Awkward Wealth

[robnplunder]

I remember one time, commenting about having to put $1000 in repairs into the '85 LeSabre that Grandmom gave me when she had to give up driving, and he commented, dismissively, that I should get a new car and "Life's too short to drive crap!"

This is the type of things that a wealthy person can blurt out that can turn people off. I think this is what the OP's post & Cheesehead's (and others) response were about.

 

[robnplunder]

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. It seems to me that that Chessehead has a persistent feeling of ill will or resentment towards some people based on how they acquired their wealth, and not how they treat him and others.

I didn't read it that way either. Perhaps, he feels the way you described above but I'd rather give him (or anyone for that matter) the benefit of doubt and go strictly by what was written.

 

[Milton]

I am saddened that you have met so many people who have let it change them in ways which resulted in them treating others so poorly.

Not sure where that came from. I didn't read of any ill treatment or lack of consideration in his posts. Indeed, he stated that those lucky/unlucky enough - in either case, a matter of chance - to inherit wealth were "not .. bad people" or in some cases "the nicest people". The only complaints expressed were that they "no longer have the kinds of concerns mere mortals do" and that some (have the audacity to) drive new Land Rovers, employ household staff, or own multiple homes: not offensive actions per se, surely?

I don't know all of the facts, and can only go on what's been posted above. Cheesehead speaks of feeling "a basic lack of respect, no matter how well I like them on their other traits": i.e., no matter how the "trust fund babies" actually conduct themselves. Such disrespect may say much about him, but certainly tells us nothing about the recipients of his contempt.

I have detected no "grudges". This seems to be the sine qua non of his postings: "Not that they’re bad people or I’m envious but that our concerns/perspectives in life are so very different".

This is the gist:

I am envious because they didn’t earn it, all trust fund babies, and I can’t relate to them.

In any case, there is everything to be gained by associating with others who have different backgrounds/perspectives/concerns from oneself. Living in an 'echo chamber' would be a very narrow and limiting experience.

 

[Meadbh]

Resentment of wealthy people is often due to jealousy.

When I meet people who are much more wealthy than I am, I try to focus on their positive qualities and how much they are contributing to the economy.

 

[athena53]

How you handle possible inheritance is a matter of your overall values. I have a nephew whose parents have net worth in the 10s of millions- at least. He went through The Buckley School, an equally prestigious prep school I can't remember, Middlebury U., worked in publishing a few years, finished an MBA at Georgetown and is now working in investments. He's worked his rear end off. During his first job he shared an apartment with friends in Brooklyn even though Mom & Dad had a floor-through on the Upper East Side. My SIL and BIL (ex-husband's sister and her husband, self-made entrepreneurs) sure did something right.

When I told DS about the trust we'd set up and how it would pass to him if he outlived us, his first reaction was, "Mom, I don't want your money". He owns a nice little house in Des Moines, has a stay-at-home wife and a baby girl (they're hoping for a couple more kids), so it would certainly be a good stake in their future retirement. I did remind him it might help with college costs. He agreed with that; I hope I'm around and able to help in person when the time comes. I wouldn't be surprised if he were in DSIL and DBIL's will- they tend to be generous helping people who help themselves- but it's not my business and I'd never mention it.

So, not everyone who is in a position to get an inheritance is living differently in anticipation of it.

 

[robnplunder]

Then there are those who are envious of and still attracted to people who are wealthy. We know them as rich wannabees, gold diggers, opportunity seekers, con artists, .... To them, there is no awkward wealth. We haven't discussed in this thread but probably deserves a thread of its own.

 

[LARS]

There is no such thing as awkward wealth; only awkward people.

Ha

Damn straight. I earned honestly every penny that allowed me to retire at 38. I don't owe anyone, but the IRS, an explanation.

 

[jon-nyc]

Early in my building career, a favorite superintendent used to say about a co-worker: "Johnny's so tight, he rubs the buffalo off all his nickels"

My dad used to say "he squeezes his nickels until the indian is riding the buffalo"

I'm pretty sure it was a common saying when indian head nickels were in circulation.

 

[Lsbcal]

And I may add ... the group I was in had a lot of rich Jewish people, children of old money. Hiring managers reached out to their circle of friends and hired other richly inherited folks. I felt I was out of place and had to leave the group eventually.

Are rich Jewish people worse then rich XXXX people?

 

[robnplunder]

Are rich Jewish people worse then rich XXXX people?

I have no clue. Do you know any different? I worked for rich Mormons before and they hired their relatives in key positions. I guess they have that in common, hiring whom they felt comfortable with. In current mega corp, I know a women VP who hires mostly women, Indian VP who hires mostly Indians, etc.. Human nature at works I guess.

 

[Lsbcal]

Just making sure we are not singling out particular group traits (sex, religion, political affiliation, etc.). Seems you are not. Thanks.

 

[youbet]

I have a sister in law who is trust fund baby . She is hard working ambitious and an all around nice person who is also frugal .If you met her you would never guess how wealthy she is .Her children are also hard workers and down to earth people .

