Any website recommendation on 'debt counseling'?

C

Cb

Recycles dryer sheets
Joined
Jun 23, 2002
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My 40-something brother-in-law has gotten himself buried in credit card debt (again), and he's coming out tomorrow to have me look over a debt-consolidation loan. Are any of you aware of any websites addressing methods to dig one's self out of debt, cutting up credit cards, and budgeting basics...you know, the basics that Suze Orman and the other radio talkshow guy who hammers away on debt elimination? The more basic the better...

tia,

Cb
 
I don't know what all you'll be looking for, but here is a website that I've found to be helpful:

http://www.creditinfocenter.com/

My FIL just passed away with large CC debts and we've been trying to sort through everything for my MIL. She is not responsible for the debt, so I haven't checked this site much for personal finance habits, but there is a lot here.

I was wary initially of the credit counseling sites I found because all they want to do is sign you up for a consolidation loan. This is the only one I saw that tells you more about how to do things for yourself.
 
I recommend Dave Ramsey's Total Money Makeover book. Even better than that would be to take Financial Peace University -- 13 weeks of meetings to understand the cause of the problem. (Anyone have a mirror for your BIL?)

If this has happened before it will happen again. The only hope he has is to change his behavior.

If you've never heard of Dave Ramsey, Google him and you'll find his website. He also does a daily radio show. His advice is very, very simple but it requires the desire to change.

Without knowing the details, I can't say whether the debt consolidation loan is a good idea or not. I can say it's probably a big mistake because it will artifically bail him out of his current cash flow problem but increase his total indebtedness -- lower payments over a longer period of time that is probably at a higher interest rate than he his currently paying.

I wouldn't bother with Suzie Orman. She seems to want to spend too much time finding the best credit card deal when the cards need to go if they can't be paid off in full every month.
 
Is BIL ready to get out of the cycle?

A website will give him the tools, but not the desire. Dave Ramsey is pretty good from what I hear. Also, I was never in serious debt myself but Your Money or your Life was what really lit a fire under my and DH's behinds to start working towards FIRE, AND it gives some good LBYM 101 information too. My current favorite money guru is Michelle Singletary, her Spend Well, Live Rich is a good primer as well. Read one of Suze's books, it didn't do a whole lot for me honestly.
 
Cb said:
Are any of you aware of any websites addressing methods to dig one's self out of debt, cutting up credit cards, and budgeting basics...
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The Dollar Stretcher-- http://www.stretcher.com/index.cfm

I'd recommend searching it for debt consolidation info and addressing this particular question, but then I'd also have your BIL sign up for the electronic newsletter. He'll get an e-mail every two weeks (plus two additional editions of tips) that are delivered in small doses from personal experiences.
 
Dave Ramsey, I've used his recommendations for debt reduction.
 
Thanks everyone...I'll study up before he comes over, and order Ramsey's book for him. (Dave Ramsey was the radio host I weas thinking of)

I rather doubt that he's ready to 'break the cycle'...that was the first thing I told my wife - that if he takes out a consolidation loan it'll free up a lot of room on his credit cards allowing him to dig himself in even deeper.

He and his daughter live upstairs from his 83 YO mother and don't pay rent or utilities, and his mother paid all his cards off a couple years ago. Drinks a bit too...

I suppose my primary message for him is to let him know it's entirely possible to straighten this stuff out if he's so inclined.

thanks,

Cb :-\
 
WM said:
I don't know what all you'll be looking for, but here is a website that I've found to be helpful:

http://www.creditinfocenter.com/

My FIL just passed away with large CC debts and we've been trying to sort through everything for my MIL. She is not responsible for the debt, so I haven't checked this site much for personal finance habits, but there is a lot here.

I was wary initially of the credit counseling sites I found because all they want to do is sign you up for a consolidation loan. This is the only one I saw that tells you more about how to do things for yourself.
Click to expand...

WM, please advise your MIL not to pay your FIL's credit card debts. If she was not a cosignor on the credit card, then she does NOT owe. Tell the credit card companies to go away.
 
Thanks, JustCurious, we are on it :)

We recently made phone calls and sent letters to the creditors to tell them there's no estate (ie, they're not getting paid) and we're waiting to see what they do next. Don't know whether to believe it or not, but Discover's probate collection agency called her and actually told her she's not responsible if there's no estate, and to disregard any future communications :eek: Not the typical behavior of creditors trying to collect, from what I've heard.
 
WM said:
Thanks, JustCurious, we are on it :)

Discover's probate collection agency called her and actually told her she's not responsible if there's no estate, and to disregard any future communications :eek: Not the typical behavior of creditors trying to collect, from what I've heard.
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What will happen is that Discover (and all of the others) will sell the "bad" debt for pennies on the dollar to a free lance collection agency. Your MIL will start getting threatening calls as this agency goes to work. They will threaten her with ruining her credit and destroying her husband's "good name." When they give up, they will sell the debt for even less to another agency who will start the process all over again.

