Anyone started a marriage while FI

[free4now]

From reading the prenup thread over at:

http://early-retirement.org/forums/index.php?board=10.0

it seems that there aren't that many people that have started marriages at a time when one or the other partner was financially independent (had saved enough to live off savings).

I'm starting this thread to encourage those who have been in that situation to post your experiences...

How did you go about disclosing and setting financial expectations?
What financial arrangements did you make as far as which money to keep separate versus put into the marriage?
If you avoided comingling assets how did you do so?
Did you get a prenup?

 

[Howard]

I owned a house, had a six figure income, tons of cash in the bank, met and married my wife in 4 months.

Not sure what the hell happened, blame it on Male 30 year old hormones, but 30+ years later, never gave prenup a thought, it was , and is , ours.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Same here. Had millions, met and 5 years later married the mother of my child to be. Trust her completely and feel we have a great relationship. Never gave a prenup a first thought. Combined all of our assets within a week or two of getting the hard copy documentation needed to do it.

 

[CZAR 8]

A prenup is an insurance policy on the marriage.
Most people will say its $ well spent, especially if one
has assets,and or FIRED. Do you really know with 100%
certainty, more so as one gets up there in age, that the
person that you are marriaging is doing so with a pure
heart, or is the fact that you are well off somehow fits
into the equation. Mr Trump is a goog example, as he is
often quoted that a prenup is vital. Look at the divorce
rate. Remember: You Marry one Person and Divorce
another.(Dr.Phill).

 

[sailaway]

It is very important that each have own attorney, separate legal representation for prenup to stand up regardless of agreement.

Sailaway

 

[SteveR]

Back on Topic:
"I'm starting this thread to encourage those who have been in that situation to post your experiences..."


How did you go about disclosing and setting financial expectations?

It was pretty obvious that I had more assets than her from the first time she came over to my house. We talked about stuff at a very high level and I only disclosed more detail once we were engaged and the rest after we were married.

We continue to discuss financial plans and expectations. We have had many discussions around goals and how to get there. ER is our major goal right now and we are clear on how to get there and when. I do all the financial stuff and control all the investments. She is just fine with that and does not feel the desire to more around large sums of money and lacks the interest and knowledge to what to do it.


What financial arrangements did you make as far as which money to keep separate versus put into the marriage?

Within a month of being married we combined our cash and other assets into either joint accounts or to fund our individual Trusts which we created. Our goal is to take care of each other first when one or the other dies and then our respective families once we both die. Our day to day accounts are all joint but our retirement accounts and other major assets are in our trusts.

If you avoided comingling assets how did you do so? Living Trusts

Did you get a prenup? She asked about it before we got married and I talked with a lawyer but decided to not go that route. Time will tell if I made the right choice but I wanted to start off the marriage on an equal footing with plans to succeed rather than "yours" or "mine" and with feelings of potential failure on the horizon.

Sure I might get burned again. Been there, done that and know what that is like. But, I also know that marriage takes work and we are both very committed to make this one last. We take each day as it comes with our sights on the future. We both have been through a lot of stress and tragedy in our respective lives and that teaches one much about what is really important in life. The fluff is just noise while the valuable stuff fills your time together.

Living is all about risk management. I choose my way, you choose what works for you.

 

[JohnP]

DW and I were married five years ago.  At that time we were both working and both were essentially FI.  We both retired three years ago, although she still works half time because she wants to.

How did you go about disclosing and setting financial expectations?

     We fully discussed our finances before marriage - I had my finances for before and after retirement worked out in spreadsheets and she liked that format;  therefore, I began to also 'cover' her finances also.  Our basic goal was to live in retirement at the same standard of living as when we worked.  We've been able to comfortably maintain our pre-retirement living standard these past three years. 

What financial arrangements did you make as far as which money to keep separate versus put into the marriage?

     Like SteveR and his wife, we have put both names on our everyday checking accounts and most of the taxable accounts as possible.  We have most of our tax-deferred accounts at Vanguard and have used their Directed Beneficiary form to make the spouse as the primary beneficiary and our kids as secondary beneficiaries.  We do not have Trusts set up. 

If you avoided comingling assets how did you do so?

      We have co-mingled assets like the house and checking accounts.

Did you get a prenup?

