Anybody like their job?

setab said:
I'm just wondering if anybody here actually liked their job when they were working.  If so, why retire?  I can see leaving a job you hate, but why not find something you like to do and stay with it?  Just curious.

Setab

Yes, I like my job. I generally like the people I work with, my work is challenging and dynamic, I have amazing autonomy to schedule my day/week/year, and it pays well. I'm very fortunate.

If I could afford to I would quit tomorrow! As much as I "like" my job there are many, many other things I would rather spend my time doing. Sleeping past 5:30AM comes immediately to mind.
 
In general, most of my jobs (the tasks) are fine. The 'pain' is dealing with people.
 
YRS to Go,

I don't know if I dare eat a peach, but I do not wear my pants rolled up. ;)

setab
 
davew894 said:
Nords, if you do dig up your list, please let me know.
OK, I found it. It's a five-page two-column WordPerfect 4.x document on 9-pin dot-matrix tractor feed from mid-1991...

After I have the Smithsonian stabilize & preserve it I'm gonna have to retype it.
 
After 26 years, the last 3 or so drinking cawfee and watching the puter screen, its time to go and find out what I wanna be when I grow up.

The job was good, but it is not something my body and mind yearns to do.  I will miss watching the young thangs in summer and spring strut their stuff on the corner of beaver and broad downtown manhattan, man, it makes me cry not seeing that anymore.

But the upside is getting a job as a UPS man or something, and making deliveries to de chicken ranch out in vegas, finding another S. bucks to drink cawfee at where there is those young thangs strutting by.  Yummmmmy. ::)

Jug
 
This has been an interesting (and overdue!) exercise in occupational therapy. I'm also hoping that it helps someone else to reach their own decision, or to at least start the discussion.

First, let me frame the context when I started this list on 18 June 1991. Our submarine & crew had just survived our 7-17 June portcall in Subic Bay, RP, where we had contended with two eruptions from Mt. Pinatubo (~20 miles away) as well as Tropical Storm Yunya & several volcanic earthquakes. Shore leave had gone from libertine hedonism to living hell overnight. Surprisingly none of our crew was killed. One of my shipmates had 50 stitches in his arm and another had been trapped in a collapsed building for 24 hours listening to people scream until they died.

I'd been up for 36 hours as the Duty Officer, beginning with an emergency reactor startup ("latch 'em & snatch 'em") and frantic repairs to the ship's diesel. (Shore power was not coming back.) The reactor was looking shaky because our seawater intakes were fouled with volcanic ash (a bad thing for reactor cooling). We feared sinking pierside because the topside was under a foot of volcanic ash. "Luckily" most of the crew returned aboard when the earthquake crumbled their six-story barracks, so we had plenty of guys topside shoveling ash in hardhats & gas masks with flashlights while the black steaming sky was split by red lightning-- at noon. Even if the weather lifted in the next 24 hours (it didn't) we had to remove the sail scaffolding and patch up the repairs. Somehow we held it all together, despite the XO & us department heads having to constantly fight with a traumatized CO who couldn't lead or make decisions but who could certainly second-guess us.

The next morning we rescued the rest of the crew & escaped to Guam, but the damage was in the million$. The engineroom cooling systems were a leaky disaster and Naval Reactors was whining concerned about several reactor-safety decisions that we'd freelanced in the heat of the moment. Our torpedo tube's valves & seals were clogged & ruined by ash, as were all of our antennas & periscopes. We spent four days in shift-work cleaning just to dispose of all the ash that had crept into computers, electronics, and ventilation & cooling systems. Even circuit breakers were tripping on clogged ash.

So during one watch as we chatted about our experiences (discussion-group therapy), I wrote the first draft of this list. Note that I was blissfully ignorant of the advantages or even the existence of the Navy Reserve.

