Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 02-25-2014, 01:04 PM   #61
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern IL
Posts: 18,260
Let's compare these two statements from InParadise:

Quote:
Originally Posted by InParadise View Post
... The only horse I have in this race is pursuit of a good discussion that leads to the possibility of learning new things. ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by InParadise View Post
Heh. InParadise has decided that the pain and the effort of this exercise is not balanced by enough reward.
You say you want a 'good discussion', yet you won't back up your statements with even a shred of data/evidence. That's all people asked for - something that would be required for a 'good discussion'.

I've attempted to be open with you, but at this point I will simply call "BS", it appears you simply wanted to brag that you are smarter than most of us, and it cannot be questioned. I doubt anyone is impressed, at least not in a positive sense.

Funny thing, I just read a little ebook that a former boss (later VP in MegaCorp) self-published. One of the chapters was about 'learning', and he said he learned that arrogant people don't learn much, they already think the 'know it all' and are not open to new ideas or challenges to their thoughts. But if you can say "I don't know", you are open to learning.

Good luck - ERD50
__________________

__________________
ERD50 is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 02-25-2014, 01:09 PM   #62
Moderator Emeritus
aja8888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: The Woodlands, TX
Posts: 7,129
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliforniaMan View Post
Creepy but good link for what a "good" FA should do.
3 Ways to Convince Anyone of Anything - wikiHow
The Wiki article reminded me of a good friend of mine who was sold an expensive variable annuity by his FA. My friend was recommending that product for my portfolio and I looked at it (closely) and saw that the REAL fees were up to 4% and went on for a while. Let alone the back end was unknown. I told my friend that the fees were expensive and he said that his FA is a great guy, knows the product, stands behind it, and life is good.

Well, I should have been in sales..............
__________________

__________________
aja8888 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2014, 02:17 PM   #63
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by ERD50 View Post
Let's compare these two statements from InParadise:





You say you want a 'good discussion', yet you won't back up your statements with even a shred of data/evidence. That's all people asked for - something that would be required for a 'good discussion'.

I've attempted to be open with you, but at this point I will simply call "BS", it appears you simply wanted to brag that you are smarter than most of us, and it cannot be questioned. I doubt anyone is impressed, at least not in a positive sense.

Funny thing, I just read a little ebook that a former boss (later VP in MegaCorp) self-published. One of the chapters was about 'learning', and he said he learned that arrogant people don't learn much, they already think the 'know it all' and are not open to new ideas or challenges to their thoughts. But if you can say "I don't know", you are open to learning.

Good luck - ERD50
Wow. You are being rude. Such a wonder why I don't want to make an effort on this thread. Some of you guys have blown this thread way out of proportion, mostly based on poor reading comprehension or checking out partial quotes that don't include all the context.

Freak. This is not a day job and I have no obligation to spend effort informing you, though frankly I would have been happy to share the details of my experience had the initial reception been less hostile. If you want to beat me up for not choosing to play in a game that is slanted against me, go for it. It seems to be the primary joy for some of you. Glad to make your day. Maybe that will make up for the loss of information. I however know when not to waste my time.

Maybe you'll have better luck with the next person if you as a board reply to their initial comments with questions rather than aggressiveness. It was clear pretty much from the start that it was a lost cause discussing my FA experience and I have been trying to back out gracefully ever since. LET IT GO. None of us get paid to be here, (well, I assume anyway,) and frankly for me belligerence and name calling is not an inducement to participate.

I for one am sorry this thread got derailed from the index fund discussion. I thank you who contributed to it initially. As I said earlier I appreciate the links, have done some Googling on some of it, and may even get back to doing my own investing when things get less hectic for me. I would really like to simplify the churn that the FA seems to feel obligated to perform, and make it less of a job to verify our results every month.
__________________
InParadise is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2014, 02:18 PM   #64
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 898
I think we're all prone to cognitive dissonance. We see something contrary to our actions and beliefs and we move to discredit, refute or ignore the opposing actions or views. It's hard to engage in debate when psychologically we're susceptible to defend and attack, sometimes under the purported guise of being open-minded. I see this a lot in threads where we've committed financially to a certain path of conduct.

Nonetheless, I do think there is an unfortunate element of piling on here, which would try anyone's willingness for further debate.
__________________
Someday this war's gonna end . . .
ChrisC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2014, 02:37 PM   #65
Full time employment: Posting here.
CaliforniaMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: San Diego
Posts: 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisC View Post
I think we're all prone to cognitive dissonance. We see something contrary to our actions and beliefs and we move to discredit, refute or ignore the opposing actions or views. It's hard to engage in debate when psychologically we're susceptible to defend and attack, sometimes under the purported guise of being open-minded. I see this a lot in threads where we've committed financially to a certain path of conduct.