Similar experience here. One of my best friends inherited his dad's share of a partnership and was promptly bought out for several million by the other partners. He and his DW do some things now they couldn't afford before (mainly travel and entertainment), but otherwise they're still the same loyal friends as ever.

DW and I have a negative inheritance. My folks neither left us anything nor cost us anything of consequence. DW's dad has passed but her mom is alive in a nursing home and we gladly cough up money so her life is as pleasant as possible. Net, the older generation has cost us money, not left us money.

But our friendship with our monetarily fortunate friends remains strong. Their overnight leap to wealth changed little to make them less attractive to us.

 

[Milton]

The thing that rubs me the wrong way about distain for "trust fund babies" who "haven't EARNED" their financial independence is that it stereotypes and dehumanizes. Doubtless some wealthy people are idle, superficial and so on, but surely that doesn't apply to all. How is this different from the other side of the coin, i.e. suggesting that poor people are invariably ignorant, lazy, unsophisticated, and generally not worth spending time with?

Luck plays a very large role in all of our individual destinies: even the hardest working 'self-made man' is exceptionally fortunate to be born with natural intelligence, in this era of relative peace and prosperity. Smugness is to be discouraged.

Anyway, enough of the thread highjack. Ha is absolutely correct that "there is no such thing as awkward wealth; only awkward people". I invite you to watch the old Harry Enfield "Considerably Richer Than You" clips on YouTube, and you will see one such person receive well-deserved comeuppances!

 

[AnIntentionalRoad]

So in sum, when I meet up with folks who don’t seem to be doing as well as I, and all we have in common is our dogs sharing a ball, I play it down, sometimes don’t mention my exotic profession or even the subdivision we’re in b/c I know it will trigger envy. And when the DW wants to get together socially with people who I know are trust fund babies or lucked into a big inheritance I decline. Not that they’re bad people or I’m envious but that our concerns/perspectives in life are so very different. Your relationship to money, your nest egg is a different mindset, no sweat equity is represented just custodial. You can call it envy but I have a basic lack of respect, no matter how well I like them on their other traits.

I think you are selling a whole class of people short because of personal insecurities. Sorry, that's what it sounds like based on your post.

I know lots of trust fund babies. I would say they breakout as appealing/unappealing as any other class of people. There are many who are shallow and uninteresting. But I also know a good many shallow tradesmen--just shallow in different ways.

I would try not to get too caught up in how people got their wealth and focus on who the people are. I beat you'll be pleasantly surprised. At the end of the day we are all people who want love, friendship, respect, affinity, etc.

 

[AnIntentionalRoad]

And that right there is the crux of the OP, as I see it. You are judging people by their money and avoiding people with more of it. This is exactly why FI people try to avoid conversations about money, and if you slip and say something that connotes wealth, it becomes awkward around people with less who have a bias about people with money.

+1 great observation!

 

[jollystomper]

DW and I went to an Ivy League university and met a lot of what folks here are calling "trust fund babies". Some were certainly obnoxious but most were hard working during college. We have remained friends with some of them and they are hard working and not taking their "trust fund" from granted; indeed several have confided that they will actually see little if any of their parents wealth because the parents think it is a bad idea to leave so much to them.

As a minority I don't like folks painting broad brushes about be based on being a minority, and I try not do do the same with other "groups".

 

[simple girl]

Not sure where that came from. I didn't read of any ill treatment or lack of consideration in his posts. Indeed, he stated that those lucky/unlucky enough - in either case, a matter of chance - to inherit wealth were "not .. bad people" or in some cases "the nicest people". The only complaints expressed were that they "no longer have the kinds of concerns mere mortals do" and that some (have the audacity to) drive new Land Rovers, employ household staff, or own multiple homes: not offensive actions per se, surely?

I don't know all of the facts, and can only go on what's been posted above. Cheesehead speaks of feeling "a basic lack of respect, no matter how well I like them on their other traits": i.e., no matter how the "trust fund babies" actually conduct themselves. Such disrespect may say much about him, but certainly tells us nothing about the recipients of his contempt.

That's true. I drew a conclusion about the reason for his contempt that was not based upon any facts presented in his posts. That conclusion may or may not be correct, but I should not have made that assumption.

 

[EastWest Gal]

My experiences with people who have earned their FI have been almost all positive. The only exception are a couple of close friends who have been filthy rich for a decade or more. They have lost contact with reality as experienced the other 99% including friends that are FI but at a more modest level.

A good example is a friend of mine who insists on having dinners at outrageously expensive restuarants. On top of that he brings a bottle or 3 of wine costing $1000 or more. We have let them know that we cannot afford that lifestyle and they react by insisting to pick up the bill. We also get together at eachothers homes and cook together often so have had several discussions about how DW and myself feel. They have made it clear that money is no object to them and that they are more than happy to pick up the bill at future dinners. It is very awkward. They consider us their best friends. Are me and DW being oversensitive or pridefull? Are they being insensitive to our discomfort? I don't know.