What I like about the Navy, in no particular order:
- Human beings. Great officers like (insert mentor's names here).
- Battle stations & tactics in the simulators.
- Giving training talks.
- At-sea tactics & exercises.
- Great fellow officers like (insert shipmate names here).
- Great former officers like (another list of old shipmates).
- The benefits-- commissaries & exchanges, free gyms & pools.
- The chance to try out a different submarine wardroom (& CO).
- SSNs.
- The adventure, wherever it went to.
- Watching the movie every night (not that you've done that lately).
- Decaf coffee.
- Smart young sailors who answer the questions right the first time and don't bluff.
- Smart Chief Petty Officers & Leading Petty Officers who (see previous entry).
- Shore duty.
- Hawaii duty.
- Promotions-- the VIP treatment & deference can really go to your head.
- Engineering & ship's drills.
- Engineering watches, especially if we get to put the plant through its paces.
- Quiet engineering watches where we can chat.
- The knowledge that headhunters & HECO are dying to hire nuclear submariners.
- Hoping that the burnout of 1991-2 was temporary (it wasn't).

What I DON'T like about the Navy, in no particular order:
- Subhuman beings like (insert bad names here). "Leaders" that I can't respect or admire.
- Running into the same subhumans at subsequent duty stations.
- The feeling of apathy, helplessness, & frustration 11-16 June 1991 during Mt. Pinatubo.
- Spouse separation. Six-month WESTPACs, six-week EASTPACs, or weekly local ops are all equally bad.
- Being in a wardroom without friends. That won't improve when you're XO.
- The constant grind of pushing the squadron & maintenance shops for upkeep support, cleaning the boat, prepping for the next inspection, and getting ready for deployment. This may be end-of-tour burnout. (It wasn't.)
- Trident SSBNs, which incorporate all the bad of SSNs at a higher level of politics. The boomer good ol' days are gone forever.
- High-stress socializing when the wardroom is full of subhumans and their spouses.
- Incompetent department heads.
- Admin bozos (see previous entry).
- Bangor, Washington.
- Chinhae, ROK.
- Training clueless Junior OODs like (insert names here) who don't listen and aren't trying.
- Mission reports, especially when the Russians don't go to sea anymore.
- Counterdrug ops.
- Four-section import duty.
- Freezing submarine air conditioning.
- No air conditioning.
- The amount of administrivia an XO has to track.
- Lack of workouts, even ashore.
- Wardroom attitude-- very cut-throat & back-stabbing for minimal returns.
- West Loch's weapons loads.
- Drydock.
- Shipyard.
- Endless wardroom homages to "Wild Bill" alcoholics officers on other notoriously unsafe legendary submarines.
- Cutting slack to adulterous admirals while hammering JO indiscretions (insert long list here) and then complaining about the behavior of the younger generation.
- Eating lukewarm, mushy, fat-filled food provided by sullen cooks.
- Getting the time to do laundry.
- Having to institute punitive leadership for those who don't respond to anything else. "Holding accountable" vice training.
- CDO as XO. If there's anything worse than four-section import duty it's staying up all night in red goggles training OODs in the dark.
- Getting underway on a Friday for a Tuesday exercise because your CO isn't senior enough to pull a Monday underway timeslot.

Four years later I updated the list. We'd won the Cold War but the "peace dividend" was ensuring that the submarine force would be considerably smaller and not everyone in the game would get playing time. I wasn't selected for an XO tour and, although I didn't realize it for two more years, I'd already seen my last promotion. I had just escaped a horrible HQ staff duty and slowly recovering at a training command, but we were still encountering our share of drawdown problems. So the possibility of an early retirement seemed pretty attractive despite the massive pay cut.

The good things about a Navy early retirement, in no particular order:
- No more burnout stress. No more midwatch wakeups with my brain overspeeding.
- Not feeling trapped by the job, the family obligations, or the bosses.
- No fear of being deployed while spouse is deployed, forcing us to find other family to care for the kid.
- No before/after school childcare problems-- I'll be in the kitchen baking cookies.
- A fresh start. I won't be killing my mental & physical health for a few more years of pay.
- Investments are way ahead of schedule-- but confirm with retirement planning software. (We were right.)
- No more bozo leaders like (insert list here).
- I won't have to talk to bozo shipmates like (insert list here) any more.
- If I'm up at night I can still nap during the day. (Our kid did not sleep well.)
- I only have to drink coffee for the taste.
- I can save at least $200/month by taking over housecleaning & yardwork.
- I can spend more time on investing.
- I can handle rental-property repairs whenever there's a problem.
- Regular workouts & bike rides.
- I can explore other careers (or not).
- No more stand downs for "good order & discipline" or sexual harassment.
- I won't be worried about my next military duty station.
- Honey-dos from hell!