Nonetheless, I do think there is an unfortunate element of piling on here, which would try anyone's willingness for further debate.
+1
Agree 100%. I enjoy the a free flow of ideas here. Hope nobody takes anything personally. I for one hate it when people point out where I am wrong. And I really hate it when they are right! But after I cool down, sometimes a very long time later, I appropriate their argument as my own and life goes on.
__________________
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily,
Life is but a dream.
CaliforniaMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2014, 02:48 PM   #66
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliforniaMan View Post
+1
I for one hate it when people point out where I am wrong. And I really hate it when they are right!
Ironically, I don't hate that, particularly on an anonymous internet board where no one actually knows me. I am free to benefit from the wisdom that comes with being shown my errors, RESPECTFULLY, without a blow to ego.

But my days of being managed and told what to do are quite over. That is the beauty of FI.
__________________
InParadise is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2014, 03:24 PM   #67
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ready View Post
Excellent point Midpack, and I'll add one thought. If you were to take the 24% that did outperform the index, and then layer on 1.5% in advisor fees, I suspect the 24% would quickly approach a number very close to zero.
I didn't notice if anyone had responded to this, so forgive me if this is a repeat. I am re-reading the thread.

One of the conclusions of the article was:
Active managers outperform the index by 0.12% before fees, but charge more in fees than the value they create
So the article did in fact state that as a group Active Manager aren't worth the fees they charge. It also concluded that when you added risk, active vs index performance was a total wash. Risk is a little more subjective than returns so YMMV.

This is actually the best showing for active managers I have ever seen. When I was in marketing classes in college we were shown a similar study with data from 30 years ago. Active management seemed to perform far worse back then because fees were much higher than today. The point of the class discussion was how were we, as future money managers, going to justify our cost to our future clients. I was only getting a minor in business, my major was System Analysis. So I thought the spin the actual business majors were trying to put on the data was unethical and highly misleading.
__________________
This sig intentionally left blank.
gozer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2014, 03:25 PM   #68
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern IL
Posts: 18,260
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliforniaMan View Post
... I for one hate it when people point out where I am wrong. And I really hate it when they are right! ....
I love it when people point out where I am wrong! Why would I want to go through life believing things that are wrong? If they are right, and tell me, then I learned something. Didn't many of us pay big $$ for education, or learn it the hard way?

InParadise -sorry if you felt I was rude. But if you look at your posts, can you see how some of us could see it as you 'came out swinging' with big claims? And then you shrug off any questions about these claims?

How would you respond to that?

Please notice that several posters who question the active/passive debate provided data. Up to you if you want to back your position with data, but if you make a big claim, and then refrain from backing it up, people are going to think what they are going to think.

-ERD50
__________________
ERD50 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2014, 03:37 PM   #69
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by ERD50 View Post

InParadise -sorry if you felt I was rude. But if you look at your posts, can you see how some of us could see it as you 'came out swinging' with big claims? And then you shrug off any questions about these claims?

How would you respond to that?
-ERD50
At this point my response would be a simple "Whatever." By post 10 it was repeatedly made clear that providing data would be pointless, that without subjective verification of said data, you all would continue to be Doubting Thomas-es. Reply was pointless for any other than the masochistic. Hey, I have a teenager at home. Sometimes the most valid approach is simply to shut down the argument.

I think it surprising I kept my cool as long as I did. Maybe another time, another thread. Definitely far from receptive to sharing now. If that means you have an erroneous bad impressions of me? Whatever.

By the way, an apology followed by "but" is no apology at all.
__________________
InParadise is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2014, 03:43 PM   #70
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by InParadise View Post
At this point my response would be a simple "Whatever." By post 10 it was repeatedly made clear that providing data would be pointless, that without subjective verification of said data, you all would continue to be Doubting Thomas-es. Reply was pointless for any other than the masochistic. Hey, I have a teenager at home. Sometimes the most valid approach is simply to shut down the argument.

Maybe another time, another thread. Definitely far from receptive from sharing now. If that means you have an erroneous bad impressions of me? Whatever.
How is the name(s) of your "top load based funds without paying the loads" subjective?
__________________
This sig intentionally left blank.
gozer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2014, 03:47 PM   #71
Moderator
Walt34's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Eastern WV Panhandle
Posts: 16,494
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocdokie View Post
These remarks raised the hairs on the back of my neck. They are startlingly like things that people said when they "invested" with Bernie Madoff, as reported in "No One Would Listen" by Harry Markopolos, the analyst who sounded the alarm on Madoff years before the Ponzi scheme collapsed.
Indeed it does have all the earmarks; secrecy, only dealing by word of mouth, nice guy. All reminiscent of the cases in the American Greed thread.

