Chip and PIN credit cards for Europe

[Chuckanut]

If they had to compensate customers for the inconvenience of dealing with stolen CC information, I predict they would go to chip-n-pin in a New York minute.

 

[savory]

Thanks Braumeister for the info. I am happy to see that and will I have the chip in my BoA card, I am hopeful they will just need to assign a pin.

Now the next step is a dynamic pin mainly for protection with online purchases. It works with an algorithm. The computer recognizes the algorithm with the ever changing pin. This technology is being used today as well but not in the USA.

 

[meierlde]

+1

About 1000 Walmart stores have chip and pin machines up and running, and if they detect that it is a chip card, they actually require you to push the card into the slot for chip and pin cards.

But they don't require the PINs for low dollar amounts. Someone recently said they paid $130 at Walmart, and they still didn't require a PIN to be entered. So it's kind of hard to test the PIN in the US if they don't require the PIN!

Note that for small dollar amounts Walmart does not require signatures for old fashioned credit cards either, like some bookstores and the like the limit for the swipe cards is like $25 where a reciept is issued without needing a signature.

 

[audreyh1]

Thanks Braumeister for the info. I am happy to see that and will I have the chip in my BoA card, I am hopeful they will just need to assign a pin.

Now the next step is a dynamic pin mainly for protection with online purchases. It works with an algorithm. The computer recognizes the algorithm with the ever changing pin. This technology is being used today as well but not in the USA.

That PIN doesn't work for credit card transaction, only for cash advances via an ATM and you don't want to use your card for that - high fees! BofA does not issue a chip and pin card yet, just chip and signature.

 

[audreyh1]

Note that for small dollar amounts Walmart does not require signatures for old fashioned credit cards either, like some bookstores and the like the limit for the swipe cards is like $25 where a reciept is issued without needing a signature.

Yeah, but $130?!?!

 

[audreyh1]

There are also the occasional rude counter in the Amsterdam railway stations where they pretty much tell you "no PIN, no play" even though I suspect the chip and signature would work just fine, but they don't want to deal with you. At least the main counter for international tickets specified you had to have a "chip" card, but handled chip and signature just fine.

BTW - this example, the train station counter would accept NO CASH, only chip and PIN card. We tried to buy a couple of sandwiches in a train station deli, and they clearly marked the registers and "Card with Chip and PIN only" and claimed they wouldn't take my card.

Later I decided they just didn't want to deal with me, because the international train reservations counter took my chip and signature card just fine - even though they had signs clearly stating they would accept chip cards only. Another counter - for bus tickets - also claimed "no chip and pin no play", but at least they accepted my cash! In fact the growly guy behind the counter actually cracked a smile when I whipped out a €50 note and said - this should work instead of a PIN!

What's funny - is all these counters had the same credit cards with chip only signs, but they each handled the signature issue differently.

It's not uncommon for grocery stores and restaurants in Amsterdam to run "cashless". Most locations we encountered were manned and handled our chip and signature card just fine. The deli at the train station was an exception - but a kind of exception that can prove to be very inconvenient if you're really hungry and want to take a sandwich on the train!!!!!

 

[AllDone]

We're in Spain right now and have had no trouble. They stuff the swipe card into the reader and it works just fine. Last year in Amsterdam, I used one of their computers to buy train tickets on-line with my defective credit card.

 

[audreyh1]

We got our PenFed chip and pin credit cards this week. Now if I cold only test them! Walmart reads the chip but doesn't take the pin yet as far as I know - still using signature but only for larger amounts.

We'll see how Alan gets on.

Hopefully PenFed handles the travel advisory OK.

 

[Alan]

We got our PenFed chip and pin credit cards this week. Now if I cold only test them! Walmart reads the chip but doesn't take the pin yet as far as I know - still using signature but only for larger amounts.

We'll see how Alan gets on.

Hopefully PenFed handles the travel advisory OK.

I'll be sure to report back, leaving on the 10th.

I was pretty disappointed with the travel advisory last year in that I was able to use the card no problem while in Europe, but back in the USA a cloned version of the card was used in walk-in stores in New York and Atlanta in June even though the travel advisory I'd set up said I would not be in the country from March 30th to September 15th, and for each month traveling I listed which countries I would be in.

 

[audreyh1]

I'll be sure to report back, leaving on the 10th.

I was pretty disappointed with the travel advisory last year in that I was able to use the card no problem while in Europe, but back in the USA a cloned version of the card was used in walk-in stores in New York and Atlanta in June even though the travel advisory I'd set up said I would not be in the country from March 30th to September 15th, and for each month traveling I listed which countries I would be in.

Yes, I remember you reporting a problem. I just didn't remember whether your card got blocked while you were overseas. I guess not!

 

[mpeirce]

I'll be trying out my new chip and signature VISA from BofA in europe in about a week. Luckily, no train travel on the itinerary, so that won't be a problem.

I used this card a few times and it worked pretty well. It worked fine being inserted into the charge machines and, yes, I did have to sign a receipt, but no one complained.

I did not try it in a non-attended kiosk.

The best thing was that there was no foreign traction charge - the main reason I got the card.

(I was just reviewing the charges (to make sure there was no FTC) and they list both the EUR and USD amounts for my charges in the Netherlands, but just the USD amounts for charges in Austria (Euro) and Hungary (Forint). Kinda odd...)

 

[audreyh1]

Is this on your statement or on your recent transactions online? I think they showed only USD online, but both currencies on my statement. Charges from NL and Belgium.

Have the same card.

 

[mpeirce]

Is this on your statement or on your recent transactions online? I think they showed only USD online, but both currencies on my statement. Charges from NL and Belgium.

