At 77 He Prepares Burgers Earning in 1 Week His Former Hourly Wage

[daylatedollarshort]

Without the job, he makes $21.6 a year, plus if he took 4% of $40K that's another $1.6K for a total of $23.2. With his part time jobs he is making $40K a year in a paid for home in a low COL state.

Instead of part time jobs, if he had a roommate with the same SS and pension income, the total household income would be $46.4K living in a low COL state with paid for housing. That compares favorably to a median U.S. household income of ~$50K, which includes households paying SS taxes and with higher housing costs.

There are people on many of the more frugal forums who would consider themselves able to live quite well on this kind of income, and would be socking away half. Instead of a roommate he has part time jobs, but he still says, "....his jobs keep him active and learning new things, could survive without working. He receives $1,200 from Social Security and a $600 a month pension from his last corporate job. Still, his $1,400 in monthly wages allows him to bolster his savings and provides for some extras. He goes to the theater, pays for plane tickets to visit his children and grandsons and takes occasional vacations."

He is working because he wants to. He isn't destitute or even breaking even every month. He is saving some of the money from his jobs and using the rest to pay for extras.

So to recap in retirement he has jobs he enjoys that give him exercise and keep him active, he is in good health, he is saving money, and he has extra money for travel and the theater. Written differently, this could be a story of how to live frugally but well in retirement.

 

[behappy]

Another example of why I gave up reading Yahoo! Finance articles years ago.

+1...

 

[slowsaver]

I feel more sorry for the 77 year old who expected to work well into old age, but isn't healthy enough to work, or simply can't find anyone willing to hire them.

 

[Ronnieboy]

I think the OP and the follow up posting pretty much dissected the "article" enough for me.
I'm curious if the subject of the article knew how it (him or his financial situation) was going to be portrayed or described in said article. I could picture the author being a golfer or Sam's club member and hearing about or hearing stories directly from the subject, "when I was working for Oral-B......" Not in a boastful way but just good friendly conversation, then over time the author says your story would make a good article, mind if I write about it. At that point what the subject might think of as a nice, "This is how I do it" or a "No regrets" type of piece becomes the drivel that came out?

I didn't read the article, just the points that were quoted, but to me it seems like the subject had no regrets and has a pretty good work ethic that I'd like to see in some of my employees

I personally wouldn't have paid for the college education (you can get loans for that but not for retirement spiel) nor would I have split the sale of the house, that would have been put right back into the retirement fund, but again, to me, just looking at the comments and description of the subject he seems like a no regrets type of guy and he's happy or at least satisfied with his current situation.

 

[papadad111]

retiree failed to save. Now works at 77

Interesting perspectives on this article. At first I was generally in the "no sympathy" camp, for someone making good money in the 1970's till his wife died in 1983...not to save.

But then I take a step back and see my own 70+ YO parents with little saved and thinking that a "social security check + paid off house" will take care of them. It's tight. Really tight. Pains me to see them struggle, but in many ways my own folks lived life much the same as this guy ...prioritizing kids education and such.... My own Dad, 78, works 25-30 hrs/week in a grocery store to make ends meet. Always the optimist, not sure he really wants to be spending his sunset years in a grocery store working side by side with people 40 years younger than him. Keep in mind - this guy is working, earning his keep. yea, life is difficult for him but somehow he has found some solace in work and i bet being around people every day and having a reason to get up every morning (to go to work) has given him many more years of life. he can earn a bit to enjoy travel, but also lives very frugally. My own dad is much the same way.

I guess really I respect a guy who loses his wife with still young children, decides to keep working hard to put them through college and then continue working into old age.

In today's day and age, take someone of the current generation- they will likely claim some mental / emotional distress, collect from welfare and/or disability, and think nothing of it. Or worse - fall in a bottle, or addicted to pain pills to make their troubles go away...a Neglect the kids...or worse.

My concluding thought is that at some point, the music stops.... if there were more guys like this able to earn his own keep in the pre-boomer and boomer generation that is of retirement age.... we'll all foot less of a bill (taxes or otherwise) eventually taking care of them in retirement.

Sadly i think this story will play out countless times in the next 25 years.

