon request of such organizations only?

Thank you.

 

[TallTim]

Went through this exercise this past year ........waste of my time.

+1 to this. We had a similar experience with DD who just started last week and with DS who is in the application phase now.

If you have substantial assets (and most all here who are RE do), it's a near total waste of time.

What I tell the kids' friends parents is that you have to make a distinction between what you/your family cannot pay and will not pay. FASFA and need-based aid only address the former, and the process is designed IMO pretty well to prevent gaming the system. For the latter, you have to have an upfront discussion w your kids about what you as a family/parents are willing to pay and take that into consideration in selection of a list of schools to which to apply. I've seen what happens in other families when a D or S gets set on a school only to have mom and dad say no at the end, and it's neither pretty nor fair to the child IMO.

Congratulations on getting your kids to college and best of luck with the process.

 

[sengsational]

+1 to this. We had a similar experience with DD who just started last week and with DS who is in the application phase now.

If you have substantial assets (and most all here who are RE do), it's a near total waste of time.

Maybe a waste of time, but it really doesn't take too much time to figure out if you're in the ballpark or not.

If the kid has assets, 25% of those go to the EFC, so any smooth-move to shift income to your kids' lower tax rate kills you on the FAFSA. Your kids income....I think half of that goes to the EFC or something. My kids didn't make much, so it wasn't a big factor.

To get the EFC for the parents, you calculate "total available" from both income and assets. So their formula decides how much of your assets and income is available to spend on your kid.

You get total available income by starting with your income less federal taxes paid, less SS paid, less state-specific tax offset (smallish number based on how much tax they think you paid to your state), less "income protection allowance" (which is only $25K IIRC). So that's the first total. Hang on to that as your first total.

Then you get total available from assets by taking 12% of your assets (cash, savings, investments, rental property , but not your current home equity in FAFSA), less "asset protection allowance" (which is only $50K or $60K IIRC). BTW, the available from assets calculation does not include retirement assets (IRA, 401k, retirement annuities, cash value of life insurance, etc). Hang on to that second total.

You add the two totals: available from income and total available from assets to get total available (TA). They expect you to spend 27% of that total below a cut-off, and 47% of the amount exceeding the cutoff. The cut-off was $29K a few years back. So for instance 0.27*29K + 0.47*(TA-29K).

Those are old percentages/values I pulled from a spreadsheet of mine. I don't imagine they've changed too much, but it will certainly show you, in like 5 minutes, roughly what they'd expect you to spend for college, per year.

I imagine there are people who are not earning much (FIREd), they have a goodly fraction of their assets in IRA's, 401k's, VA's, or other retirement assets that are ignored by the formulas, and didn't UGMA their kids. Well, I'm not sure how many fit that bill, but I know it's not zero.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

It is theoretically possible to be a billionaire and get financial aid (grants not just loans and on campus jobs) at a college that uses FAFSA guidelines, as long as your assets are in FAFSA exempt asset classes and your AGI is under the limits. I used to read books on the subject, but really the best source I found was free and online at the Forbes site in articles like this:

Forbes Financial Aid Article

We had our kids look at the payscale reports by college and by major and the Job Outlook Handbook to help pick a cost effective major. We offered to pay for in state public school costs (net of financial aid) or equivalent. Community college and online credits helped bring the costs down further, as did tutoring jobs and internships for spending money.

 

[duckcalldan]

Can she study up to try and get a great score on the PSAT this October? There are a number of really lovely, significant scholarships that become possible if she is a National Merit Semifinalist. The required cut score varies by state, but for many states a 218 or higher index score is likely to qualify.



Fordham has a great National Merit scholarship, and also one that can cover up to full tuition for students in the top 1% of their high school class. Villanova has some great scholarships, as do Northeastern, American and Occidental.



Much will come down to her ACT or SAT score. There is s significant difference in major scholarship availability for students who earn a 35/36 on the ACT rather than a 31, even though a 31 is a fine score. If it takes a student 60 hours of concentrated work time to boost a test score in order to yield a $10K/year increase in merit aid, that's a mighty fine payoff.



There are also a number of public universities with great honors programs that can provide a tremendous range of opportunities at lower costs. Students can bloom in a lot of places.

A clarification, Potstickers:
She took the PSAT last spring as a sophomore. She scored 1430. She'll take it again in October for ranking and scholarship purposes. Thanks for the info you provided; it's genuinely helpful.


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[LOL!]

She loves the NW. ....

She is quirky and liberal, and is looking forward to studying in a less conservative place. Regardless of its location, she wants a school that has a strong semester-in-Washington DC program.

Reed College in Portland, OR
Georgetown U
George Washington U
Hunter College, NYC
and the usual places in Massachusetts

But now it reads like she can figure this out for herself and needs no help.

 

[sengsational]

A clarification, Potstickers:
She took the PSAT last spring as a sophomore. She scored 1430. She'll take it again in October for ranking and scholarship purposes. Thanks for the info you provided; it's genuinely helpful.

In that earlier post, I talked about how little time it takes to figure out if financial aid can kick-in, based on a quick caculation...no significant time wasted there. Concerning merit scholarships...ah, now THAT can be a big time-sink.

Both of my kids got great scores on the PSAT and were in the running for National Merit Scholarship, which can result in a free-ride. There is a lot more to being a national merit scholar than getting excellent grades and getting excellent test scores. After chatting with some parents at the interview (when the first daughter was going for it), I realized that everyone I talked to would be considered a "helicopter parent"; they had been engineering their kids' lives so that the kids' "brag sheet" was hand crafted and tuned to look like they wanted to save the world (or maybe had already saved the world). They also said they'd been doing mock interviews so the kids knew what the interviewers wanted to hear. I knew right then that there was little chance she'd get the free-ride, and she didn't. But then again, we let our kids do whatever they felt like doing, so not a bunch of do-gooder community service and stuff like that on the brag sheet. And we didn't coach her for the interview or anything....it was all her doing, not ours. When the second daughter had the option of going for the interview, she just opted-out.

The best news about having a smart kid is that they can get high school AP credits transferred to college so they can freely drop a course or five along the way, and not get behind on their four year program. And of course, the smart kid has a better shot at their choice of schools. But even then, my experience of having a valedictorian and a kid in the top 1% of her high school class, it's not all about the grades and scores on admissions either...they were both sweating, waiting for the "thick envelope". But both of them got it! Now one has graduated and one is a senior. Glad to have (almost) all of that behind me.

 

[Texas Proud]

Man, being a National Merit Scholar must have changed over the years...

I was close, but just a couple of points short... but, had a friend who did make it... he got a whopping $2,000 scholarship at the University of Texas... I think he got it for 4 years, but not sure...