Then, ask for a statement for what is owed, tell them you need need written details and an address to send a reply. Don't admit to anything since they are recording the call. When you get a statement with an address, send a certified, return requested letter with the information that there was no estate, no one else is responsible for his debt and that there will not be any payment -- reference the "fair credit act." Unfortunately, this may go on with several generations of debt collectors.

My FIL (in assisted living) is getting repeated letters from an agency trying to collect from him for someone with a similar name and a very different address. They seem immune from certified letters but I actually hope they do trash his credit since he will never need it again. I don't even know if they have his SS number but I doubt it.
 
I know I'm piling on here but Dave Ramsey at www.daveramsey.com, it's simple simple simple and that's a big reason why it works.
 
If your BIL is not a Christian, Dave Ramsey may not be for him.

He sees his program as an evangelical outreach tool.
http://www.daveramsey.com/fpu/church/

He quotes scriptures
http://www.daveramsey.com/etc/cms/index.cfm?intContentID=4236

He doesn't allow non-Christians to take his programs.
http://www.moneydummy.net/?p=424

So if your BIL wasn't he could find these as objections to ignore the advice.

I would recommend this thread on Fat Wallet.

http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/messageview.php?catid=52&threadid=227686&start=0
 
2B said:
What will happen is that Discover (and all of the others) will sell the "bad" debt for pennies on the dollar to a free lance collection agency.
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Darn, I thought it was too good to be true :)

This was actually a first-round collection agency, I believe, not actually Discover calling. but it didn't occur to me that they'd just re-sell it again. What a headache!
 
2B said:
What will happen is that Discover (and all of the others) will sell the "bad" debt for pennies on the dollar to a free lance collection agency. Your MIL will start getting threatening calls as this agency goes to work. They will threaten her with ruining her credit and destroying her husband's "good name." When they give up, they will sell the debt for even less to another agency who will start the process all over again.

Then, ask for a statement for what is owed, tell them you need need written details and an address to send a reply. Don't admit to anything since they are recording the call. When you get a statement with an address, send a certified, return requested letter with the information that there was no estate, no one else is responsible for his debt and that there will not be any payment -- reference the "fair credit act." Unfortunately, this may go on with several generations of debt collectors.

My FIL (in assisted living) is getting repeated letters from an agency trying to collect from him for someone with a similar name and a very different address. They seem immune from certified letters but I actually hope they do trash his credit since he will never need it again. I don't even know if they have his SS number but I doubt it.
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It's already happened to my sister's account. However, since now we're in the probate process, the "nice folks" have only another month to answer us before they get nothing............ :eek: Of course, they get an "A" for harassment............ :p :p :p
 
Um, I went to Dave Ramsey's seminar and didn't have to say I was a Christian. I wouldn't put too much credence into that comment. I think what the link was talking about was actually working for him as a financial counselor. It would make sense that he wants like-minded people to teach his stuff.

I don't get the idea he cares about the religious affiliation of those who want to get out of debt. I worked for Habitat for Humanity and managed pretty well to keep my religious beliefs unheard. And work in a Christian office now. Think I've been to church well, uh, none, since I got married 14 years ago. help help I'm being oppressed...

If I can weather the Bible talk on Dave Ramsey without getting insulted, maybe your BIL can too.

Sarah
 
During my brother-in-law's visit it was pretty clear that neither he nor his 14 YO daughter are interested in changing their behaviors...he simply wanted our endorsement for taking out the consolidation loan to reduce the monthly minimum payment on his TEN credit cards. My wife and I tried to frame his financial crisis problems in terms of near-term and longer term issues, but he just doesn't see much of a problem. After an hour or so he let us know that he's expecting a >$30K settlement related to his estranged wife's death* later this year, and just wants a bit of relief from the CC minimums until then.

I told my wife I'd send a used copy of Ramsey's book from Amazon and figure we've done our part.

Cb :confused:
*estranged wife had quite an appetite for meth & Oxy Contin. One night at the bar she repeatedly told her friends and the bartender that she was going to throw herself in front of a car. The suggested that she not do that. A few hours later at about 1:00am, she walked out of the bar and leapt in front of an oncoming car. The guy driving the first car to hit her was drunk...hence the settlement.
 
Cb, were I you and your wife I would make it clear that you have lots of financial obligations and have no spare cash for them. Your financial obligations are your obligations to yourself, but don't share that.
 
mclesters said:
Um, I went to Dave Ramsey's seminar and didn't have to say I was a Christian. I wouldn't put too much credence into that comment. I think what the link was talking about was actually working for him as a financial counselor. It would make sense that he wants like-minded people to teach his stuff.
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Thanks for the clarification.

If I can weather the Bible talk on Dave Ramsey without getting insulted, maybe your BIL can too.