I was looking online.

The items with both Euro and USD were from last month, so maybe it gets updated when the bill gets generated? I'll keep an eye on it.

 

[Alan]

I'm in Canada at present, used my Penfed card 3 times and while it works it doesn't prompt for a PIN, just asks for a signature, so I still haven't been able to test the PIN yet.

 

[audreyh1]

I'm in Canada at present, used my Penfed card 3 times and while it works it doesn't prompt for a PIN, just asks for a signature, so I still haven't been able to test the PIN yet.

Well, I guess you will have to wait until your try to use an automated machine in Europe?

I read somewhere (did we discuss it here?) that these cards are configured for "signature priority". That is, if a signature can be obtained, the card will prompt for that, only defaulting to PIN if signature cannot be obtained. Kind of annoying that, but probably yet another Americanismo when it comes to dang credit cards!!!!!

 

[movaly1]

I have a chip card from PenFed. I use it here in Portugal all the time. It automatically asks for a signature.

 

[Hopeful]

Well, I guess you will have to wait until your try to use an automated machine in Europe?

I read somewhere (did we discuss it here?) that these cards are configured for "signature priority". That is, if a signature can be obtained, the card will prompt for that, only defaulting to PIN if signature cannot be obtained. Kind of annoying that, but probably yet another Americanismo when it comes to dang credit cards!!!!!

That is the way our SDFCU chip & pin worked in Paris. At restaurants the waiter would put the card in the machine, but they seemed surprised when a signature receipt started printing since they saw the chip on the card. When we used it at an automated machine to buy metro tickets, it asked for the pin and worked without a problem. Wish it was pin priority, but it still worked.

 

[rayvt]

I read somewhere (did we discuss it here?) that these cards are configured for "signature priority". That is, if a signature can be obtained, the card will prompt for that, only defaulting to PIN if signature cannot be obtained. Kind of annoying that, but probably yet another Americanismo when it comes to dang credit cards!!!!!

Yes, that's the way it works with my Penfed card. Rather annoying, since every place we used it on our first trip had a person there and we always had to sign. So I was a little bit worried.

But on this last trip we bought train tickets in Cadiz from a machine. It asked for the "número secreto"-- which I assumed was the PIN and then it said "número secreto correcta" and printed our tickets.

 

[rayvt]

We always thought, No problem, it's got a chip so it should work--we'll just have to deal with the surprized looks from the cashiers and sign the dang slip.

...until the day we went walking on our own and got lost and spotted a gas station ahead so we could just go in and ask the attendant. Until we got there and discovered that all the pumps were automated and there was no attendant. Just the pumps.

That's what is in our future here, when/if the Dems raise the minimum wage to $10. No human persons, just chip-and-pin machines.

We ate at a Burger King in Madrid, too. There were real people there, but they did not handle money. You gave the girl your order and stuck your money or card into a machine. Anybody that tried to give them money, they waved it away and pointed to the slots in the machine.

 

[anethum]

That is the way our SDFCU chip & pin worked in Paris. At restaurants the waiter would put the card in the machine, but they seemed surprised when a signature receipt started printing since they saw the chip on the card. When we used it at an automated machine to buy metro tickets, it asked for the pin and worked without a problem. Wish it was pin priority, but it still worked.

That's good to know. I learned years ago that my non-chip credit card was not accepted by Metro, RER, & SNCF machines in France. I recently got a PenFed credit card w/chip and hope to use it 2 weeks from now to buy my RER ticket from a machine when I exit CDG airport.

 

[Alan]

Well, I guess you will have to wait until your try to use an automated machine in Europe?

I read somewhere (did we discuss it here?) that these cards are configured for "signature priority". That is, if a signature can be obtained, the card will prompt for that, only defaulting to PIN if signature cannot be obtained. Kind of annoying that, but probably yet another Americanismo when it comes to dang credit cards!!!!!

That is what it looks like. Used it again today and no PIN required.

 

[meierlde]

Let me suggest what might happen as well. Since in many cases there is a minimum purchase needed to require a signature (say $25) it might be a pin is required above it and none below, just like today at Wal-Mart small purchases don't require you to sign on the machine. (But other stores do so its somewhat up to the store and the cost benefit ratio of getting a signature, the same might be true of the extra time to enter a pin).

 

[Alan]

Let me suggest what might happen as well. Since in many cases there is a minimum purchase needed to require a signature (say $25) it might be a pin is required above it and none below, just like today at Wal-Mart small purchases don't require you to sign on the machine. (But other stores do so its somewhat up to the store and the cost benefit ratio of getting a signature, the same might be true of the extra time to enter a pin).

Last week I used my new card in the Chip and Pin slot at the Walmart check out and the bill was $122. I swiped it first, but it detected it had a PIN and I had to put it into the slot at the base of the unit, but no PIN required, just signature.

Largest bill so far in Canada has been $81, and no PIN requested.

ETA

Today our Canadian host paid an $18 charge with his card and PIN was needed. He says he always needs a PIN when buying something.

 

[Wingnut]

If you are fortunate enough to be able to use USAA, they also have a free chip and PIN on their matercard. It does have a 1% for trans fee, so we are migrating over to PenFed signature visa moving forward as they have a 0% for trans fee.

 

[audreyh1]

I plan to use the PenFed card for gas rewards and automated ticket machines in Europe.

Otherwise overseas I'll use the BofA Travel Rewards chip and sig card since it earns 1.5% rewards as well as no transaction fee.

We ran across quite a few cashless food businesses in Amsterdam, especially in the train station. I can see why they'd just as soon have no employees handling cash.