Chip and PIN credit cards for Europe

[rayvt]

So does it even make sense for me to go to Pen Fed and get a chip and pin cc for Europe UK trip in Oct. What other card would be comparable? I have an Am Ex and a Bank of America cash back Visa but I need to check on foreign transaction fees.

Yes. FWIW, we picked out own PIN.

Penfed has no foreign transaction fee. Neither does Discover, but Discover is useless outside of the US, nobody takes it.

Capital One also has no fee. No chip, either, but no bid deal. Even with the Penfed card they always ask for a signature.

 

[Alan]

So does it even make sense for me to go to Pen Fed and get a chip and pin cc for Europe UK trip in Oct. What other card would be comparable? I have an Am Ex and a Bank of America cash back Visa but I need to check on foreign transaction fees.

Debbie

Sent from my KFJWI using Tapatalk HD

Yes, it is still worth having since all the CHiP and PIN machines work with the card except unattended kiosks. I am concerned about my ability to get cash from an ATM in Australia since I don't have a US Chip enabled ATM card, but I do have my UK CHip and Pin debit card and have sufficient funds for the small amounts of cash I expect I will need, even though we will be there for over 4 months.

Alan, you are the chip and pin crusader for the rest of us! I would wager that you know a lot more about how these cards should work than the credit card companies issuing them in the USA do.

Since Chip and Pin became very common in the UK about 10 years ago I have been caught out 3 times in pubs and a small restaurant trying to pay for meals. Each time I had to get someone else to pay. One time that person was my Dad, much to his amusement, the other two times were UK business colleagues.

I'll let you all know how the new card works next month.

 

[fosterscik]

I've had a Marriott chip and signature card (issued by chase) for a year or so but I am also frustrated by the PIN absence. Just today I applied for, and was approved for, a Barclaycard Arrival Plus World Elite MasterCard. It's supposed to be a chip and signature which defaults to pin use when signature is unavailable. It's a new product from them so it's hard to tell how well it really works but it sounds promising. It does have an annual fee (waived first year) but the rewards seem good. Once I have it, and have had the chance to try it out, I'll update.

 

[Alan]

I've had a Marriott chip and signature card (issued by chase) for a year or so but I am also frustrated by the PIN absence. Just today I applied for, and was approved for, a Barclaycard Arrival Plus World Elite MasterCard. It's supposed to be a chip and signature which defaults to pin use when signature is unavailable. It's a new product from them so it's hard to tell how well it really works but it sounds promising. It does have an annual fee (waived first year) but the rewards seem good. Once I have it, and have had the chance to try it out, I'll update.

Look forward to hearing how you get on with it.

 

[brett]

We live in Canada. PIN cards have been the standard for about three-four years. 4 didgit PINS The chip card is standard issue-no charge by any Canadian financial institution that I am aware of.

I recall reading an article that the Canadian Bankers Assoc. estimated (in 2012-2013) that the PIN cards have reduced credit card fraud by 25-30 percent-a significant amount if this estimate is correct.

We input our PIN for all purchases. Used it yesterday at Safeway to pay a $4. purchase. Same process for a $3K purchase.

I am told that some merchants like it because prior to PINS, they had to call for credit authorization on some cards/cardholders. This procedure is apparently no longer required with a PIN card. We have PIN on our bank convenience card as well. We never use this debit card for purchases.

Not certain why this is not common. We have used the PIN in Europe and in SE Asia. without any issue.

 

[kcowan]

The chip card is standard issue-no charge by any Canadian financial institution that I am aware of...

The retailers pay extra in their fees for processing PIN cards. This was big news back when Visa did a forced conversion to "Infinite" series cards.

(This is especially troubling to retailers because the banks suffer lower losses with these cards.)

 

[Alan]

The retailers pay extra in their fees for processing PIN cards. This was big news back when Visa did a forced conversion to "Infinite" series cards.

(This is especially troubling to retailers because the banks suffer lower losses with these cards.)

According to this WSJ article Walmart are suing VISA for $5B and as part of the suit is the the slow adoption of CHIP and PIN which they want.

Who knows where the truth really lies in these charges....