Not to say that is the case here (I sure hope not!) but a very high state of watchfulness would be in order. Therefore the statement that "It's nice not to have to deal with investments anymore" is troubling.
__________________
I heard the call to do nothing. So I answered it.
Walt34 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2014, 03:59 PM   #72
Moderator Emeritus
aja8888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: The Woodlands, TX
Posts: 7,129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walt34 View Post

Not to say that is the case here (I sure hope not!) but a very high state of watchfulness would be in order. Therefore the statement that "It's nice not to have to deal with investments anymore" is troubling.
It's like my Dad said a long time ago...."better keep YOUR EYE on those investments or you may be looking for work again some day".....
__________________
aja8888 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2014, 04:09 PM   #73
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walt34 View Post

Not to say that is the case here (I sure hope not!) but a very high state of watchfulness would be in order. Therefore the statement that "It's nice not to have to deal with investments anymore" is troubling.
I monitor them, I crunch the numbers to make sure that the calculated benchmark based on our specific portfolio allocation is accurate. Between DH and I you have an engineer and a research chemist. I am trained to analyze data and question assumptions. Number crunching for us is pretty much a reflex not worthy of much consideration on our part, so perhaps I minimized it too much given you have no clue who we are. This is a whole lot less work than before.

Honestly, the thing that would get me back to dealing with our own investments, perhaps indeed as index funds to minimize time input, would be the work I have to put in to verify our returns. All in all, I would rather be kayaking than dealing extensively with this, and I have started to get tired of verifying his every move, because there are so very many to verify. Additionally, being able to predict taxes will be very important to us when we retire fully in a couple of years. It is an issue we will broach with our FP when we meet next week. Sometimes I wonder if they make it more complicated than necessary to justify their fee, or even obfuscate the returns, but my re-analysis of the returns does back up their reports. If I can keep the good returns and lower my time spent with the funds, I would be all for that, but considering I went from Mechanical Investing with wild turbulence and very high returns, (TMF tutored, not my creation,) to a more conservative approach overnight, it made sense to hand it off to someone who was performing well until I figure out if I should take it back over. I am slammed right now and we analytical types can be subject to analysis paralysis, which does not tend to be good for the portfolio.

Given how much I loved Mechanical Investing, an approach similar to but more conservative than the "Gone Fishin'" portfolio may work well for me. But I would be sorry to leave behind the many services our FP does besides the portfolio maintenance.
__________________
InParadise is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2014, 04:16 PM   #74
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 13,252
Quote:
Originally Posted by InParadise View Post
At this point my response would be a simple "Whatever." By post 10 it was repeatedly made clear that providing data would be pointless, that without subjective verification of said data, you all would continue to be Doubting Thomas-es. Reply was pointless for any other than the masochistic. Hey, I have a teenager at home. Sometimes the most valid approach is simply to shut down the argument.

I think it surprising I kept my cool as long as I did. Maybe another time, another thread. Definitely far from receptive to sharing now. If that means you have an erroneous bad impressions of me? Whatever.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gozer View Post
How is the name(s) of your "top load based funds without paying the loads" subjective?


I am in the plus one on this.... If your stmt is true, then just posting your top 3 or 5 MF holdings would go a long way in this discussion...

I just wanted to take a look at the fee structure of these funds... pretty simple if I knew which ones they were...


To be fair, here are mine...

VPMAX Primecap
VTCLX Tax managed Cap appriciation
VCVLX Capital Value
VSEQX Strategic Equity
VEXAX Extended Market Index


Then it starts into some more index funds....


Took me all of 2 minutes to get them.....
__________________
Texas Proud is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2014, 04:31 PM   #75
Full time employment: Posting here.
CaliforniaMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: San Diego
Posts: 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by InParadise View Post
Given how much I loved Mechanical Investing, an approach similar to but more conservative than the "Gone Fishin'" portfolio may work well for me. But I would be sorry to leave behind the many services our FP does besides the portfolio maintenance.
A lot of us here have have spent considerable time in the market, myself since college in 1968, so of course there are some strong opinions.

IMO most of what has been said here can be boiled down to four points:

1) FAs over the long term cannot do better than chance either in stock selection or in timing.

