Chip and PIN credit cards for Europe

[Totoro]

Just make sure if it offers you a choice between local and USD currency ("for your convenience") to select the local one.

The conversion is a rip-off.

 

[explanade]

Or you can look at using mobile payments, which is way faster than chip cards.

 

[braumeister]

Or you can look at using mobile payments, which is way faster than chip cards.

Yes, I was surprised at how many places took Apple Pay when I was in Denmark and Sweden recently. Two seconds and you're done.

 

[explanade]

Yup, lot of places in Spain and Austria too, of the recent places I've visited.

In the US, it's so lame. There are places with contactless terminals, even displaying the contactless symbol on the screen to let you swipe, insert or tap.

But many places have disabled the tap for whatever reasons. At first it was because they wanted to push a competing system, CurrentC, from Walmart and Target.

The big chain stores abandoned it but they still won't take Apple Pay.

 

[Alan]

Yup, lot of places in Spain and Austria too, of the recent places I've visited.

In the US, it's so lame. There are places with contactless terminals, even displaying the contactless symbol on the screen to let you swipe, insert or tap.

But many places have disabled the tap for whatever reasons. At first it was because they wanted to push a competing system, CurrentC, from Walmart and Target.

The big chain stores abandoned it but they still won't take Apple Pay.

Even in the small place we live in England Apple and Android Pay is almost everywhere, big stores, little stores, local cafes, parking meters etc. The ones that don’t have pay by phone will have contactless but that is limited to £30 ($50).

We are off to Norway for 2 weeks in June so I am hoping they are also well entrenched there.

 

[explanade]

Part of the problem is the payment infrastructure.

The big US chains have their own systems, though security it not strong on those.

And smaller businesses like restaurants don't want to have to pay $200 or more for those terminals. Not even those little wireless terminals used by restaurants in Europe. For one thing, the custom is that the wait staff take your card and run it in the back, rather than execute the transaction for you at the table.

Because again, some of the POS systems used by restaurants are these large terminals with touchscreen for the menu items.

In Europe, it seems the banks which do the credit card fulfillment distribute those wireless terminals, which support magnetic stripe, chip and contactless. So most restaurants have several of them to do the credit card transactions.

 

[Alan]

A small Italian cafe opened here a few months back and one time when I went to pay at the desk the owner’s mother was helping out. I told her I’d like to pay by phone and her son told her to touch the pay by card icon on the touchscreen. I had my locked phone in my hand and it lit up with the option to pay so I touched my finger to the button for authorization by fingerprint and that was that. She was gob smacked and her son said to her, “you think it’s magic don’t you? Just wait until you see someone pay by watch.”

 

[JustCurious]

In most cases, a U.S. credit card will work in Europe at unattended kiosks even if you do not have a PIN. When it asks for a PIN, simply select "continue" or "enter" or even enter "0000" as your PIN and the transaction will be completed.

The way it was explained to me, the credit card payment systems (MC/Visa) have an agreement that requires all of their credit cards to be accepted at all places that accept MC and Visa, including cards that do not require a PIN, and even when used at unattended machines. Somehow the machine knows that your card is a U.S. based card that does not require a PIN and you are allowed to complete the transaction without entering a PIN.

 

[braumeister]

In most cases, a U.S. credit card will work in Europe at unattended kiosks even if you do not have a PIN.

Most perhaps, but definitely not all. Forget about it if you want to buy a train ticket in many stations. They simply don't accept cards issued outside the EU.
But you're still OK if you can find a counter with actual clerks to handle the transaction.

 

[gerntz]

Somehow the machine knows that your card is a U.S. based card that does not require a PIN and you are allowed to complete the transaction without entering a PIN.

Surely the card # is a dead giveaway.

 

[jonat]

Surely the card # is a dead giveaway.

That would require a database lookup. The issuing country and currency is part of the data the terminal reads from the card.

 

[brett]

We never let our card out of our sight. In Europe and SE Asia (or anywhere else for that matter) does not have a remote terminal I will take my card to to the cash or bar, where ever they have the terminal. It is not a big deal for me.