The not-so-good things about a Navy early retirement, in no particular order:
- No more steady paychecks (for the steady mortgage payments).
- Only a ~$17K annual pension instead of $25K (in 1997).
- Greatly reduced retirement portfolio.
- No earned income for IRA contributions.
- Might have to get a real job.
- "Daddy track" sacrifices for an uncaring kid?
- The extra 2-5 years of salary could pay for a lot of psychiatric treatment.
- Putting the pressure on spouse. We'll be transferred overseas or she'll be unaccompanied to Diego Garcia.
- What if I could stick around for 20 years or even promote (yeah, sure)?
- Honey-dos from hell!
 
Exactly! I'm just trying to decide whether I fit the "retire now" profile even if I don't want to spend a lot of time looking at portfolios, withdrawal percentages, etc. I know myself too well. I just wouldn't do it.

setab

It is amazing the reluctance (in general not pointing to setab in particular) people have to allocate time to take care of their money and define and steer a FIRE strategy as opposed to the willingness they demonstrate to work for 60+ hours to care of someone else's problems !

The art of management is to convince someone else that your problems are his / her !!!

The art of FIRE is to convince yourself that what is good for you comes first. The time I spent taking care of my investments / trading / whatever was 10 times worth the time I spent for any company / organisation and more than 100 times the reward (as 100 * 0 is still zero). The weekly standard deviation of my net worth is more than my previous annual salary (I wasn't paid much :-[ ) and it's not the volat that has increased ! And it's the driver's seat, nobody tells you what is good for you any longer.

Spend time to take your OWN wheel and drive !
 
Hmmm

I will repeat - one more time(ad infinitum). After investing since 1966 and being retired since 1993:

Hindsight being 20/20 and all that:

1. Don't waste time reading books, managing your investments or any of that crap.

2. LBYM - save your money early and often(auto deduct and DCA) and when YOU 'know' it's time to retire - RETIRE!

3. One lifecycle fund is all it takes - DUH! - like Vanguard Target Retirement Series. If you have amassed a big enough stash - live off dividends and interest - otherwise 4% is a good ballpark figure nowadays.

Looking back - all my 'investment management/er ah reading/education' was determental to my retirement.

Of course - that stuff I say not to do - is male, hormonal, biologically driven and incurable. Besides it's great fun - although costly for most of us.

heh heh heh - coffee pot's on - a couple cups and I'll mellow out.

You need faith in DeGaul and the Norwegian widow - not wisdom.
 
Nords

Good list - two in, two out. The nephews plan to go till retirement. The two females dropped out - contractor/mommy track(wife of oldest nephew and youngest niece).

DUH! The little niece is the smartest one - BUT she married a MARINE (lifer).

Who says brains and common sense go together.

At least I got them to read some Bogle early on - although one has slipped over to 'the dark side' - Bernstein's Four Pillars - had a little chat with him about that but don't think it took.

Sigh! - More coffee.
 
Nords, a dumb question for you: what's a wardroom and why is it so hazardous to one's health?
 
unclemick2 said:
Nords


DUH! The little niece is the smartest one - BUT she married a MARINE (lifer).

Who says brains and common sense go together.

:D :D :D :D

Jarhead, who agrees with ReWahoo, that Texas is the best college football team in the country.
 
The only jobs I could enjoy are being a professional sports athlete or a poker player......


I have no idea why my personality limits me to those two things.


So, with that said, I hate selling property tax services.
 
unclemick2,

What I meant by managing your investment / business is do whatever you're good at (not trading or market timing if you're not gifted for that) but have a plan and follow it. Could be selecting commercial RE and leveraging, buying / refurbishing and re-selling props, condos, etc.. whatever. Could simply be LBYM, save and buy Vanguard, that's a plan. They are better plans than others, but have a plan was my message. Dont expect someone else to take care of you.
 
Nords,
Great list and as usual, great insight or maybe foresight is a better term.

Your list can easily be "translated" into any large organization be it military, public service, or corporations; just change a few of the terms and you have a generic list of crap that every big organization shares.

Once you get hit with a 2X4 the reality of what kind of life you are living and what you can expect for the next X number of years, the smart folks find a way out. The folks who are searching for FI and ER are those that "get it." Some people will never have that epiphany and will work until they drop or until they get pushed out the door at normal retirement age.

