Kids and Career Paths

[MichealKnight]

I may get flamed for the following and that's cool - I welcome and am thankful for any opinions from people more experienced in life than I. I'd like to say I'm not saying one size fits all. I'm not saying money is everything. I'm merely speaking from my experience, and my point of view.

Us: DW stay home Mom. No college degree for me, and retired 2 years ago@45. Due to some stuff (some my fault, some bad luck) I didn't do as well as I should have - - but I think I put away enough to be okay in life. Net worth excluding residence is $3 mill. (This is after 2 years of spending and negative investment returns.)

14 yo DD thus far shows good things academically - 100% opposite of me. It's only 9th grade - but doing well in multiple Honors Classes, works hard, good grades, etc. She has always talked about being a schoolteacher. Again - not denigrating it. It's noble. Heck - my 10 yo DS has special needs and every single year I'm so thankful for the heart those teachers put into the job.

However, yes, I think about money alot. Part of that is upbringing - previous generations were business folk, period. I started lemonade stands when I was 9, had jobs since I was 10, never asked parents for money since I was 14. My kid sister is a senior corporate attorney - - my cousins - many are 7 figure wall-street types, the one altruistic one is still a Master's in Sociology and among her pursuits was intimate meeting with Australia's Prime Minister regarding refugees - point being, most of us *had* to, and wanted to do well -- - and did well. We were taught unabashedly growing up: Go for the money and success. And when you've made it - do things to help others which most of us, in our quiet ways did - albeit some more than others. All of "the kids" in our group - are long term married, happy, etc. So it's not the situation where there's lots of money - but also booze and dysfunction and misery. Life - overall - is good .

So I'll just say it - I realize we can't force kids into a career. And I realize we're all different. And yes in the end - like any parent I just want her happy and content. BUT -- - I worry about her money situation if she continues down that path.

My "right hand man" when I owned my business was a great woman. StayHome Mom who returned to work to put her daughter thru school. I hired her years ago, and in entry level she made $90k a year, progressed to $160k and today she isn't retired - she works in our old industry making $200k and her employer loves her.

Her daughter became a teacher - replete with Master's and my friend tells me "I'm proud of her. But dammit - she makes less than one of our 1st-year sales reps who barely got out of high school! "

Is money everything? No. And put aside that DD - while we *never* buy designer brands, etc for her or us...... we always had a charmed life: New cars, nice houses, nice vacations, eating out, never worrying about money. I know I'm getting way ahead of myself but I wonder - someone who has lived that way..., can they truly adjust to life of $50k a year? even 60, 70, 80k?

This morning en route to school she was telling me about becoming a tutor, and early childhood education and of course I was sincerely glad she's thinking about that stuff. But in my brain I was saying "Dude, with your grades and stuff....ok you dont have to be a scuzzy sales/business guy like me....but heck look at engineering, looking at a business degree, do something that makes some money!!!"

It's only 9th grade. And I've heard people change their minds as time goes on. Again I clarify I am NOT NOT denigrating a teaching profession -I AM however worried that I don't want my daughter to go thru college and then barely be able to afford a townhouse payment. BUT I'm also cognizant - you can't force someone into a career path. Cursory research - the tiny optimist in me feels ok - good colleges, Master's level - ok that might mean teaching in a good, well ranked, higher paying district. Who knows maybe some administrator job one day. Maybe a side tutoring business. But again - that's how I think - - I can't force DD to think that way. Again she's just 9th grade too - - who knows how many times her mind may change.

With my 'shortened' success in business - I won't have a big trust fund or legacy to leave my kids so it's of paramount concern to me that they can have fruitful lives on their own- - including financially .


Curious if folks here ever had consternation over kids career or education choices.

Yes, money doesn't buy happiness.

But - it's a good down payment. That - I do believe.

 

[Aerides]

Leave her alone, other than to offer your support and encouragement. That stuff you're saying only in your brain is on your face. She's looking for your cue, and your approval.

9th grade is very young, it's also the beginning of a very difficult time - being a teenage girl. She may well have been attracted to education because of her brother, and because of your comments around career, money, success over the years - assuming any of the rest of what you've said here has been overheard at home, kids hear and process a lot more than their parents realize.