 

[Chuckanut]

That would require a database lookup. The issuing country and currency is part of the data the terminal reads from the card.

So my American credit union thinks I come from ?? Spain, Mexico or another Spanish speaking country?

 

[meierlde]

So my American credit union thinks I come from ?? Spain, Mexico or another Spanish speaking country?

As this web page suggests, the first 6 digits of the credit card number id the bank of issue: https://www.bindb.com/bin-list.html and the first digit ids the card (all be it the number of digits sometimes differs between cards issuers )
- Amex bin list: Card numbers start with a 37.
- Visa bin list: Card numbers start with a 4.
- MasterCard bin list: Card numbers start with the numbers 51 through 55.
- Diners Club bin list: Card numbers begin with 300 through 305, 36 or 38.
- Discover bin list: Card numbers begin with 6011 or 65.
- JCB bin list: Card numbers begin with 35.
(the lists may be out of date but the idea is clear)
From the 6 digit number computers can get the bank currency of the card etc. (Just a database lookup)

 

[audreyh1]

Here's an update: I got a new Chip-and-Pin card from 1st Tech. I plan to use it in Canada and Europe, and I was wondering how I can check to make sure it's working.

A few days ago I wandered into a local grocery store that is owned by Kroger. I slipped the card into the machine expecting to have to sign a slip as usual. Instead, up popped a message asking me to enter my pin!!!! I did and it worked, showing Pin Verification on the receipt.

One problem: The request for my pin was in Spanish.

Right - there are many stores in the US that will require PIN. Walmart, Target, Cost Plus, HEB. Actually all of them should. That list is what I’ve tried.

The PIN request in Spanish thing? I haven’t ever seen that and I have that card. Kroger bug I bet.

 

[audreyh1]

Yup, lot of places in Spain and Austria too, of the recent places I've visited.

In the US, it's so lame. There are places with contactless terminals, even displaying the contactless symbol on the screen to let you swipe, insert or tap.

But many places have disabled the tap for whatever reasons. At first it was because they wanted to push a competing system, CurrentC, from Walmart and Target.

The big chain stores abandoned it but they still won't take Apple Pay.

Some big chain stores do, like Best Buy, and more are coming. I think I used it at a fancy department store recently.

 

[Sojourner]

So, I've read through many of the recent posts in this thread, and I'm still a little uncertain about whether I should get a true chip-and-PIN card before my upcoming trip to Europe. Some posts seem to indicate this kind of card isn't really necessary, especially considering the growing usage of Apple Pay, etc. But some posts lead me to believe that having a true chip and PIN card would be very helpful in places like train stations and gas stations.

Spain is my primary destination, and I'll be taking a couple of standard "chip and signature" cards along with my Schwab ATM/debit card for cash withdrawals. Will this be good enough to make my trip (almost) entirely hassle-free in terms of paying for things, or should I go through the extra effort of getting a true chip-and-PIN card?

 

[audreyh1]

So, I've read through many of the recent posts in this thread, and I'm still a little uncertain about whether I should get a true chip-and-PIN card before my upcoming trip to Europe. Some posts seem to indicate this kind of card isn't really necessary, especially considering the growing usage of Apple Pay, etc. But some posts lead me to believe that having a true chip and PIN card would be very helpful in places like train stations and gas stations.

Spain is my primary destination, and I'll be taking a couple of standard "chip and signature" cards along with my Schwab ATM/debit card for cash withdrawals. Will this be good enough to make my trip (almost) entirely hassle-free in terms of paying for things, or should I go through the extra effort of getting a true chip-and-PIN card?

Yes, you’ll be fine. Your Schwab debit card will even work in an automated ticket machine if you get in a bind. It’s a true “PIN” card in that respect.

We used our Costco chip and sig credit card for hotels and fancy restaurants due to the new no foreign exchange fee and 3% cash back. And our First Tech VISA true PIN card otherwise for the convenience. It’s very convenient to have a true PIN card to travel with in Europe, but not a stumbling block. Recently returned from 3 weeks in Spain.