2) A reasonable withdrawal rate is around 4% and giving 25% of your income to a FA seems unreasonable to most of us here considering point 1.

3) You are obviously a very intelligent person. You can do better for yourself, on your own.

4) Whatever other things your FA is doing for this 25% of your future income could likely be done by yourself or someone like a good CPA for a lot less.
__________________
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily,
Life is but a dream.
CaliforniaMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2014, 04:50 PM   #76
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Proud View Post
I am in the plus one on this.... If your stmt is true, then just posting your top 3 or 5 MF holdings would go a long way in this discussion...

I just wanted to take a look at the fee structure of these funds... pretty simple if I knew which ones they were...


To be fair, here are mine...

VPMAX Primecap
VTCLX Tax managed Cap appriciation
VCVLX Capital Value
VSEQX Strategic Equity
VEXAX Extended Market Index


Then it starts into some more index funds....


Took me all of 2 minutes to get them.....
As I have previously stated, our holdings fluctuate with way too much frequency for me to tell you on which funds the focus is. There are literally dozens of them...I primarily pay attention to returns, rather than positions. We do not get charged for churn or ANY mutual fund fees. And yes, I asked this specifically when he broached the subject, fee by fee, because I found it hard to believe, but that is one of those data points the doubting Thomas will continue to doubt until they see it on Moses' tablets. I could certainly tell you some of our positions, but I am not sure that would tell you the whole story.

Some (today) include: AMERICAN FUNDS EUROPACIFIC GR F-1 (AEGFX)

FIDELITY ADVISOR LEVERAGED COMPANY STOCK FUND CLASS A (FLSAX)

FIRST EAGLE OVERSEAS FUND CLASS A (SGOVX)

JOHN HANCOCK DISCIPLINED VALUE MID CAP FUND CLASS A (JVMAX)

JP MORGAN LARGE CAP GROWTH FUND CLASS A (OLGAX)

PIMCO SMALL CAP STOCKS PLUS AR STRATEGY FUND A (PCKAX)
RYDEX S&P MIDCAP 400 PURE GROWTH FUND CLASS A (RYMGX)
SUNAMERICA FOCUSED DIVIDEND STRATEGY FUND A (FDSAX)
FRANKLIN/TEMPLETON GLOBAL BOND FUND CLASS A (TPINX)

Well, OK, that was a PITA to edit down so that you didn't see all the other info that copied and pasted with, but since you asked so nicely...
__________________
InParadise is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2014, 05:07 PM   #77
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliforniaMan View Post
A lot of us here have have spent considerable time in the market, myself since college in 1968, so of course there are some strong opinions.

IMO most of what has been said here can be boiled down to four points:

1) FAs over the long term cannot do better than chance either in stock selection or in timing.

2) A reasonable withdrawal rate is around 4% and giving 25% of your income to a FA seems unreasonable to most of us here considering point 1.

3) You are obviously a very intelligent person. You can do better for yourself, on your own.

4) Whatever other things your FA is doing for this 25% of your future income could likely be done by yourself or someone like a good CPA for a lot less.
1. Wasn't that the "average" FA? Who says my guy is "average?" We may have been more lucky than good in finding this guy, but I suspect he is above average. He is good enough to make us happy at this time.

2. Withdrawal rate does not equal income.

3. Maybe when I have less on my plate, if DH can avoid the need to micromanage something he knows so very little about. The fights over self-management were not worth it. This is way more relaxing and cheaper than a divorce.

4. And just when do you actually retire? The most prized benefit above and beyond managing our accounts is knowing that we have things set up so our teens will have someone guiding them if we get hit by a bus. Our siblings are useless. He was great when I was dealing with Dad's estate, and if the boys are in the position of needing a helping hand because we are no longer there, with no extra charge, btw, they have one. I'm not naive enough to think that his motivation isn't bringing more assets to the firm and cementing his position with the kids as their FA, but in a crunch, one which we hope never to have to deal with, it's a blessing. He has a list of our assets outside of the account, details on where to find paperwork, and how we would like to see the boys guided in our absence. He can't be trustee, but he can advise, and no doubt he will advise saving for retirement/investment, which works for us. Most of our assets are retirement accounts, so no real need to set up a trust, and he will handle the RMDs. If the kids blow their inheritance, that is their bad. We've already instilled the values we can, and they will need to carry them out or do what they think best. If there is some other professional that can take over this job for free, please tell me. Always ready to investigate better avenues.
__________________
InParadise is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2014, 05:26 PM   #78
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Midpack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 11,963
We know about 20% of advisors will beat the indexes after fees, and the balance will not. Unfortunately past performance does not guarantee they'll continue to do so, some will, some won't. And we know that even pros can't identify those who will consistently beat the averages long term. So passive investing is conceding the odds are about 4 to 1 against us matching indexes with an FA.