     We discussed a prenup with her lawyer - he changed partners and moved his office following our discussion with the result that a first draft was finally delivered a couple days before the wedding.  We decided to bag it since there was no real opportunity to think it over or see my lawyer for a second opinion.  Basically, I think that a prenup is not necessary in this case where the couple has equivalent liquid assets going into the marriage.   


JohnP

 

[free4now]

Great replies... thanks!

 

[renferme]

Divorced in 1994, lost virtually everything to the spouse (thanks to that b**tard attorney and our sh*tty legal system here in PA.
Began a new "accumulation" phase in 1994.
Remarried in 2001, no pre-nupt, never considered it as she has as much money as me and a great job and is a fabulous woman !
Retired in 2004, wife still working.
Life is great !
.
We maintain our separate checking accounts, but created a joint acct.
move money into it every month and pay the bills from the joint.
We bought a house together a few years ago.
I know it's a mistake but neither of us have a will.

 

[SteveR]

...I know it's a mistake but neither of us have a will.

Some of us here have lived through the experience of losing a spouse or SO and all the legal and financial issues that go with it. Get your wills done. Set up your estate documents and get Living Wills, Medical Power of Attny. and trusts if you have enough assets to keep Uncle Sam's paws out of when you both die to protect your kids or other heirs from high taxation rates.

It does not take all that long and will save some huge headaches and heartaches later when the unthinkable does happen. We did all that a few years before my wife died suddenly and it made my living hell a bit more manageable.

 

[free4now]

So nobody is making any attempts to avoid comingling accounts?

 

[mathjak107]

just got married for the 2nd time in june..actually we never even thought about a prenup but since we both had substantial assets lawyer talked us into at least having a prenup to act as safety net in the event of divorce when we went to have new wills made....since we both had assets and no one felt like they were getting a crappy deal we agreed....we still co-mingle everything and hold everything jointly anyway..its more a gentlemans agreement i guess

 

[LRS]

Just want to second SteveR's advice on setting up wills/trusts. I am in the process of dealing with my dad's estate after his sudden death last May. He had everything in his living trust, including instructions for donating organs, his wishes for burial, the whole enchilada. It made the whole process really, really easy. Because I am able to handle everything, there's minimal need for a lawyer. I've only given ours $300 to date (vs. a minimum $2400 for probate.)

My husband and I are in the process of setting up our living trust right now. It's pretty painless. It puts all of the information we need in one place, so if one of us croaks, the other doesn't have to tear the house apart to find documents.

 

[Mr._johngalt]

Just want to second SteveR's advice on setting up wills/trusts. I am in the process of dealing with my dad's estate after his sudden death last May. He had everything in his living trust, including instructions for donating organs, his wishes for burial, the whole enchilada. It made the whole process really, really easy. Because I am able to handle everything, there's minimal need for a lawyer. I've only given ours $300 to date (vs. a minimum $2400 for probate.)

My husband and I are in the process of setting up our living trust right now. It's pretty painless. It puts all of the information we need in one place, so if one of us croaks, the other doesn't have to tear the house apart to find documents.

I think this level of organization is great. I don't have it and
likely never will. My records are spread over 3 states and nothing
much is catalogued. My heirs better hope I live a long time
as maybe it will improve. Or, maybe not...

JG

 

[Sheryl]

Just want to second SteveR's advice on setting up wills/trusts. I am in the process of dealing with my dad's estate after his sudden death last May. He had everything in his living trust, including instructions for donating organs, his wishes for burial, the whole enchilada. It made the whole process really, really easy. Because I am able to handle everything, there's minimal need for a lawyer. I've only given ours $300 to date (vs. a minimum $2400 for probate.)

My dad has set everything up with two trusts. I shouldn't have to do much at all. I really, really appreciate this because I still have not closed my mom's estate after 18 months (they were divorced).

 

[Mr._johngalt]

From reading the prenup thread over at:

http://early-retirement.org/forums/index.php?board=10.0

it seems that there aren't that many people that have started marriages at a time when one or the other partner was financially independent (had saved enough to live off savings).

I'm starting this thread to encourage those who have been in that situation to post your experiences...

How did you go about disclosing and setting financial expectations?
What financial arrangements did you make as far as which money to keep separate versus put into the marriage?
If you avoided comingling assets how did you do so?
Did you get a prenup?