Sarah
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I have friends who some help but since they aren't Christians, they would stop listening no matter what the message was. Of course, they are looking for an excuse but why give them an easy one.
 
Cb said:
After an hour or so he let us know that he's expecting a >$30K settlement related to his estranged wife's death* later this year, and just wants a bit of relief from the CC minimums until then.
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Raise your hand if you think the settlement will be gone in 9-12 months and the BIL will be using the credit cards again.
 
Cb said:
During my brother-in-law's visit it was pretty clear that neither he nor his 14 YO daughter are interested in changing their behaviors...he simply wanted our endorsement for taking out the consolidation loan to reduce the monthly minimum payment on his TEN credit cards. My wife and I tried to frame his financial crisis problems in terms of near-term and longer term issues, but he just doesn't see much of a problem. After an hour or so he let us know that he's expecting a >$30K settlement related to his estranged wife's death* later this year, and just wants a bit of relief from the CC minimums until then.

I told my wife I'd send a used copy of Ramsey's book from Amazon and figure we've done our part.

Cb :confused:
*estranged wife had quite an appetite for meth & Oxy Contin. One night at the bar she repeatedly told her friends and the bartender that she was going to throw herself in front of a car. The suggested that she not do that. A few hours later at about 1:00am, she walked out of the bar and leapt in front of an oncoming car. The guy driving the first car to hit her was drunk...hence the settlement.
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Sometimes its ok to give up on your relatives. IE you can you tell them things till you are blue in the face but they will never see what you are talking about.
 
Mwsinron said:
Sometimes its ok to give up on your relatives. IE you can you tell them things till you are blue in the face but they will never see what you are talking about.
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Easier said than done.

My MIL is burning through her (also inherited) funds at a pretty good rate with the help of my BIL, his daughter, and a few other needy relatives. She's already suggested that her somewhat succesful kids start kicking in a bit to help out, but I don't see a line item for that sort of thing on my spreadsheet. I've told my wife (repeatedly) that we should be willing to try to teach 'em to fish, but we'll give no fish. Her first instinct, however, is to zip in and spring for a dress for the high school choir performance when she hears about such a need. I then point out that the parent of a high school kid with an Ipod and a cell phone has already made a few choices... :-\
 
Cb said:
She's already suggested that her somewhat succesful kids start kicking in a bit to help out, but I don't see a line item for that sort of thing on my spreadsheet.
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It is clear you are just heartless. Why shouldn't you scrimp and save so you can support your spendthrift relatives?

Pesonally, I take pride in being heartless. My BIL was out of work for almost 2 years (nothing met his level of professional development) and they took two trips to Italy during that time to relieve the stress. DW talked to her sister who commented on their poor financial situation. They were forced to downsize his Porsche to a BMW but fortunately she could keep her Lexus.

My brother was living on his salary with a 25% supplement from my father when my father died. He went into total shock at the impact of my father's death. What a surprise.
 
Cb said:
Easier said than done.
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No offense.... But I will give some candid advice. I have experience.

I have a brother that is similar. I helped him out early on. My other Brother helped him, My mother helped him. Help means Money. We all eventually cut-off him off when it became obvious that he was milking it. He eventually hit rock bottom. He has since picked himself up and is beginning to improve. He went through a religous conversion and seems sincere. He has become more financially reponsible. However, I still do not loan him money. If he were in a dire emergency, I would probably help... But that would be it and the help would be limited!

You MIL is enabling the behavior. Your BIL will take all he can. Then move on to new territory (if he can find it). Unless you see a real behaviorial change (like a religious conversion)... Chalk him us as a user. I am sure I do not have to tell you this... But do not lend or give him any money. He is probably just pis#$ng it away!

Your DW is probably torn. You can try to negotiate a rational/reasonable plan with her. Get agreement that you might be willing to help in a dire emergency. Like getting thrown out of the house and need a few $ to get on their feet. Absolutely no discretionary spending. It just reinforces the behavior.

As far as the BIL's Daughter goes... If you want to help her. Help her to find a part-time job. Or pay her for doing some work for you. Do not pay if she does not live up to her end of the bargain or does sloppy work. Maybe she will learn some responsibility. Unfortunately she was born to a dead-beat. She needs to learn as soon as possible that there is no free-ride. People get what they earn! You will be doing her a favor by reinforcing good behavior.
 
2B said:
Pesonally, I take pride in being heartless. My BIL was out of work for almost 2 years (nothing met his level of professional development) and they took two trips to Italy during that time to relieve the stress. DW talked to her sister who commented on their poor financial situation. They were forced to downsize his Porsche to a BMW but fortunately she could keep her Lexus.
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Have you considered a charity to help them out? They sound deserving.
My brother was living on his salary with a 25% supplement from my father when my father died. He went into total shock at the impact of my father's death. What a surprise.
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Psychotherapy. I find it interesting that some people can just spend everything given to them and then some.
 
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