 

[2B]

I work with a number of senior people that make safely in the six figures and I am surprised when I hear comments about "financial sturggles." It seems to eventually involve a pair of BMW SUVs they picked up or something equally "essential." It's clear they plan on working forever. Then, there are others that are clearly saving a large chunk of their pay.

I know one guy that's safely over 70. He's financially flush after a solid career. He consults reguarly and works part-time at an Orvis store. He likes having something to do and interacting with people. He lives a comfortable but modest lifestyle. His children and grandchildren will probably not spend their inheritance with the same care it was amassed.

I suspect the guy in the article likes having his part-time jobs. I know several retirees that have minimum wage jobs for a few hours per week and don't seem to be struggling financially. Part-time work in retirement is just one of many possible lifestyle decisions people make. The money may even be irrelevant.

 

[marko]

Friend of mine is very financially comfortable (pension, trust fund, investments) but bartends two days a week for the social/busy aspect.

Another friend was prez of a mid sized private investment firm. At age 70 he was required to step down and found himself having dramatically downsize in order to stay afloat...seems he never thought that the income would slow or that the economy might tank...yeah, I know 'investment manager', but...he was paying $40K a year just for landscapers! Had to sell two of his three homes, drop out of the country club etc etc etc. He still lives better than most, but he was in denial about so many things.

 

[Andre1969]

If he earned as much as $120,000/year at his best year, that works out to about $57/hr. It says he earns $1,400/month now at his part-time jobs- that works out to $350/week.

Unless he had a magic formula for working just 10 hours a week to earn $120,000/year at his peak, the finance editors need to learn some basic math to learn that $57 is nowhere near equal to $350.

Weren't his peak earning years in the late 1970's and early 1980's? $120,000 per year. Adjusting for inflation, $120K in 1980 would be $340K today. $57 per hour would be $161 today. Still nowhere near $350 per hour, but closer.

That's also assuming he did a normal 40 hour per week job. If he worked as an independent consultant, he probably made a lot more per hour, but didn't work a full 40 hours. As an example, I knew someone who was a consultant (what he consulted for, I don't remember...something defense-related I think) back in the late 1990's. I think he charged $250 or $350 per hour. However, he did not get $250 or $350 per hour, 40 hours per week.

I'm sure there are "billable hours", "non-billable hours", etc worked into those equations. Isn't that how lawyers and such work?

 

[JoeWras]

I'm curious if the subject of the article knew how it (him or his financial situation) was going to be portrayed or described in said article.

Well, that's a good point.

My advice to everyone: if a report of any kind (TV, newspaper, blog) asks you for permission to take your picture or tell your story, kindly "Just Say No."

It isn't worth it. No matter what you say, you will be spun into what they want to spin.

Many here won't read Yahoo. Well I don't watch 60 minutes. 60-min is famous for grilling people for 2 hours or so and dissecting it down to 3 minutes of comments they can spin.

So, OK, maybe we're missing the whole story. Maybe when the guy was making 80k when average wage was 11k, he was giving it all away to Indian orphans. Who knows?

 

[Bestwifeever]

....My advice to everyone: if a report of any kind (TV, newspaper, blog) asks you for permission to take your picture or tell your story, kindly "Just Say No." It isn't worth it. No matter what you say, you will be spun....

I can imagine this poor guy reading the article and thinking, What the heck, this is completely out of context, they made me look like a moron. Too often as in this case and many AARP stories, the subject is not really typical (in that most 77 year olds are not working for any reason and probably most who had a high-paying career are not in dire straits) and the writer wants to use him to prove a point for an industry (asset management as quoted in the article) rather than do any work to find out what really happened to this guy (maybe a few exwives who took him to the cleaners both from his nest egg and part of any pension, maybe there was some malfeasance in his business dealings) and if his current situation is at all related to a lack of investment advice.

I agree the Yahoo stories are a waste of time to read.

 

[Willers]

IMHO, the underlying cause his current situation can be summed up in one of his quotes: "I never thought I'd live this long..."

Just like in business, this is why I always plan for the extreme case...although I guess living longer than expected is not a bad extreme!

