Chip and PIN credit cards for Europe

[kcowan]

Or they'll say their credit card terminal is broken.

I always ask to talk to the manager and in over 50% of the cases, it starts working again! I believe it is a tipping thing.

 

[kcowan]

Last month in Costa Rica we got 15 percent discount at small resort simply by asking for a cash price. Highest cash discount so far. In Italy it was not uncommon to get 5 or 10 percent discount for cash simply by asking.

We ask for a cash discount and if it is not offered, we use our Chase no-FX CC with 1% cashback.

 

[audreyh1]

If you don't mind, what made you decide the rewards were good enough to pay the $75 annual fee compared to the non-Elite version?

OK - after having gone through the process, I would NOT recommend signing up for the Elite version simply because First Tech treats it like an unsecured loan application, and has their loan people calling you and verifying stuff, and lots of confusing extra paperwork. Because this is their "Elite" card it gets a lot stricter credit treatment than the others. After receiving emails saying the credit card was approved, I still got a "adverse action notice" that indicated that I wasn't approved but was given a counter-offer of $25,000 which is a minimum for that card. It turned out the original request was for $75K, but I didn't request that. So someone from the loan department who talked to us requested that on our behalf. When I called this morning I was told the cards had already been mailed to us, that they were at the $25K limit, which is all we needed in the first place. Yet the letter and information didn't explain anything about the credit card approval.

Just save yourself the hassle and sign up for the Choice card instead, which has a $10K to $25K credit limit range.

 

[braumeister]

Just save yourself the hassle and sign up for the Choice card instead, which has a $10K to $25K credit limit range.

Thanks for the update.
Actually, I did sign up for the Choice card, but it was a little strange too. When they asked me what limit I wanted, I said $15K and they gave me $35K, which is far more than I'll ever use.

The strange thing was that I signed up for a checking and savings account to become a member, and made them joint with DW. No, the checking account was fine but in order to have a joint credit card, both parties must be "primary members." So DW had to open her own savings account and be a primary member as well. Once she did that, they said everything was fine and it proceeded normally. No problem with both of us being joint owners on both savings accounts, but we each have to be primary on one of them in order to have a joint credit card. Strange, but OK.

I'm looking forward to using it as a true chip & PIN on our next trip.

 

[explanade]

I got back from Spain two weeks ago.

Never had to use First Tech card. I did have to refuel a rental car but in both cases, I had to go inside and pay. There were no options to pay at the pump.

I used Apple Pay a lot. Most of the restaurants and shops had POS terminals with contactless support. Mostly the contactless support they get is with contactless credit cards issued by European banks. So more than once, people were surprised my iPhone worked.

There were one or two occasions where they had a much older terminal, which didn't support contactless. But contactless is faster than a chip card and you don't have to sign for anything, whereas most US chip cards will prioritize signature when used in chip mode.

Supposedly though the way it works is that cards will have a threshold transaction value above which you can't authenticate with just the TouchID in Apple Pay. However, I had a €254 hotel bill that I used Apple Pay for and I didn't sign.

 

[audreyh1]

I got back from Spain two weeks ago.

Never had to use First Tech card. I did have to refuel a rental car but in both cases, I had to go inside and pay. There were no options to pay at the pump.

I used Apple Pay a lot. Most of the restaurants and shops had POS terminals with contactless support. Mostly the contactless support they get is with contactless credit cards issued by European banks. So more than once, people were surprised my iPhone worked.

There were one or two occasions where they had a much older terminal, which didn't support contactless. But contactless is faster than a chip card and you don't have to sign for anything, whereas most US chip cards will prioritize signature when used in chip mode.

Supposedly though the way it works is that cards will have a threshold transaction value above which you can't authenticate with just the TouchID in Apple Pay. However, I had a €254 hotel bill that I used Apple Pay for and I didn't sign.

Hmmm - I think touch ID of a thumbprint or phone login is much more secure than a signature, so I can't imagine why a signature would be needed in addition, unless the terminal system doesn't distinguish between NFC cards using no authentication (like the Canadian cards) and cards like Apply Pay. I had a fairly expensive purchase at a Best Buy where Apple Pay with Touch ID was just fine.

Well, I'll have to look for Apply Pay in Europe. Since the First Tech card supports Apple Pay I'll just get set up with that too.

 

[audreyh1]

Thanks for the update.
Actually, I did sign up for the Choice card, but it was a little strange too. When they asked me what limit I wanted, I said $15K and they gave me $35K, which is far more than I'll ever use.

The strange thing was that I signed up for a checking and savings account to become a member, and made them joint with DW. No, the checking account was fine but in order to have a joint credit card, both parties must be "primary members." So DW had to open her own savings account and be a primary member as well. Once she did that, they said everything was fine and it proceeded normally. No problem with both of us being joint owners on both savings accounts, but we each have to be primary on one of them in order to have a joint credit card. Strange, but OK.