I can well understand why you can't share who your FA is, but what exactly were you hoping we'd learn, that's still a mystery to me? That we're just not trying hard enough? Do you have advice on how to reliably pick exceptional FAs? If not...

I am sure you know the old adage by the time you know enough to pick a good advisor, you don't need one.
__________________
No one agrees with other people's opinions; they merely agree with their own opinions -- expressed by somebody else. Sydney Tremayne
Retired Jun 2011 at age 57

Target AA: 60% equity funds / 35% bond funds / 5% cash
Target WR: Approx 2.5% Approx 20% SI (secure income, SS only)
Midpack is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2014, 05:33 PM   #79
Full time employment: Posting here.
CaliforniaMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: San Diego
Posts: 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by InParadise View Post
As I have previously stated, our holdings fluctuate with way too much frequency for me to tell you on which funds the focus is. There are literally dozens of them...I primarily pay attention to returns, rather than positions. We do not get charged for churn or ANY mutual fund fees. And yes, I asked this specifically when he broached the subject, fee by fee, because I found it hard to believe, but that is one of those data points the doubting Thomas will continue to doubt until they see it on Moses' tablets. I could certainly tell you some of our positions, but I am not sure that would tell you the whole story.

Some (today) include: AMERICAN FUNDS EUROPACIFIC GR F-1 (AEGFX)

FIDELITY ADVISOR LEVERAGED COMPANY STOCK FUND CLASS A (FLSAX)

FIRST EAGLE OVERSEAS FUND CLASS A (SGOVX)

JOHN HANCOCK DISCIPLINED VALUE MID CAP FUND CLASS A (JVMAX)

JP MORGAN LARGE CAP GROWTH FUND CLASS A (OLGAX)

PIMCO SMALL CAP STOCKS PLUS AR STRATEGY FUND A (PCKAX)
RYDEX S&P MIDCAP 400 PURE GROWTH FUND CLASS A (RYMGX)
SUNAMERICA FOCUSED DIVIDEND STRATEGY FUND A (FDSAX)
FRANKLIN/TEMPLETON GLOBAL BOND FUND CLASS A (TPINX)

Well, OK, that was a PITA to edit down so that you didn't see all the other info that copied and pasted with, but since you asked so nicely...
I am sorry InParadise but what you said in this post is so scary on so many levels that I had to do a quick check on Morningstar:

Fund Load Expenses
AEGFX 0.00 0.85%
FLSAX 5.75 1.10%
SGOVX 5.00 1.15%
JVMAX 5.00 1.27%
OLGAX 5.25 1.09%
PCKAX 5.93 1.09%
RYMGX 4.75 1.50%
FDSAX 5.75 0.98%
TPINX 4.25 0.86%

I was wrong in my previous comment you are not paying 25% of your reasonable withdrawal rate in retirement, it is closer to 50%.

Think about it. These are managed funds! Why would you have so many? How many unique holdings are there between funds? And even more concerning is why you would be switching between funds daily. The ONLY reason I can think of, this is the scary part, is that it makes it very difficult for you to see what you are actually paying. The fund is charging you 1% to manage the holdings, and your FA is charging you 1% to manage these managed funds. And as you say, they are changing too fast for you to keep track. Do you really know you are not paying any load? Other than what he says?

Look I don't have any skin in this game, I am not trying to prove you wrong and me right, but for goodness sake, please, what your FA is doing does not make sense. Well yes it does make sense, that is what is scary.
__________________
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily,
Life is but a dream.
CaliforniaMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2014, 05:39 PM   #80
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by Midpack View Post
We know about 20% of advisors will beat the indexes after fees, and the balance will not.
Huh?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Midpack View Post
I can well understand why you can't share who your FA is, but what exactly were you hoping we'd learn...
As I stated pretty darned early on, post 3 IIRC, that you need to focus on net return after fees and expenses are accounted for, not simply keeping expenses and fees as low as possible. Not really rocket science, so I'm not sure why it caused such a furor.
__________________

__________________
InParadise is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Excessive CC fees...is this even legal? (Nat'l City) thefed FIRE and Money 17 11-06-2008 10:39 AM
Excessive global pool of money - now what? WM FIRE and Money 13 10-10-2008 08:10 AM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:36 PM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.