 

[2B]

IMHO, the underlying cause his current situation can be summed up in one of his quotes: "I never thought I'd live this long..."

Just like in business, this is why I always plan for the extreme case...although I guess living longer than expected is not a bad extreme!

77 isn't outside his IRS longevity table. He's getting close to the mean age for death but he's probably got a few more years past this since he's still heathy enough for what he's doing.

 

[Willers]

77 isn't outside his IRS longevity table. He's getting close to the mean age for death but he's probably got a few more years past this since he's still healthy enough for what he's doing.

True, his case is more average than extreme. I guess he just couldn't imagine himself at that age.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

My grandfather worked part time for many years as a crossing guard through some pretty brutal winters after he retired from his office job. I used to drive by and see him standing out in all kinds of weather, including rain and snowstorms. He enjoyed having a meaningful job and the extra money. The school children would draw him pictures he'd put on his fridge.

It never occurred to me to feel sorry for him for working in retirement. He didn't have to work. He a lived to an unusually old age and still left a sizable inheritance. He worked in retirement and stayed living in the same small house for most of his life because he had depression era money habits that never left him.

I don't see the man in the article as model for retirement failure. Sure maybe he could have saved more money when he was younger, but they didn't give him enough credit for his work ethic and LBYM lifestyle now.

 

[JoeWras]

After re-reading the article and some of the comments here, I'm coming around to give Tom, the featured worker, a break.

My sense is the writer was trying to make a point and probably picked the wrong example of an older worker who has to work to even scrape by. I don't think Tom fits that category.

The article is interspersed with quotes from "experts", and I got confused by who was saying what.

Tom sounds like an affable guy who likes and needs people. He's working to keep that connection, more than anything. Sounds like he enjoys it more than really needs it. And the writer didn't say what Tom did during the 2009 panic. Did he sell low? Or is the writer just trying to make a point? Arghh!

"Financial Porn" indeed...

 

[brett]

It is not what you make that is important, it is what you keep.

I worked in an environment of six figure income earners for many years. Some spent a great deal of money on status symbols-cars, etc. and saved little. Others saved, lived below their means, invested. Some lost their jobs in their mid/late fifties and had nothing to fall back on. Others happily left the business with substantial retirement savings.

It is not so much about income as it is about personal behavior. We are all different...that is what makes the world such an interesting place.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

It is not what you make that is important, it is what you keep.

On another forum I read, a couple who had per person retirement income about the same as Tom posted their budget asking for help because they were having trouble making ends meet.

The difference was all in their fixed expenses. Tom has extra money for travel and savings. They can't pay their bills. The couple even had a significantly higher net worth but it was all tied up in non-income producing real estate.

Also Tom is working two jobs while they didn't think to even make an extra $10 a day on Fiverr or Mturk between the two of them, which would have brought in an $3.65K extra per year, a significant amount of extra income when you are living on SS and not a lot more.

 

[jollystomper]

After re-reading the article and some of the comments here, I'm coming around to give Tom, the featured worker, a break.

My sense is the writer was trying to make a point and probably picked the wrong example of an older worker who has to work to even scrape by. I don't think Tom fits that category.

The article is interspersed with quotes from "experts", and I got confused by who was saying what.

Tom sounds like an affable guy who likes and needs people. He's working to keep that connection, more than anything. Sounds like he enjoys it more than really needs it. And the writer didn't say what Tom did during the 2009 panic. Did he sell low? Or is the writer just trying to make a point? Arghh!

"Financial Porn" indeed...

I agree with this.

The subject of the article doesn't seem to be blaming others for his choices and is dealing with his current state as best as he can. While I might not agree with the choices he did make, he seems accepting of the results.

There are a lot of other situations the "experts" could have picked to highlight folks in real trouble.

However, we all know that "sex, violence, fear, and death sells papers and gets website hits". The problem with the "experts" in this article is that they leave the impression "abandon hope, you'll never make it" to younger folks and discouraging them from even trying to save/invest towards retirement.

There are no guarantees in life, but there are odds... and I'd rather encourage folks to try to increase the odds in their favor rather than leave the impression that the deck is completely stacked against all of their efforts.