One thing I'd stress. "I had slip ups I want you to avoid" is not a good idea, no matter your good intentions. Growing up includes mistakes. Most people become better, stronger, more successful, more well rounded in life, by dealing with mistakes, disappointments, changes.

 

[Jerry1]

There's good money to be made in every profession - even teaching. She could become the superintendent of a major school system or even a university. Don't try to take away the opportunity for her to do what she might actually love doing. So few get that opportunity. Plus, people who love what they do seem to find a way to make it work financially. But, I'm a believer that if you love what you do, they money will come.

 

[athena53]

When I talk to my granddaughters, age 6 and 8, about careers (3-year old brother isn't ready yet), I stress finding something you want to do that pays enough for you to live decently. DDIL is a SAHM and she's fantastic at it, but she got an Associate's Degree in Accounting and worked on the office of a car dealership before the kids were born and had an apartment with her sister and another young woman, so she had some adulting experience. She had some student loans but my guess is that they've long since been paid off. I'm hoping I'll be able to fully fund the kids' education so that at least if they choose something noble but low-paying, such as social work, they won't be saddled with $200,000 in loans.

DS was a Math major and decided against teaching after doing his student teaching- pretty much decided the inmates were running the asylum. He's about to transition from being a claims adjuster to an actuarial position.

So yes, at this point your daughter is trying out ideas and may gravitate to what she knows. I didn't like Math in 9th grade. I became an actuary. Just keep the dialogue going and emphasize the need to be self-supporting.

The 6-year old told me last year "I want to be a doctor". I said that was a lot of work but there are doctors in the family and she could do that. She followed up with, "Or I might want to work at the front desk of a hotel."

 

[sengsational]

I've got two daughters and they're both graduated and both have post grad degrees attained concurrent with their employment. My approach when they were growing up was always "when you go to college" not "if". And that you don't go to college as it was a job training program, you go to college to explore and grow up, and enjoy that phase of life, which is unique and valuable.

Both had aptitude for anything they wanted to pursue, including degrees that paid a lot and degrees that are more of a challenge to step into a good paying job.

One daughter earned an art degree. When she graduated, her SO needed another year, so, because her assigned assistantship job (cushy university offered job for spending money) was help desk, she got a job at an upstart doing help desk. In about a week, they said "you could help more if we put you over here" in another job. Well, that kept happening, and now she's director of data analytics.

The moral of the story for you, OP, is that you can't presume to be able to predict that just because your daughter, still a "baby" in one perspective, likes the idea of teaching now, so will end up in a financial struggle. Even if teaching is the first job, as long as she's financially responsible, she can be very happy. Or a life partner that, uh hem, let's her stay home with the kids (that right there is worth all the tea in China). I'd say offer no direct advice because she already knows where your head is at. Or maybe 99% love and support, and 1% gentle pointing out things she might not be unaware of.

 

[aaronc879]

Teacher pay varies a lot from district to district and state to state. I was shocked when I found out that senior teachers in my lower cost of living city were making $75K/yr+. That is very good money IMO especially with Summers off, vacation during Winter and Spring, no nights or weekends except a little at home work as needed. Starting pay is a bit low but if she gets a Master's and goes to the right district she can do pretty well. Some even still have pensions which are worth a lot. There is generally very good job security. A person can do a lot worse than a Teacher career. She can always do some side work if she wants to with the weekends and Summers off. I wouldn't push her out of the career she wants. It could ruin your relationship with her forever for no good reason.

 

[The Cosmic Avenger]

My aunt was a teacher (and single mom) in NYC, became a supervisor, proctored tests any time she could for extra money, and has a NW in the low eight digits, although that's partially from being overly cheap, so I'm assuming if she was merely frugal like most of us she could have reached the low to mid seven digits.