I'm looking forward to using it as a true chip & PIN on our next trip.

Wow, surprise on the $35K limit, when their online docs indicated $25K was the max.

Yes, we had to fill out paperwork to get DH as a member, but I didn't see anything about him having his own checking account, I thought he would be joint on mine. Hmmm.

 

[braumeister]

Wow, surprise on the $35K limit, when their online docs indicated $25K was the max.

Yes, we had to fill out paperwork to get DH as a member, but I didn't see anything about him having his own checking account, I thought he would be joint on mine. Hmmm.

DW had to get her own savings account to be a primary member. The checking account is joint.

 

[audreyh1]

We had a chance to try out our new First Tech FCU MasterCard with PIN priority at Home Depot today. Sure enough - it asked for a PIN, and approved the transaction.

I also tried it at Target, but the amount was <$10, so no PIN was requested.

We plan to use this card extensively in Europe.

 

[braumeister]

Thanks, that's very good to know.
Our PINs arrived today, so the cards should be here shortly.

 

[audreyh1]

Thanks, that's very good to know.
Our PINs arrived today, so the cards should be here shortly.

Each of us was issued a different card number, so we each have different PINs.

I read that Walmart, Target and Home Depot will ask for PINs. I suppose the transaction has to be high enough.

Looks like CVS as well according to some flyer talk conversations - even for low amounts. And also some Subways?

Oh - check this out. The Home Depot receipt says "verified by PIN" !!

 

[braumeister]

I used mine today (got them in the mail yesterday).
Much to my surprise, the machine at Kroger asked for the PIN on a transaction under $10, even though I've never had to do any verification on other cards for amounts under $50. Glad to see the extra layer of security.

 

[Meadbh]

I used mine today (got them in the mail yesterday).
Much to my surprise, the machine at Kroger asked for the PIN on a transaction under $10, even though I've never had to do any verification on other cards for amounts under $50. Glad to see the extra layer of security.

It's good to see the US finally adopting this technology. Security is good!

 

[audreyh1]

Surprise!

I used my First Tech MasterCard at checkout at Walmart for a purchase just over $6, and it prompted me for my PIN! Which I supplied, and transaction went through.

I remarked my surprise to the cashier, and he said, oh no, we don't ask for PIN unless it's over $50! I told him I had to enter my PIN just then. He looked shocked.

Interesting.

Anyway another place someone can test their US issued PIN priority card.

 

[braumeister]

I had the same experience with a small grocery purchase at Kroger.

Looks like we finally joined the rest of the world.

 

[audreyh1]

PIN priority seems to be working quite a few places. I used it at World Market today - prompted for PIN.

 

[audreyh1]

After almost 2 months in the Netherlands (well, one week was in Germany), I have to say the First Tech PIN-priority MasterCard worked like a champ. It was so convenient not to deal with signing receipts that we only used that card.

It worked in every automated machine we tried except at one train station in which the OV-chipkaart top-up machine did not accept credit cards and we went to the desk which did. We used several machines, and encountered only 1 out of say 10 that did not accept credit cards.

Some Netherlands stores do not accept credit cards at all, but only local Dutch debit cards, and we would use cash there. These are mostly grocery stores, but some other retailers as well.

I had trouble at a major chain LIDL grocery store in Germany that gave me two incorrect PIN messages - which I think was bogus - but I wasn't going to chance a third try and so paid cash. My husband's MasterCard worked fine at several other locations in Germany - so apparently it was just that store.

It's nice that First Tech issues separate numbers for each card holder, so for a couple if some problem occurs with one card (loss, locked out due to wrong PIN), the other can still be used.

We used the heck out of our OV-chipkaarts - trains, metro, and busses/trams all over the Netherlands. We bought these in 2014, and they expire in Jan 2018. You top them up as needed, and train rides and tram/bus/metro rides are debited as you check in and check out. Since they were expiring in Jan we had to stop by the GVB office at Amsterdam Centraal and get the remaining credit refunded.

 

[explanade]

I've been in Austria for two weeks, transiting through Munich.

Only time I've had to us the First Tech PIN card is for the S-bahn kiosks at MUC airport. The kiosks look old so no support for contactless.

Otherwise, I've been using Apple Pay every chance I get. Contactless cards are widely used but more than once, clerks and customers are surprised when I pull out my iPhone and do the transaction that way.

The only thing is, a lot of restaurants and smaller shops in Austria will not take credit cards unless the bill is over 20 or 30 Euros. I have no problems going to supermarkets and charging 4 or 5 Euros -- usually some bottles of water, fruit, snacks.

I'd almost be tempted to pay an extra Euro or two to be able to tap with my iPhone instead of dig up cash.

 

[audreyh1]

I've been in Austria for two weeks, transiting through Munich.

Only time I've had to us the First Tech PIN card is for the S-bahn kiosks at MUC airport. The kiosks look old so no support for contactless.

