Awkward Wealth

[athena53]

Today, when I talk to the young whipper-snappers at work, I come out and tell them I don't have a mortgage because I've been in my home over 25 years. They can actually grasp that... kind of. And it usually leads to an opening to discuss the idea of saving money and not constantly refinancing at full 30 year term, etc.

When I broke the news to a couple of young whippersnappers at work that I was quitting because it wasn't fun anymore, I made it a point to tell them I'd been saving and investing my entire adult life. I figure they needed to know that you may not be able to work for as long as you intend to and that saving can give you more options. Never mentioned dollar amounts, of course.

 

[eta2020]

I don't have any of those moments. I try keep my NW to myself and my lifestyle is standard middle class thing.

I am concerned about US love with lawsuits and this may be one of the reasons why I stay off of any radar

 

[athena53]

I don't have any of those moments. I try keep my NW to myself and my lifestyle is standard middle class thing.

I am concerned about US love with lawsuits and this may be one of the reasons why I stay off of any radar

I was also concerned that if my employers knew I had enough money that I didn't have to work, I'd be easy pickings in case of a downsizing. Some people here have reported employers being nicer to them knowing they can just pack up and leave if they get disgruntled, but I never wanted to count on that.

 

[Andre1969]

Then there was another stimulus check in 2008. I have a record of a $600 deposit that June. Not sure but I do not believe it was an advance on my tax bill like it was in 2001. I don't think it was phased out as income rose because my 2008 income ended up being over $300k after I cashed out cmpany stock for my ER.

Thanks for this post, Scrabbler. I went back through one of my Excel spreadsheets, and yup, I deposited $600 on June 28, and the title for that entry was "Income tax stimulus check".

Guess the old memory ain't what it used to be!

 

[H2ODude]

Just an observation on the subject of one's relative place financial wise to one's peers and the original post. If you are ER'd or doing really well financially (and a classic LBYM) then you can elect to disguise your success if you choose to. OTOH, if you've made poor decisions or are the victim of unfortunate financial circumstances, it's pretty hard to disguise that. So sometimes who gets compared how is a bit unavoidable.

 

[calmloki]

The world is an awfully big place. There are lots of ways to live a life, with attendant advantages and trade-offs. Good for me to remember that no matter how tall or handsome or smart or wealthy I might be you could fill huge stadiums with people who are taller or smarter or richer.

Not more handsome however, 'cause I'm just so damn pretty.

“Common sense is the most widely shared commodity in the world, for every man is convinced that he is well supplied with it.”

 

[Amethyst]

One of the men who goes to our gym is a self-made early retiree and although he's nice, his conversational opener is invariably, "So...did you go anyplace nice this summer?" [or "over the holidays"]. Up until he stopped talking to me because I don't travel or have parties, he would go on and on about how much money he has, how much he sold his business for ($20 Million), the business he currently owns, what important friends he has, why he wasn't at the gym for 3 weeks (because he was visiting friends with fabulous homes in Hawaii and California - to be honest, I hadn't noticed he was missing), the 3 weeks at the beach home with the grandkids, and on and on. OK, fella, I get it - you're rich, you have a huge, close family, and you have lots of spare time.

When I mentioned the deer problem at our place, he asked why we didn't bring hunters in to thin the herd. When I explained that hunting is prohibited in residential areas in our county (a thing I'd expect him to know), he started telling me about friends who own a 35-acre "spread" in the county and have hunters in all the time and get a share of the venison.

Like I said...I just didn't have much to contribute to such a conversation, so he gave up talking to me.

Amethyst

I was on the receiving end recently.

My wife and I were invited to an event organized by her company's CEO. I got to talk to him for a while. He asked me if we had purchased a home in San Francisco yet. I replied that we were still renting. He said we should purchase one in the very exclusive Bay Area community where he lives. He is in his 60s and he makes a few millions every year. We are in our 40s and make considerably less. He knows about my wife's compensation level, but it didn't even occur to him that we could not afford such a home. In his world, everybody can.

Then he started talking about the new vacation house he just bought in an exotic location. He went on and on about it, the views, the beach, the location, etc... We should buy one of those too, he concluded.

He probably did not feel awkward about the conversation, because I don't think he realized how ludicrous it all sounded to me.

 

[Meadbh]

One of the men who goes to our gym is a self-made early retiree and although he's nice, his conversational opener is invariably, "So...did you go anyplace nice this summer?" [or "over the holidays"]. Up until he stopped talking to me because I don't travel or have parties, he would go on and on about how much money he has, how much he sold his business for ($20 Million), the business he currently owns, what important friends he has, why he wasn't at the gym for 3 weeks (because he was visiting friends with fabulous homes in Hawaii and California - to be honest, I hadn't noticed he was missing), the 3 weeks at the beach home with the grandkids, and on and on. OK, fella, I get it - you're rich, you have a huge, close family, and you have lots of spare time.

When I mentioned the deer problem at our place, he asked why we didn't bring hunters in to thin the herd. When I explained that hunting is prohibited in residential areas in our county (a thing I'd expect him to know), he started telling me about friends who own a 35-acre "spread" in the county and have hunters in all the time and get a share of the venison.