 

[The Cosmic Avenger]

Also, one thing I've told young people looking at careers is to follow their interests, but look for intersections. For example, I had a colleague ask me to talk to her niece about IT careers, and she told me she was also interested in economics, but wasn't sure which to pursue. I told her: pursue both as much as you can! There are probably a fair number of skilled economists and IT professionals, but if she can program her own economic models, she'll be able to do it better than anyone with only one of those specialties, and/or eventually she can talk to those interested in it about what technologies are best for doing so. And there will probably be demand in IT for people who know economics and demand in economics for people who know IT, so she could look for work in either field.

So, tl;dr, she should also take classes in another of her interests in addition to education, that would give her an advantage in that niche and double her opportunities.

 

[StillFiguringItOut]

I strongly encouraged my son, now 24, to start college with the hardest major possible, since it’s always possible to go easier, but much harder to go more challenging. He’s now a computer engineer getting paid an outrageous (to me) salary.

My daughter has non-verbal learning disabilities, so most STEM fields would be extremely challenging. She is about to graduate (woohoo!) at the end of this month with a double major BA. She’s not scored a job yet, but she did extremely well with both of her majors and we are optimistic she’ll find something rewarding.

Ninth grade is still very young to pick any field of study. Your main job at this point is to continue to encourage and support her emotionally and academically, and if possible, expose her to fields of study that play to her strengths. Friends, acquaintances, neighbors, etc. that are willing to speak with her about what they do for a living would be great.

Good luck!

 

[pacergal]

She is exploring her interests, which may or may not change over the years. OK to have the talks about careers, cost of living, etc, but not ok to point/push her in another direction--let her figure things out on her own.
As parents, we always worry about our kids futures (at least I did/do).

Both of my kids ended up in the teaching professions, not making big bucks, but they are doing what they find joy in.
DD is in early ed--didn't surprise me as she always wanted to "be a mom". She has thought of nursing in the past. Currently she is loving life as a SAHM.

DS surprised the heck out of me by teaching, as he always was interested in Political Science and considered law school. He graduated HS and college 3 years earlier than his peers, got his Masters, joined Americorps, did some other social work, got his second masters in teaching. COVID years were tough as he had been sub teaching. But he currently is at a wonderful HS and really enjoys his job.

I am proud as heck in both of them. They are living life joyfully and can pay their bills!

 

[Gumby]

The young wife was a middle and high school teacher for 30 years. The pay and benefits were very good. She was making over $100k when she retired in 2019. She never aspired to administration, wanting only to be in the classroom with the kids, but if she had, she would have made substantially more. Now, she has an excellent COLA'd pension and could have subsidized health care if she weren't on mine.

More importantly, she got to do something every day that she loved doing and felt was important to our society. Not all that many people get to do that. Yes, we need to make enough money to be materially satisfied with our lives, but we need more than that.

So, I would not try to push your daughter away from teaching if that is where her interest lies. She can have a solidly middle class life, and certainly won't be a pauper. And, as others have mentioned, she is young and she might eventually want to do something else.

 

[Irishgirlyc58]

When my oldest son was a senior in high school and we were looking at colleges he said he planned on majoring in “film” whatever that meant.
I remember calling my mom (I was a single mother) practically in tears because he had said this and how was he ever going to get a job and support himself with that type of degree.
My mom said in a very calm voice that it didn’t matter what his degree was in as long as he got one.
He went on and majored in history.
He now-wait for it…teaches 3rd grade. You just never know what your kids will decide.

My mom was also an elementary school teacher for 40 years.
She has a degree in economics. My grandfather wanted her to be a CPA.

My sister is a special education teacher. Her degree was criminal justice.
All three teachers in my family prefer teaching in the classroom and being with the kids as opposed to moving up to administration. They love their jobs.
My mom worked until she was 69 because she loved what she did and couldn’t imagine not working.

I on the other hand worked in government- mainly social services which isn’t lucrative pay but I worked my way up through administration to the director position. I made good money and loved my job until maybe the last 2-3 years. Then it went downhill quickly.
I can’t imagine working with small children every day. I didn’t even like bring your kid to work day.

I understand your worry. Been there done that. But from my experience teaching is a calling for some people and they would be miserable doing anything else.
If you are miserable you won’t be successful.

