Chip and PIN credit cards for Europe

[audreyh1]

OK, really annoyed with Munich.

First, the only card I could use to buy the S bahn tickets at the airport was my First Tech MasterCard.

It's never failed me, working in Brussels train kiosks when my other cards wouldn't.

But then I tried to buy S bahn tickets back to the airport from the main Munich train station (Hauptbahnhof) and it repeatedly said invalid card.

So I had to withdraw more cash and pay for it that way. It was before 4:30 AM in the morning to especially annoying. Also suspiciously, there was often one ATM machine at each of these clusters of MVV kiosks.

Anyways, a lot of businesses in Munich use terminals with contactless support, so I was able to make purchases with Apple Pay. The Germans (and Austrians) use contactless cards though, not so much mobile payments.

But the MVV hasn't updated their kiosks to put in NFC chips yet. I've seen some other kiosks, like at parking garages, have NFC chips. Other systems in the world also have the latest payment methods supported.

Yes, the Munich Hauptbahnhof DBahn kiosks do not accept overseas credit cards from what I can tell. I haven't tried using a debit card.

 

[explanade]

Which makes no sense. Munich is near a border and has direct S-bahn links to a major international airport.

So there are going to be a lot of foreigners going through that station.

 

[audreyh1]

Which makes no sense. Munich is near a border and has direct S-bahn links to a major international airport.

So there are going to be a lot of foreigners going through that station.

Yes there are. But I don't think it's that usual blocking overseas issued credit cards. I think the French train system kiosks often won't either, although they will accept US issued debit cards.

 

[jonat]

No problem using a US credit card for train and bus tickets at kiosks in Switzerland.

 

[Sunset]

I had no issues in Hungary at a store and tourist attraction, and Austria subway using the Barclay Credit card chip & pin card.

 

[gerntz]

Austrian prices are more reasonable than I recall Switzerland prices being.

Let me if any place has less reasonable prices than Switzerland. Haven't seen any & don't want to.

 

[audreyh1]

No problem using a US credit card for train and bus tickets at kiosks in Switzerland.

Usually not a problem in the Netherlands. Although some machines in smaller trains stations did not accept any credit cards at all.

I didn't have trouble in Austria either.

 

[jonat]

Let me if any place has less reasonable prices than Switzerland. Haven't seen any & don't want to.

I gather you haven't been to Iceland, then. I just traveled from Zurich to Reykjavik, and can promise you that Switzerland is bargain-basement compared to Iceland. Oslo, Norway is also far pricier than Switzerland. I'll agree that Switzerland is more expensive than most countries, but nothing prepared me for the sticker shock in Reykjavik.

FWIW, I have a chip-and-sig card and not once did I have trouble using it across some eight countries.

 

[Sunset]

I gather you haven't been to Iceland, then. I just traveled from Zurich to Reykjavik, and can promise you that Switzerland is bargain-basement compared to Iceland. Oslo, Norway is also far pricier than Switzerland. I'll agree that Switzerland is more expensive than most countries, but nothing prepared me for the sticker shock in Reykjavik.

FWIW, I have a chip-and-sig card and not once did I have trouble using it across some eight countries.

Can you give an example or two of the sticker shock in Reykjavik Iceland ??

 

[athena53]

Can you give an example or two of the sticker shock in Reykjavik Iceland ??

I know you addressed this to jonat, but here are a few examples from my trip last month: Horsemeat steak with baked potato and salad, $36 before drinks or dessert (posted outside- did not try it). Long lines every day outside hot dog stand where one went for $4.50. Large plastic cup of fresh veggies and dip (similar to those found in convenience stores here)- $7. Dinner with a friend- two medium-size pizzas and 4 beers- $62. Grocery store on day trip to Greenland- can of tuna (imported from Thailand) plus a loaf of homemade bread- $9. When DH and I were in Reykjavik two years ago one restaurant advertised a lunch special of puffin and whale- $50 per person. Drinks extra. (Did not try that either.)

That was my second trip to Iceland and I love it so much I'll be back- but it was a blessing to be in an Airbnb apartment with a kitchen.

 

[jonat]

50cl flask of house wine - $35. (Alcohol is VERY expensive - one is advised to stock up at the airport store before heading into town if you can.) The $4.50 hot dog is actually pretty good for the price (had one yesterday). But I bought a simple wool cap and two pairs of Polarfleece gloves, not even made in Iceland - $150.

Some things seem expensive but are worth it - the Braud & Co. cinnamon rolls, at $4.50, for example. But last night my wife and I had dinner for two (set menu) with 50cl wine - $210.

 

[athena53]

But I bought a simple wool cap and two pairs of Polarfleece gloves, not even made in Iceland - $150.

You need to knit your own! Icelandic yarn is comparatively cheap and it's wonderful stuff. The hat I brought with me was one I'd knitted from yarn bought on my last trip.

I'd thought it might be fun to buy a high-end local brand of cold-weather wear (66 degrees North). I like the subterfuge of buying something high-quality that's not a brand name most people in the US would recognize. The jackets ran $400-$500- and they were made in Latvia. No, thanks.

Sorry for the Iceland Travel Blog tangent, everyone- but it's one of my favorite destinations despite the high prices!

 

[braumeister]

Yes, the Munich Hauptbahnhof DBahn kiosks do not accept overseas credit cards from what I can tell. I haven't tried using a debit card.

No longer true.
They were quite happy with my FirstTech Mastercard last week.