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304688104579465690629247558

"Wal-Mart was further harmed by anti-innovation conduct on the part of Visa and the banks, such as perpetuating the use of fraud-prone magnetic stripe system in the U.S. and the continued use of signature authentication despite knowledge that PIN authentication is more secure, a fact Visa has acknowledged repeatedly," it said in the suit.

 

[explanade]

I got on okay last year in London without a PIN.

Been about 4 years since I went to Sydney, where I had no trouble withdrawing money with my mag stripe cards.

 

[Alan]

Been about 4 years since I went to Sydney, where I had no trouble withdrawing money with my mag stripe cards.

Thanks, that sounds promising.

 

[kcowan]

Who knows where the truth really lies in these charges....

There are also the lawsuits about Visa Debit cards that charge a percentage rather than a transaction fee....

 

[explanade]

I'd imagine Australia would be denying itself a lot of American tourist dollars if it didn't accommodate US credit and ATM cards in some way.

 

[Alan]

I'd imagine Australia would be denying itself a lot of American tourist dollars if it didn't accommodate US credit and ATM cards in some way.

Americans aren't denied spending money, it is just more inconvenient in some places, and the fraud savings from CHIP and PIN is worth it for most every country.

Credit cards will only be a problem at unattended kiosks, such as the parking lots one encounters all over the UK and the one I encountered in Canada.

Similarly with ATM machines, to get cash one would have to get it inside a bank or at a money exchange where there is an attendant with a swipe machine. (I don't know that ATM's only take CHIP and PIN in Australia, but I'm expecting that to be the case since my US ATM card didn't work in the one I tried in Dublin last year)

 

[Meadbh]

For what it's worth, at many US gas stations I cannot just insert my credit card and pump gas. Since I do not have a Zip code, the gas pump rejects me. I have to go inside, have the attendant register a limit on my credit card and open the pump, go outside, pump the gas, return inside to complete the transaction and retrieve my credit card.

I recently read that there is a dummy number one can use for a Zip code. Must look that up before my next road trip to the US.

Edited to add:

Ah yes, here it is!

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life...t-us-pumps-with-credit-again/article13463053/

 

[Alan]

For what it's worth, at many US gas stations I cannot just insert my credit card and pump gas. Since I do not have a Zip code, the gas pump rejects me. I have to go inside, have the attendant register a limit on my credit card and open the pump, go outside, pump the gas, return inside to complete the transaction and retrieve my credit card.

I recently read that there is a dummy number one can use for a Zip code. Must look that up before my next road trip to the US.

Edited to add:

Ah yes, here it is!

Finally! Canadians able to pay at U.S. pumps with credit again - The Globe and Mail

Cool, I assumed cards with a foreign address were stuck with the inconvenience of having to pay inside.

We have had similar issues paying for vacations/cruises in the UK as the systems only accept cards with a UK address. Last year we actually had to get SIL to pay for our package to Spain on her credit card and we immediately transferred the money to her. (Even though we had a UK card to pay for it the card is linked to our Texas address).

 

[Meadbh]

Some years ago a team member left our organization to move to NYC with her husband. Some time later they had a baby. We decided to send them a gift card from a major NYC store. Ordering online proved to be problematic, so I called on the phone. Sak's Fifth Avenue's Customer Service Department informed me that Sak's "do not sell to foreigners". WTF??

We went with Macy's, who had no problem accepting Canadian money.

 

[Alan]

Some years ago a team member left our organization to move to NYC with her husband. Some time later they had a baby. We decided to send them a gift card from a major NYC store. Ordering online proved to be problematic, so I called on the phone. Sak's Fifth Avenue's Customer Service Department informed me that Sak's "do not sell to foreigners". WTF??

We went with Macy's, who had no problem accepting Canadian money.

 

[Chuckanut]

I've never had a problem using my old fashioned stripped ATM card in a European ATM machine. Now, credit cards have been a problem when the only way to get a train ticket is a machine and it does not like my non chipped card. Usually, I get plenty of local cash. Most everybody and everything accepts that.

 

[CoolChange]

I've never had a problem using my old fashioned stripped ATM card in a European ATM machine....

+1 for New Zealand (similar systems to Australia), Central America and Carri bean Islands (when I can find an ATM) as well as anywhere in the EU.