I was fully retired about 3 years before I remarried.  I
didn't have much, but way more than DW.  Prenup was a
MUST!  And, no commingling of any kind.  Everything
is separate, including tax returns, bank accounts, etc.
Expect this to continue forever, even after DW retires
(date uncertain).

JG

 

[lazyday]

I wonder if there's some who have used a prenup, or have avoided comingling in a state where that may be enough, but haven't replied because of the posts against prenups.

Sometimes I think that even the relatively low level of negativity, squabbling, and subtle (and sometimes not so subtle) ridicule on this board can squelch opinion, and lead to groupthink.

Not that the anti-prenup posts I saw were harsh. But combined with negativity elsewhere, and a controversial subject, the quiet doesn't surprise me.

Oh, finally someone (thick skinned JG) has admitted to it, while I was typing.

 

[Mr._johngalt]

I wonder if there's some who have used a prenup, or have avoided comingling in a state where that may be enough, but haven't replied because of the posts against prenups.

Sometimes I think that even the relatively low level of negativity, squabbling, and subtle (and sometimes not so subtle) ridicule on this board can squelch opinion, and lead to groupthink.

Not that the anti-prenup posts I saw were harsh. But combined with negativity elsewhere, and a controversial subject, the quiet doesn't surprise me.

Oh, finally someone (thick skinned JG) has admitted to it, while I was typing.

In case anyone cares (or even if you don't), I've always said pretty
much whatever I wished, whenever I wished. However, I have
become much more inclined to speak my mind as I have aged.
I'm not going to apply for work or run for office, so I just let it fly.
It's a HUGE advantage. My approach
is just tell the truth and let the chips fall where they will.

JG

 

[LRS]

"Sometimes I think that even the relatively low level of negativity, squabbling, and subtle (and sometimes not so subtle) ridicule on this board can squelch opinion, and lead to groupthink."

Yep, I ranked on FireMe about prenups, but I kept quiet about that annuity I bought ...

 

[Sheryl]

Well I didn't jump in. But it was because I'm not retired, and not married or planning to be. Not because I'm scared of the "attacks." It's just the nature of message boards.

Anyway, we don't really see any need or desire to get married. We keep all of our assets completely separate, and share common expenses like food, vacations, housing and utilites. We buy whatever else we want with our own money. At 45 I've had my own finances and don't really have any desire to comingle them. But we both have similar situations and salaries so it works.

 

[Howard]

You guys aren't married, you are Room Mates.

Why bother with Pre Nups, you really don't have committment, either can walk at any time?

Most people move beyond this stage, but Hey , if it works for you guys, go for it.

Children are obviously not part of the equation?

 

[Sheryl]

Well, I never had such great sex with any of my previous roomates, but I get your point. 

And you are correct, there is no point in a pre-nup without a marriage.  But after spending 20 years of non-marriage in my previous relationship, he considered trying to sue me for support when I kicked him out.    Apparently the grounds were going to be that he had been freeloading for so long that he had developed an entitlement to my money.

It is true in my current relationship that either of us could walk away at any time.  But I don't really see the institution of marriage stopping that from happening to couples all around me. 

To answer your question - no kids are invovled -other than SO's 25 year old son from previous marriage.  Part of the reason for keeping our finances somewhat separate would be that he wants his assets to go to his son,  I have other plans for where my estate ends up.

 

[Sue]

My significant other and myself have been together for over twenty years without the benefit of a marriage certificate.  Why?  We never had children, and couldn't stomach the idea of paying the tax marriage penalty.  We'll get married when it makes financial sense.  We do have wills, powers-of-attorney etc in case there is some unforseen problem. 

Just because we aren't married,  doesn't mean we aren't a committed couple.  We've seen each other through some pretty rough times.  I know of several marriages where the partners don't suport each other at all.  In my opinion, it's the relationship, not the marriage certificate, that is important. 

 

[Sheryl]

Thank you Sue. That's what I was TRYING to say.

 

[MJ]

I have stated my opinion in past threads.

I am single (never married) and retired. If I ever got married (fairtales can come true ....) I would get a pre-nup because I am just too naive and therefore, somewhat cautious. 8)
The fear of being a permanent fixture at Walwart until 95, sends shivers down my spine.

If I ever get married and and several weeks later disappear from this forum, send out the hounds and look for a freshly dug mound with a body and old bicycle in it. Paranoid, I don't think so.

MJ