Of course as others have said she could change her mind a million times between now and when she is actually in the workforce. And that’s ok. It will also be ok if she stays with the teaching.

 

[braumeister]

I still don't know what I want to do if and when I grow up.

 

[rodi]

I have two kids in college. They are very different from each other. OS is more introvert, nerd (in a good way). He's a math major but not sure what he wants to do with it. (Started out as chem major but realized he loved math more than chem.) I'm advising him to take applied math courses in upper division to see if any alternatives to teaching jump out at him. Younger son is a total extrovert and is a business major. It's a good fit for him.

My advise to them in middle and high school was that college plans should have a path to a career. (Not necessarily 'job training' as mentioned above) but if the passion was for art or music or english lit to have an idea of what jobs/careers could be done with that BA. To know the payscales. In other words - to have a plan for post-college. If it meant going an extra year to get a teaching credential - so be it. Older son may end up as a teacher... it's something we've talked about as an option.

Not everyone is cut out to be a sales type or an engineer type. Younger son could definitely succeed at sales... Older son would not. It's not all about money... but long term career ideas should be considered when picking a major.

 

[Ncc1701]

I live in New York where 15+ year teachers are pulling in six figures, free healthcare, a pension, and a guaranteed 7% return in their 403B. Not to mention 3 months off of holiday time annually.

 

[Gumby]

Neither the young wife nor I ended up doing what we studied in college or started out doing in our 20's. She started as a fashion designer and became a teacher. I started as a submariner and nuclear engineer and became a lawyer. We still retired early. Life is long and there are many possibilities.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

We have one who went in a high demand field and one who is more a do what you love type. They both are self supporting, saving money and happy with their career choices. Do what you love jobs are fine as long as long as the people in them aren't big spenders and can still maintain a LBYM lifestyle.

 

[retire48in2018]

Perhaps a compromise point -

Have a structured review of budgets and income. How much does she know about your income, expenses, and life choices. Perhaps with full, or more information - people might make different decisions. There are a few different ways to neutrally have information provided - including typical income by profession and what that means to a budget

On the other hand, I seem to remember that school teachers did quite well in the millionaire next door studies?

I think getting relevant data, timely, might help both of you.

 

[Walt34]

Not having any kids I can't address the OP's concerns directly, but I can say that until my senior year in high school I didn't have the foggiest idea of what I was doing to do. And as far as college degrees go, sometimes it doesn't matter - the police department where I worked required a college degree for any promotion but they didn't care what subject that degree was in. They wanted that wide range of disciplines and knowledge. And yes, one of the guys I worked with was a history major and had been a school teacher. He retired as a Major.

In my first few months after the academy, I had a cattle rustling case. Now, I grew up in suburbia, thought a pile of milk bottles in a field was a cow's nest, and knew nothing of cattle. (Okay, it wasn't quite that bad but you get the idea.) Anyway, my "go-to guy" on this topic was the station commander, who had a degree in Animal Husbandry. I had no idea there was such a thing! I generally enjoyed my career although there were certainly some bad days.

To drive home the point further, one of the smartest people I've ever met has no formal education beyond high school. But he's one of the most sought-after A&P (aircraft & powerplant) mechanics around, has an Airline Transport Rating, has done a fair bit of corporate flying, and is one of the most gifted flight instructors I've ever seen. You don't get to sit in the left front seat of somebody's multi-million dollar jet by being stupid. He's a bit over 70 now and has no plans to retire because he still loves his job(s).

To the OP, I'd say relax; your daughter is going to do just fine.

 

[Mark1]

As noted above, there are lots of positives with being a teacher, but I'll add one more comment. I have known several individuals that got advanced degrees will working and it seems the only ones that got automatic raises in pay once their additional schooling was completed were teachers.

 

[MichealKnight]

Thanks!!

Everyone, thank you for the replies, I've read them multiple times keep them coming. SORT of on the same note....

9th Grade DD is running a 3.6 GPA. Mostly A's - - the sole B's are in Honors Math, and Honors Bio. Mind you - the Bio teacher, and counselor and other parents all told us - Advanced Bio is very very hard in 9th.