Some folks will want to work until they can't because they like what they do. I respect that and would like to feel that way about my job; but I don't. I like what I do but am burned out and crispy around the edges. But I don't hate my job; I just dislike working for a corp. with all the BS and all the idiots that get paid 3X what I do making dumb choices about how things should work with no true idea of how things actually work.
 
poyet said:
unclemick2,

What I meant by managing your investment / business is do whatever you're good at (not trading or market timing if you're not gifted for that) but have a plan and follow it. Could be selecting commercial RE and leveraging, buying / refurbishing and re-selling props, condos, etc.. whatever. Could simply be LBYM, save and buy vangard, that's a plan. They are better plans than others, but have a plan was my message. Dont expect someone else to take care of you.

I like the point you made poyet. I keep pondering ways to make money from various activities and I honestly do not see them. The efforts have to relate to activities I am good at and enjoy. I am amazed how I do see that work for friends and relatives of mine. My brother's wife is a dentist and they bought a small office building. Sudenly they are landlords and in RE maintenance. But he is good at that. My brother in law had a small plumbing business which struggled for 25 years. In the last few years it has exploded. A truely remarkable cash flow, adding buildings, equipment and employees and making more every day. And he likes it and is good at it.
So I was "looking" for a plan without realizing that I already had one that works for me. LBYM and saving via Vanguard and various index funds. Its not sexy but over time has proven above average. It does not look as good as the sudden wealth of my BIL but I have other realtives and friends who have done less well. So thats the horse I rode in on and it does work. Just wish I had some sexy stock trade or real estate deal I could talk about, it would make for more interesting party conversations.
 
brewer12345 said:
Nords, a dumb question for you: what's a wardroom and why is it so hazardous to one's health?
Physically it's the officer's dining space/conference room.

It's also the collection of officers, as in "What's the wardroom thinking of now?!?"  As a junior officer working for department heads you have shared misery to encourage teamwork, but as a department head you have to compete a little more directly for shared resources... and perhaps with less teamwork than would be desirable.

As to the hazard, if there are three department heads of the same rank in the same wardroom, one of them will be ranked #3 on fitness reports. If it happens to the same guy more than once, it's going to be very difficult for him to advance. This can adversely influence everyone's relationships.

I've been in good wardrooms more often than the not-so-good wardrooms, but one of the latter will wipe out all fond memories of the former.
 
What I like about my job:

-I work part time and still made more than a hundred grand.
-I get excellent benefits like health insurance, profit sharing, continuing legal education junket expenses, subsidized diet coke, and lots of free lunches.
-I am friends with some of the guys at work and I enjoy BSing with them.
-Legal issues can be interesting.
-My staff likes me and thinks I am funny.
-Security, security, security.

Yet for some reason I still don't like working. It must be that defective work gene.
 
Martha,

I'm with you partly.

I am a government attorney with five weeks of vacation and 10 paid holidays, so you could almost say I work part time.

I have benefits, the most notable of which is health insurance, but I have no profit sharing, but then I don't have to share the deficit either.

I like to BS with my contemporaries too and I don't have to find somebody to bill it to.

Legal issues can be interesting, but most aren't.

My staff thinks I am funny and doggone it, people like me.

Security, security, security unless you listen to all the nattering nabobs of negativity that want to shrink government.

I have the same work gene you have, but I'm okay with it.

setab
 
I spent more time in aggregate trying to figure out what piece of crap from a cafeteria machine I was going to eat at 7pm when I had to work late. It was usually the jimmy dean sausage biscuits by the way.
:LOL: excelent...dont think i ve laughed that much all week
 
That's "Mr. Nattering Nabob of Negativity"... 8)

I can find plenty of things to be skeptical, cynical, etc, about!!

It's part of my "Curmudgeon in training" program.

I've had quite a few "jobs" in my day, and the current on is by far the cleanest, most intellectually challenging, and most highly renumerated one of them all. After a while, though, the politics and bs, and just going in day-after-day for umpti-brazillion days starts to get old. Stupid little kid, defective work gene, nattering nabob, whatever. Looking forward to spending my days in productive beer drinking!! ;)
 

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