Like I said...I just didn't have much to contribute to such a conversation, so he gave up talking to me.

Amethyst

I find it depressing listening to people like this, if they seem to have no clue how the other 99% live. Then again, many people at both extremes of the economic spectrum wouldn't feel at home here, either. It's natural to gravitate to people with whom one has something in common.

 

[haha]

One of the men who goes to our gym is a self-made early retiree and although he's nice, his conversational opener is invariably, "So...did you go anyplace nice this summer?" [or "over the holidays"]. Up until he stopped talking to me because I don't travel or have parties, he would go on and on about how much money he has, how much he sold his business for ($20 Million), the business he currently owns, what important friends he has, why he wasn't at the gym for 3 weeks (because he was visiting friends with fabulous homes in Hawaii and California - to be honest, I hadn't noticed he was missing), the 3 weeks at the beach home with the grandkids, and on and on. OK, fella, I get it - you're rich, you have a huge, close family, and you have lots of spare time.

To me, sounds like he is chatting you up. You wear a lot of Spandex?

Ha

 

[Live And Learn]

But to your question about the neighbor, I think you could ask him in a friendly way to come over and take a look, just to give his professional opinion.

That would be a confidence booster to a guy who probably needs it, and then you could go from there if you wanted to ask him if he wanted the job, and give him a graceful exit by asking for a referral to another contractor if it is outside his expertise.

The opinion could be requested with an offer of a few beers or a simple dinner. That would avoid any perception of pity he might be wary of receiving.

This sounds perfect ! FUEGO, when you first mentioned you might "throw him some handyman work" I didn't realize that it was actually his line of work and that you had a real issue that needed addressing (the roof). Sarah's suggested approach above is perfect.

 

[Live And Learn]

Today, when I talk to the young whipper-snappers at work, I come out and tell them I don't have a mortgage because I've been in my home over 25 years. They can actually grasp that... kind of. And it usually leads to an opening to discuss the idea of saving money and not constantly refinancing at full 30 year term, etc.

When I tell people I don't have a mortgage or that I am getting ready to retire I tell them that it is because I have avoided "spending creep" and that I never spent as much as I could have. That I always saved 1/2 of every raise I got, and that anytime I got "found money" (tax refunds, gifts, bonuses, etc) that it went straight into savings. I've also only bought no more than 1/2 the house I could have qualified for when I did have a mortgage. I know at least 3 of them started contributing to the company 401k as a result. A couple of them also have rolled their eyes and said "that's why you have a 5 year old flip phone and haven't caught up to the world yet". You can lead a horse to water ....

 

[Amethyst]

Actually Mr. A. said the same thing, and thought it was funny.

Since you are curious, I wear a skort (resembles a skirt, but has a modesty short underneath) and a running bra, which is not a very sexy item. Not those hideous black elasticated pants all the other women wear that show their rear ends' every detail.

A.

To me, sounds like he is chatting you up. You wear a lot of Spandex?

Ha

 

[Amethyst]

(Oh, and is that really how older men chat up older women? By going on and on about their grandkids? I got married before I was 30, so I never knew! )

A.

 

[steelyman]

Not those hideous black elasticated pants all the other women wear that show their rear ends' every detail.

A.

You've been spying on me!

 

[MooreBonds]

I have been enjoying this website for months now and it is really motivating me to try and super save for retirement.

No offense people but this thread sounds kind of arrogant and snobby?

Maybe I am missing something?

Um, not sure why you think it is arrogant and snobby. You have a very small, very select sliver of the population with regards to net worth posting here. Some of them don't want to embarrass or upset the people around them by the mere fact that they saved, scrimped and invested their way to being independently wealthy. Where do you find arrogance? Arrogance would be rubbing everyone's nose in your balance sheet, IMO.

I can kind of understand what purplesky is referencing in this thread.

In general, I also don't give a whim what other people think of me. However, there is a time and a place for being aware of questions you ask others.

If you asked a friend who was pretty likely in the middle class "Do you know where the Ferrari dealership is? I've got to test drive their new model to see if it's any better than the Lamborghini I've had my eye on", it might be an honest question - but if just anyone asked that question, odds are, it's a veiled attempt at bragging, since it's a well known fact to nearly everyone that Ferraris and Lamborghinis are extremely expensive cars. Or how someone who spends a lot of money could go on about their Coach/LV purse, etc., just so they can brag about their possessions to others.

Same with caviar - which is pretty universally known to be insanely expensive that only the well-heeled can afford to enjoy. It could be an honest question that didn't have any preconceived thought to it by Fuego, just as it could have been an out-of-touch question by an extremely well-to-do person that doesn't realize they're asking someone who likely can't afford it, where they can find it.

 

[FUEGO]

This sounds perfect ! FUEGO, when you first mentioned you might "throw him some handyman work" I didn't realize that it was actually his line of work and that you had a real issue that needed addressing (the roof). Sarah's suggested approach above is perfect.