 

[Mulligan]

77 isn't outside his IRS longevity table. He's getting close to the mean age for death but he's probably got a few more years past this since he's still heathy enough for what he's doing.

If I remember correctly, since he has made it to 77, actuarially, he probably has at least 9 more years. In reference to your earlier post that maybe he likes the part time job, that could resemble my dad. He has a million bucks, paid off home, doesn't even spend his monthly pension/SS check. He had to quit working PT a few years ago because his body pretty much has given out on him. Working was his identity. If he had great health, he wouldn't use it to enjoy his money, he would use it to work more.

 

[Birchwood]

Life is like a wheel. Sometimes you're up, at times, you can be down!
I think Tom made some mistakes along the way, some not so apprarent to him. There's nothing he can do about the past, but at least trying his best and I hope that his health holds up to it. As any story, there are some
unknown mysterious twist to it.
a. He made a mistake by not moving with the company. If you were a VP, why not move?
b. He was a business major!, I can't believe he did not think of mutual funds. Maybe, he actually spent much in lifestyle earlier.
c. Why the low SS? Can;t explain that.
d. I admire a 77 who can work that way!. i can't do that at 63.

 

[JoeWras]

d. I admire a 77 who can work that way!. i can't do that at 63.

Agree. He's probably posting on www.late-vigorous-retirement.org how all those ER people are going to die quick from sitting around the computer all day.

 

[Animorph]

Life is like a wheel. Sometimes you're up, at times, you can be down!
I think Tom made some mistakes along the way, some not so apprarent to him. There's nothing he can do about the past, but at least trying his best and I hope that his health holds up to it. As any story, there are some
unknown mysterious twist to it.
a. He made a mistake by not moving with the company. If you were a VP, why not move?
b. He was a business major!, I can't believe he did not think of mutual funds. Maybe, he actually spent much in lifestyle earlier.
c. Why the low SS? Can;t explain that.
d. I admire a 77 who can work that way!. i can't do that at 63.

And:

"He then sold his New Jersey home for $180,000, kept what he needed to quickly pay off his credit card debt and divided the rest among his children so they'd have down payments for their own homes."

Might be nice to hang on to that until you know you won't need it. Probably lost more there than in his portfolio, even if he sold all his equities at the bottom.

I didn't read the article, but from the quotes here he sounds happy as he is.

 

[Mulligan]

And:

"He then sold his New Jersey home for $180,000, kept what he needed to quickly pay off his credit card debt and divided the rest among his children so they'd have down payments for their own homes."

Might be nice to hang on to that until you know you won't need it. Probably lost more there than in his portfolio, even if he sold all his equities at the bottom.

I didn't read the article, but from the quotes here he sounds happy as he is.

I certainly plan to do that. I hope to leave my child money when I am gone. But the longer she has to wait, the more she will appreciate it, and maybe not blow it.

 

[45th Birthday]

I don't think this guy is all that unhappy. The biased author tries to make it seem so, but when he can no longer work, he won't regret/miss the financial aspect of it, but the social/physical/stimulation components of his life.

This article makes me think two things:

"Journalism," while never pure, has slid so, so far.

What were companies thinking back then flying someone at his level to Europe in first class? Coach then was almost as good as first today and either this was an infrequent occurrence or his company went through some rational re-structuring of their cost structure after he left. Wouldn't happen today.

 

[BLS53]

It could be he was bogged down with heavy duty alimony and child support in his earlier years. Given his high earnings, and perhaps the lack of financial resources of his ex(s), it's possible the college funding for the kids was court ordered. I've seen it happen before.

It seems the article is suggesting this is going to be the norm in the future, for 70+ year old's, who don't have substantial portfolios. This gentleman is anecdotal. He works to provide for certain amenities, and seems to enjoy it to some degree.

There's no reason he can't live on the $1800 a month adequately. He has a paid off home. The only thing coming out of the SS and pension is FITW and Medicare part B. A w*rking stiff paying the full range of taxes, and mortgage or rent, would have to earn around $3500 a month to equal this man's discretionary income. The only caveat being is if the guy has exorbitant property taxes or home maintenance.

That turning the water heater on and off is LYBM in the extreme.