And I though my $60 bottle if champagne was extravagant! Sheesh. The difficult thing these few weeks was the looks if shock on people's faces. And everyone asking what I'm going to do with my time. There is such a mix of envy and resentment over early retirement.


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[EastWest Gal]

Sorry, hit the send button too soon.

About inheritances. I had no clue about my dad's finances until 2 years before dad died and I had to invoke POA to take care of his affairs.

I continued to work as if I had no money. I bought a Prius when my car died a painful death. We calculated we would save $7k in gas over the life of the car. Eating out has mostly been Subway. Our extravagances have been travel, not cars, clothes, daily food.

Money changes you if you let it. It has reduced my stress, but otherwise no change in behavior or thinking.


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[Live And Learn]

This thread makes me thankful that I was born into a family of poor immigrants, started saving as soon as I started working at 16, still "feel poor" in many ways (which has kept me in an ongoing state of frugality and LBYM), and don't know any rich people (except perhaps for a few incognitio "millionaires next door").

I will ER at age 52, voluntarily, from money I have earned through hard work and saved. It won't be an extravagant lifestyle, but I'll have everything I need and that's enough for me.

 

[Nemo2]

This thread makes me thankful that I was born into a family of poor immigrants, started saving as soon as I started working at 16, still "feel poor" in many ways (which has kept me in an ongoing state of frugality and LBYM), and don't know any rich people (except perhaps for a few incognitio "millionaires next door").

I will ER at age 52, voluntarily, from money I have earned through hard work and saved. It won't be an extravagant lifestyle, but I'll have everything I need and that's enough for me.

+1

 

[H2ODude]

Hmm. Post or not? I'd like to posit that money does NOT necessarily change you. We always LBYM and could have retired when we did, at 60, with our "own" money and pension, and used a WR of ~4%. As luck would have it, came into inheritances from both sides that together would make a good retirement in and of itself for many. When those appeared, it changed NOTHING in our approach or savings rates. Or spend rates. As it is now, we live like we always did, but the WR is well below 3%. As mentioned in previous posts, we have trouble finding things to spend it on that's meaningful to us. Because we did not change. DS and DD doing great; could tell them to cool it on their retirement savings because they'll get a bundle some day. All it's done for us is make the comfort zone with a very wide margin.

I just don't buy that inherited money "changes" you. Even if what we inherited was a multiple of what it was I think we'd still behave as we do. I don't really know any "trust fund" babies but admit that if you grew up around copious piles of cash with the mindset to "enjoy" it all, it would create personalities I'd likely not want to be around. But I've never really been around anyone like that on a personal basis.

I think some folks here are making some false assumptions about people they do not know.

 

[LoneAspen]

I invite you to watch the old Harry Enfield "Considerably Richer Than You" clips on YouTube, and you will see one such person receive well-deserved comeuppances!

ROFL - I'd never heard of those, and just watched it.

 

[LoneAspen]

Just caught up more reading the posts from the past couple days, and I find the discussion about money changing people, and whom they might socialize with, very interesting.

I can't deny that I feel a life-changing amount of money would change me. I do tend to hang around with people with similar socio-economic conditions as my own. I don't hang out with the custodians and janitors at work, nor do I hang out with the mega-multi-millionaire founders of the company.

Due to being blessed, good fortune, luck, or whatever else you want to call it, my stock in the company I work for stands a good chance of giving me a life-changing amount of financial resources, and the ability to (hopefully) FIRE early next year if all continues to go well.

If that happens, there are things in life I want to pursue that will probably be out of reach for the majority of people I hang out with right now. I want to get my pilots license and get my own plane. I want to see about maybe building a new home in the mountains of Colorado near ski country. I want to start doing some more traveling.

If I pursue these things, it's going to put me in different socio-economic circles than I've been in before, and I'll probably start socializing with people in those circles more, and spending less time with my current crop of friends, both because of physical location (if I move) and because I fully expect the new activities I want to start pursuing will have little or no interest to my current friends, or be out of reach. I'm not saying that to be snarky, it's just the way it is based on my understanding of their financial situation, which is very similar to my own right now.

Such changes in the circle of friends has happened in every other phase of my life, as I worked myself up (and down), and my circle of people I hang out with has changed accordingly. I am a believer in the "birds of a feather flock together" concept another poster mentioned. It doesn't mean anybody above or below me on the socio-economic ladder is any better or worse than me, just that I hang out with similar people on the same rung of the ladder as me, and as I change where I'm at on the ladder, my circle of friends has changed, too.

I'm pretty certain that if I ever came into mega-multi-millions myself (highly unlikely), I'd probably be one of those people on the private jet talking about things that "mere mortals" (myself today, LOL) do not, like trading in the jet for a new Citation X+ so I could get to my vacation home in the south of France faster

C'est la vie

 

[dallas27]

While money would most certainly change me, i consider thoughts of the poorest people i know to be most useful to me as i make choices in my life. Not only the good people with morals, bit also destitute people without.


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