Question - - as far as getting into the best college possible - -- - is it a strategy to NOT take advanced courses - and pump up GPA? Or - taking advanced and having a tad lower GPA?

DD - is going to have major scoliosis surgery in summer. Of course - we and she are really scared and it is interfering with her sleep, diet, etc.....so frankly I'm impressed with her 3.6.

I was just under impression that the 'above average' schools demand 4.0+ and that 3.6 won't cut it.

Any opinions? Thanks (I've never ever applied to nor gone to college so I dont know)

 

[livingalmostlarge]

I'd support it. As long as they love what they do. Might also help I've lived in only HCOLA and teachers are paid WELL where I live. My friend's with masters are pulling in 6 figure teacher incomes on the coasts. So I'm not exactly sure why you think they don't make much.

That being said my aunt, uncle were teachers and retired at 53 and 54 (due to illness or else my aunt at 74 would still be teaching!) with pensions and bring home $10k+ a month between their Pensions and SS. They also have a paid for home worth a million and a million+ cash in the bank. They can't spend what they make and saved nothing for retirement. The $1m cash came from these 20 years of not spending what they brought home. Did I also mention they have free medical for life including remibursement for medicare? So $0 OOP and they have spent welll over $5M on my aunt's hospitalizations due to MS.

My mom was a Social worker. low pay right? Yep. Barely saved? Yep. Retired at 55 (now she's 71). couple million in homes, couple million in cash and a pension + SS that brings home about $10k/month plus the free medical for her and my dad for life. Everything is gravy.

It was hard to pay for stuff while I was growing up and she was a single parent for the first decade plus of my life. But wowie she's done well on a social workers salary. And now?

If my kids chose to do something like those two careers well I'm pretty sure it's fine.

The pensions and benefits often of these government or state jobs are out of sight.

 

[Walt34]

The pensions and benefits often of these government or state jobs are out of sight.

Well, caution and awareness is called for here. I did okay where I worked, but here in WV, things are not all that good for public service jobs. I don't think any of them are going to be living under bridges, but they're generally not going to be taking any 'round-the-world cruises either. When I saw what the education requirements and pay for police officers is I was greatly dismayed. And this part of WV is having a very hard time attracting and keeping teachers since a 20-minute drive to VA or MD will almost double their pay. One certainly can't blame them for that.

 

[MichealKnight]

Mostlarge and others- who mentioned frugality and responsible living - yes that resonates and I appreciate it. As I said at start - I've been lucky, for the most part my business life went well so we've had a nice lifestyle. But we are always showing the kids how Mom doesn't have the $2000 handbags like the others do - because we prioritize differently. Kids get allowances and they have to put 20% in their "Pay Myself first" envelope for savings. On a regular basis I show her how we saved with coupons, or used a certain credit card to maximize points earnings, or how we pick the weekend restaurant based on the deal offered, etc etc. Then when we do nice stuff - (lux travel for instance) we remind DD that this costed extra - but it was working, saving - and doing all the coupon and discount stuff...that enabled us to do a nice trip. Also showing her that we're as happy eating cereal at home (lol I just did), as we are having lobster at a nice place - -- - nice stuff is fun -- but it doesn't make "us". She is also in the room sometimes when CNBC is playing, and at times she asks me about savings strategies - I show her stuff like BankRate.Com, have her "advise" me on which CD might be the best, etc etc.

Who knows, maybe it will take . I'm trying. And I want to do better.

 

[jollystomper]

The thing to remember about a "career" - is not the just "career-specific" skills, it is those "soft" general skills that will also dictate a lot of how your career (and related earnings) go. For example:

- The ability to communicate effectively, both orally and written.
- The desire to be a "problem solver".
- Showing respect for others, even when (perhaps especially) when you disagree with them.
- Not gossiping.
- Giving credit where credit is due.
- Understanding the difference between "confidence" and "ego".

Although I knew from high school that I wanted a career in "data processing" (as IT was called back then), and I had the desire and skill to develop related math, programming, and engineering skills, those "soft skills" above is what really made my career successful. So along with career advice, I would start instilling those things in your kids as soon as you can.