I do limit my PIN to four (4) digits since this used to be a limitation on some ATM machines.

I have run into issues with USA based credit cards at unattended kiosks and small merchants; so, I do carry more cash (for the small merchants) when traveling than I do at home, small bills being much more useful.

 

[explanade]

I've never had a problem using my old fashioned stripped ATM card in a European ATM machine. Now, credit cards have been a problem when the only way to get a train ticket is a machine and it does not like my non chipped card. Usually, I get plenty of local cash. Most everybody and everything accepts that.

Me neither.

I never take a lot of USD to exchange or travelers checks.

Try to use credit card whenever possible.

I'm sure though that the day will come when you need a chipped ATM card. But I think the PIN is less problematic than card which require signature.

A card with mag stripe can be easily counterfeited. But the mass counterfeiters can't work around needing to know the PINs that go with a particular ATM card.

A thief could spy you entering your PIN and pickpocket you after observing the PIN but that's a low probability. Now if they confronted you and forced you to give up your card and PIN or robbed you after you made a withdrawal, that's a more likely to succeed criminal strategy than stealing/cloning and spying your PIN.

But violent crime is not what these thieves are about. They want to steAl the info and steal money before the theft is detected. Violent crime is going to be reported right away.

 

[Rustic23]

I was on the USAA site yesterday and they said they would be replacing card with chip and pin, starting 2014 and would be complete by 2016. They also said if you were planning a trip to Europe the would replace your card on request now.

 

[Alan]

I got my PIN in the mail today for the new Penfed CHIP card I got a few days ago. It clearly states that this PIN is for use in ATM machines to receive cash. So, with the words "VISA Signature" on the front of the card and the PIN instructions today and past recent experience then I'm sure I have a Penfed CHIP and Signature card despite what their website and their rep says.

I listened to a BBC Moneybox program a few weeks back where they were warning about a spike in fraud where thieves see a "target" entering a PIN at a machine then either later steal the wallet or purse, and obtain cash from an ATM before the card is cancelled.

 

[Alan]

I was on the USAA site yesterday and they said they would be replacing card with chip and pin, starting 2014 and would be complete by 2016. They also said if you were planning a trip to Europe the would replace your card on request now.

Looks good, and the USAA site clearly states CHIP and PIN, with instructions on how to use it.

http://content.usaa.com/mcontent/static_assets/om/Media/docs/126885.pdf

 

[Peter]

I got my PIN in the mail today for the new Penfed CHIP card I got a few days ago. It clearly states that this PIN is for use in ATM machines to receive cash. So, with the words "VISA Signature" on the front of the card and the PIN instructions today and past recent experience then I'm sure I have a Penfed CHIP and Signature card despite what their website and their rep says.

Alan, I don't think the 'signature' part refers to the card being a chip and signature type. The 'signature' branding appears on non chip cards as well. It's a minor benefits upgrade to standard Visa cards ... you supposedly get priority access to concerts, restaurants, etc. I did get a free blanket when we went to a Steely Dan concert a while back.

 

[audreyh1]

My BofA chip and signature VISA says signature, but my PenFed chip and pin cash rewards VISA says platinum in the same spot, so who knows.

Actually, the PIN they sent me says it can be used in any ATM. It doesn't say ONLY for ATM use.

AFAIK - I have the right card.

We opted for a system generated PIN. Maybe there is no difference.

 

[Alan]

My BofA chip and signature VISA says signature, but my PenFed chip and pin cash rewards VISA says platinum in the same spot, so who knows.

Actually, the PIN they sent me says it can be used in any ATM. It doesn't say ONLY for ATM use.

AFAIK - I have the right card.

We opted for a system generated PIN. Maybe there is no difference.

The CHIP and PIn card I had that only worked as chip and signature said Platinum in the same spot but as I said above it wouldn't work in an unattended kiosk in Canada and never prompted for a PIN which is why they said it was a faulty CHIP and changed it. Now it says Signature where it once said Platinum, and I did opt for a system generated PIN as that is what the rep told me would work.

I don't expect it to work as CHIP and PIN in Australia, but I have a backup UK card that will work.

I surrender.