Otherwise, I've been using Apple Pay every chance I get. Contactless cards are widely used but more than once, clerks and customers are surprised when I pull out my iPhone and do the transaction that way.

The only thing is, a lot of restaurants and smaller shops in Austria will not take credit cards unless the bill is over 20 or 30 Euros. I have no problems going to supermarkets and charging 4 or 5 Euros -- usually some bottles of water, fruit, snacks.

I'd almost be tempted to pay an extra Euro or two to be able to tap with my iPhone instead of dig up cash.

Our experience in Austria of minimums for credit cards use was the same.

I didn't try contactless in the Netherlands even though I often saw my SIL using contactless with a card. I'll try it next time.

Oh wait - we went by the Apple Store in Amsterdam to buy a couple of euro plug chargers and they told us ApplePay was not supported in the Netherlands yet as the bank agreements haven't been finalized. Nevermind.

I suppose you just switch to the wallet app on your phone/watch and hold it to the terminal?

It should be wild mushroom season in Austria now. We were in Austria early to mid September in 2014 and had some awesome fresh mushrooms including fresh steinpilzen a.k.a. boletus/porcini. So wonderful! But they had lots of other varieties too.

 

[explanade]

With Apple Pay, you just put the phone near the NFC reader, which is usually on the keypad where people insert the PIN cards.

Then the virtual card interface will come up and you select the card you want and then authenticate with TouchID.

You don't have to unlock the phone and open any app. IF it detects an NFC signal, it will bring it up.

I don't know about mushrooms. I'm not a big fan of indigenous Austrian cooking, which is often schnitzel or some kind of boiled beef or pork. Had some great risotto which came with some grilled beef filets. It had chanterelles and I often saw menu items with chanterelles.

I don't know if those are indigenous to Austria?

 

[audreyh1]

With Apple Pay, you just put the phone near the NFC reader, which is usually on the keypad where people insert the PIN cards.

Then the virtual card interface will come up and you select the card you want and then authenticate with TouchID.

You don't have to unlock the phone and open any app. IF it detects an NFC signal, it will bring it up.

I don't know about mushrooms. I'm not a big fan of indigenous Austrian cooking, which is often schnitzel or some kind of boiled beef or pork. Had some great risotto which came with some grilled beef filets. It had chanterelles and I often saw menu items with chanterelles.

I don't know if those are indigenous to Austria?

I believe those chanterelles are indeed native to Austria even though they use the French name.

 

[Chuckanut]

The only thing is, a lot of restaurants and smaller shops in Austria will not take credit cards unless the bill is over 20 or 30 Euros.

I learned a few years ago that the smaller mom-and-pop restaurants (the kind I seek out and enjoy) don't like CC's because so much of the profit is eaten up by the fee. Example: Two people eat a nice meal that costs 50 Euro. The profit may be 10 Euro at the most. The CC company charges 3% of the total amount - 1.5 Euro. So, 15% of their profit goes to the bank.

That's why I tend to pay with cash. I want to see those small family restaurants stay in business for my next trip.

 

[explanade]

Credit cards are more convenient and I generally don't like carrying a lot of cash.

Plus the rewards you get but of course the business pays for them.

Austrian prices are more reasonable than I recall Switzerland prices being. Maybe they could bump it up a bit to cover the credit card charges.

 

[audreyh1]

I learned a few years ago that the smaller mom-and-pop restaurants (the kind I seek out and enjoy) don't like CC's because so much of the profit is eaten up by the fee. Example: Two people eat a nice meal that costs 50 Euro. The profit may be 10 Euro at the most. The CC company charges 3% of the total amount - 1.5 Euro. So, 15% of their profit goes to the bank.

That's why I tend to pay with cash. I want to see those small family restaurants stay in business for my next trip.

Me too. We tend to only use CCs at the fancier, more expensive restaurants.

Except that in Amsterdam there are quite a few cashless restaurants, so of course we use CC there.

 

[explanade]

OK, really annoyed with Munich.

First, the only card I could use to buy the S bahn tickets at the airport was my First Tech MasterCard.

It's never failed me, working in Brussels train kiosks when my other cards wouldn't.

But then I tried to buy S bahn tickets back to the airport from the main Munich train station (Hauptbahnhof) and it repeatedly said invalid card.

So I had to withdraw more cash and pay for it that way. It was before 4:30 AM in the morning to especially annoying. Also suspiciously, there was often one ATM machine at each of these clusters of MVV kiosks.

Anyways, a lot of businesses in Munich use terminals with contactless support, so I was able to make purchases with Apple Pay. The Germans (and Austrians) use contactless cards though, not so much mobile payments.

But the MVV hasn't updated their kiosks to put in NFC chips yet. I've seen some other kiosks, like at parking garages, have NFC chips. Other systems in the world also have the latest payment methods supported.