Carry a pen with you for use in restaurants.

 

[explanade]

I haven't ridden the trains in Spain too much but in other European countries, you definitely want chip and PIN for the kiosks, which have much shorter lines than waiting for the ticket counter.

And I wouldn't assume they have NFC for Apple Pay.

The other use case is gas stations, which are often unmanned. If it's an older gas station, not likely to have NFC either.

Definitely good to have a backup. I have First Tech Credit Union card. Their website is a hassle for paying off the card but no fee so I deal with it.

 

[braumeister]

I'll be taking a couple of standard "chip and signature" cards along with my Schwab ATM/debit card for cash withdrawals. Will this be good enough to make my trip (almost) entirely hassle-free

I would say it's good enough.

For me, there is a substantial convenience factor in having a card that defaults to PIN instead of signature, but 99 times out of 100 you should be fine, although there will be the extra step now and then. Even in train stations and elsewhere when the PIN is expected, you can usually find a ticket booth where you can use your card and sign for it.

 

[audreyh1]

I haven't ridden the trains in Spain too much but in other European countries, you definitely want chip and PIN for the kiosks, which have much shorter lines than waiting for the ticket counter.

And I wouldn't assume they have NFC for Apple Pay.

The other use case is gas stations, which are often unmanned. If it's an older gas station, not likely to have NFC either.

Definitely good to have a backup. I have First Tech Credit Union card. Their website is a hassle for paying off the card but no fee so I deal with it.

The Schwab debit card works fine for buying tickets at a machine.

I actually bought my Spain train tickets online through Loco2.com and had the hotel print them for me. That was more convenient.

The longer distance or high speed tickets for transfers between cities I had bought ahead anyway and printed at home.

 

[explanade]

I hate signing.

Use Apple Pay whenever I can. Fortunately, more and more places in Europe have NFC.

 

[explanade]

The Schwab debit card works fine for this.

I actually bought my Spain train tickets online through Loco2.com and had the hotel print them for me. That was more convenient.

The longer distance or high speed tickets for transfers between cities I had bought ahead anyway and printed at home.

Yeah but you don't get points for using the Schwab card.

 

[EveryLady]

We're usually in Europe for 5 to 6 weeks each summer, now just returned from Greece and various Balkan countries. For the last couple of years I've carried the Bank of America Travel Rewards card (no annual fee, a true chip-and-pin card) but never needed to use it.

For most metros, the Chase Sapphire chip-and-signature card continues to work fine (default to no signature required) ... in the past, whenever there was a periodic problem with train tickets, an AMEX that we no longer have did the trick. This trip there often was no pre-purchase of train tickets possible either online or in ticket machines. Counter-only with some still hand-written.

The Charles Schwab debit card is our default card for withdrawing cash and so I'd probably be loathe to overuse it in other machines for fear it might be captured.

Good to have multiple back-ups. The one odd wrinkle this time was that for some reason Eurobank did not recognize the Charles Schwab high-yield checking account. There wasn't even an option for a checking account withdrawal through Eurobank but only from "savings accounts." No problem with other local banks.

So you never know ...

 

[Sojourner]

The other use case is gas stations, which are often unmanned. If it's an older gas station, not likely to have NFC either.

Definitely good to have a backup. I have First Tech Credit Union card. Their website is a hassle for paying off the card but no fee so I deal with it.

I've been looking at the First Tech cards, and it seems like all their MasterCards are true chip-and-PIN. Since I'll be driving a lot, it would be nice to have a card that works seamlessly at most gas stations, so I'm tempted to get one of these cards just for that reason. However, could I just as easily use my Schwab debit card -- which is definitely a chip, but does it have PIN priority? I'm not concerned about losing a few rewards points or small amounts of "cash back" in these kinds of situations by using a debit card instead of a rewards credit card. I just want to minimize the hassle of actually making these purchases while traveling overseas.