I may not have mentioned that. But yes, he's an out of work handyman / maintenance guy. I see a work van with ladders on top in his driveway, so he might be back working. Although I still see him walking the kids to/from school occasionally, so maybe he's working for himself or not full time.

 

[Meadbh]

Same with caviar - which is pretty universally known to be insanely expensive that only the well-heeled can afford to enjoy. It could be an honest question that didn't have any preconceived thought to it by Fuego, just as it could have been an out-of-touch question by an extremely well-to-do person that doesn't realize they're asking someone who likely can't afford it, where they can find it.

Yabbut......if a customer in a store asks a clerk where to find a product, surely it is the clerk's job to know where the product is to be found, without making judgments. Very few store clerks will be caviar eaters. The customer service relationship is different from the friend/acquaintance relationship. When the two relationships meet, embarrassment can result.

 

[CaliforniaMan]

I can kind of understand what purplesky is referencing in this thread.

In general, I also don't give a whim what other people think of me. However, there is a time and a place for being aware of questions you ask others.

If you asked a friend who was pretty likely in the middle class "Do you know where the Ferrari dealership is? I've got to test drive their new model to see if it's any better than the Lamborghini I've had my eye on", it might be an honest question - but if just anyone asked that question, odds are, it's a veiled attempt at bragging, since it's a well known fact to nearly everyone that Ferraris and Lamborghinis are extremely expensive cars. Or how someone who spends a lot of money could go on about their Coach/LV purse, etc., just so they can brag about their possessions to others.

Same with caviar - which is pretty universally known to be insanely expensive that only the well-heeled can afford to enjoy. It could be an honest question that didn't have any preconceived thought to it by Fuego, just as it could have been an out-of-touch question by an extremely well-to-do person that doesn't realize they're asking someone who likely can't afford it, where they can find it.

+1 Very well said! There is a time and place to say whatever you want. But saying something which will make someone who is having a harder time than you feel uncomfortable is never acceptable. Trends come and go but class never goes out of style.

 

[haha]

(Oh, and is that really how older men chat up older women? By going on and on about their grandkids? I got married before I was 30, so I never knew! )

A.

A potency advertisement. Having a two generation downline is an achievement, albeit a modest one.

Ha

 

[FUEGO]

Same with caviar - which is pretty universally known to be insanely expensive that only the well-heeled can afford to enjoy. It could be an honest question that didn't have any preconceived thought to it by Fuego, just as it could have been an out-of-touch question by an extremely well-to-do person that doesn't realize they're asking someone who likely can't afford it, where they can find it.

Is it really that expensive? I figured it might be $5-10 for a small tin or pouch (how is it even packaged?) at TJ's. Sure the good stuff that someone linked earlier is thousands. But fish eggs is fish eggs, and pregnant fish aren't too hard to find at spawning time.

I was at A's store and needed help, so asked her without really thinking about the implications (until the words rolled off my tongue).

 

[haha]

One thing I can say for sure is that many people on this board are not aware of how much envy and jealousy exists out there. Small town, big town, big city- envy is probably more frequent than not. Pols are not idiots, and they flog it all day long if it runs in their constituents.

Ha

 

[FUEGO]

That makes total sense. I also live in a very mixed economic area and I myself make pretty good income that allows me to super save for retirement.

Its funny for me because I get excited for people who win with money and they just motivate me(Why I love this website!).
So I love to hear from family and friends and coworkers about their success and failure with money so I can learn from them.

In my neighborhood most people keep to themselves.

I like this site too. You can be a (relatively) low spending millionaire and no one really cares. I don't know where else other than here or MMM forums or my own or others' blogs I would discuss financial topics unique to early retirees. It's like we're living in another dimension.

I actually like hearing about people doing awesome things in their ER. Like the travel posts/threads. Some folks here spend months on the road traveling each year. To me, that's not bragging, it's something to be proud of. A lifetime of effort and work that culminated in the ability to do whatever you want for the rest of your life.

 

[SumDay]

Anyone else have those awkward wealth moments?

All the time - not sure why. I remind myself often that we didn't steal it, we saved it by working for years and socking it away.

We had some friends over Friday night for dinner, and were discussing best places to eat breakfast out. We mentioned a nearby brunch in an upscale area, and when they asked how much it was, I replied with $20 per person, but worth every single penny. The look on their faces made me feel like a schmuck. I might as well have said $200 each. I then started backtracking by explaining that we only do it once a year or so, for very special occasions (not exactly true...). They are teachers with several kids, and are admittedly not great money managers. Why I feel bad for them is beyond me, but I do and really watch my words when discussing travels, home improvements, etc. One of my many foibles, I guess. I'm blessed, and feel for others not as lucky as we've been.

 

[Derslickmeister]

I don't have any of those moments. I try keep my NW to myself and my lifestyle is standard middle class thing.

I am concerned about US love with lawsuits and this may be one of the reasons why I stay off of any radar

+1 and I'm sure as heck never going to be caught buying caviar, unless it's the fish bait kind

 

[steelyman]

I pick up on certain words or phrases that people use that, to me, flag them as a "snob".