 

[audreyh1]

No longer true.
They were quite happy with my FirstTech Mastercard last week.

Well that's great to know. Explanade had the same card and it didn't work there very recently. ??

 

[braumeister]

I should add that the transactions in those machines took longer than normal. Probably 20 seconds delay after entering my PIN. But I was just happy it worked. That's my default card now in Europe.

 

[explanade]

Well that's great to know. Explanade had the same card and it didn't work there very recently. ??

Yeah I used it there on the morning of 9/7/17.

Tried at the street level kiosks in the main hall, before the train tracks at the back.

Also tried one level down where all the food places are. Ended up buying there with cash and then went down the escalator to the S bahn tracks.

But like I said, the same kiosks at the airport baggage claim worked two weeks before.

Inconsistent.

 

[explanade]

50cl flask of house wine - $35. (Alcohol is VERY expensive - one is advised to stock up at the airport store before heading into town if you can.) The $4.50 hot dog is actually pretty good for the price (had one yesterday). But I bought a simple wool cap and two pairs of Polarfleece gloves, not even made in Iceland - $150.

Some things seem expensive but are worth it - the Braud & Co. cinnamon rolls, at $4.50, for example. But last night my wife and I had dinner for two (set menu) with 50cl wine - $210.

When we went to Norway last year, I booked the same chain of hotels in Oslo, Bergen and Alesund because they include dinner. Not great food, just mostly salad bar and one or two hot fishes of meat and fish.

But it looked like some normal meal would have cost at least $50 per person. I checked some menus online. Some nice fish dishes would have been $50 and up.

 

[braumeister]

Yeah I used it there on the morning of 9/7/17.

Tried at the street level kiosks in the main hall, before the train tracks at the back.

Also tried one level down where all the food places are. Ended up buying there with cash and then went down the escalator to the S bahn tracks.

Worked for me in Munich on 8/31. Last time I was there I used the PenFed Visa, but that's my secondary now over there.

The only thing I can suggest is to try all available machines. I had an experience once in the train station in either Brussels or Bruges (I forget which) where the first kiosk rejected my card while the one ten feet away happily accepted it.

 

[audreyh1]

I should add that the transactions in those machines took longer than normal. Probably 20 seconds delay after entering my PIN. But I was just happy it worked. That's my default card now in Europe.

It worked super well for me.

I wish I had thought of trying my chipped debit card the very few times a machine said "invalid card" or "card refused" which to me indicated it did not accept credit cards. But I just didn't think of it because there was usually a quick solution a couple of steps away.

 

[BigNick]

When we went to Norway last year, I booked the same chain of hotels in Oslo, Bergen and Alesund because they include dinner. Not great food, just mostly salad bar and one or two hot fishes of meat and fish.

But it looked like some normal meal would have cost at least $50 per person. I checked some menus online. Some nice fish dishes would have been $50 and up.

We went to Iceland in June of this year on a home (and car) exchange. $0 for room and car rental makes a big difference to the budget! But yeah, sticker shock. $30 for a (nice but not special) burger and fries. $10-12 for a beer to go with that. $6 for a Coke (but it was half a litre). $7.50 for a gas station chicken sandwich.

In some ways the best value was at the middle-to-high-end restaurants. We had a couple of $100 tasting menus that were on a par with what might cost $70 in France, so they were more expensive but not outrageously so. (But then we didn't have the wine pairings that we might have made in France.) At small places in Reyjkavik, the "fish of the day" makes for an affordable (though not inexpensive) lunch and is usually very good.

That said, we met some people who lived in Manhattan who said "Meh, it's only a little more than back home". And indeed, we went to NYC at the end of July and we didn't feel the need for cocktails outside of happy hour, once we'd added 27% for tax and tip. (Icelandic prices are all-inclusive, and there is no tipping culture, except in places that get a lot of Americans.)

There is an Icelandic airline called Wow Air that specialises in getting Americans to Europe (and vice versa) cheaply using Boeing 737s. Two four-hour flights and you've gone from London to New York with barely any less leg room than in cattle class on a 757. They have has fun with their aircraft registration codes, too: they have TF-MOM, TF-DAD, TF-BRO, TF-SIS, and (flying the San Francisco route, of course) TF-GAY.

 

[explanade]

I did try several machines.

I think contactless cards are taking off in Europe because the transactions are faster and doesn't require keying in PIN, at least for transactions below a certain amount.

And everywhere where Contactless cards work, Apple Pay works.

Spain seems to have more contactless terminals than Germany or Austria. Maybe just a matter of merchants updating their hardware. The thing is, these little wireless terminals that they bring over to your table at restaurants can't be too much in price.

Yet US merchants, especially restaurants, won't buy them and it's hard to fathom why.

Well one possible reason is that contactless doesn't make it easy to add a tip. I went to one new place here in CA and Apple Pay worked but they wanted me to sign. I had to tell the restaurant manager that the point with Apple Pay is that I don't sign. The Apple Pay number that gets printed on the receipt has no tie to me anyways. That's the whole point about security. But big chains hate that because they want to track your spending, especially with rewards or loyalty programs.

The manager at this restaurant said that if I don't sign, I won't be able to tip. My order was to go.

 

[explanade]

We went to Iceland in June of this year on a home (and car) exchange. $0 for room and car rental makes a big difference to the budget! But yeah, sticker shock. $30 for a (nice but not special) burger and fries. $10-12 for a beer to go with that. $6 for a Coke (but it was half a litre). $7.50 for a gas station chicken sandwich.

In some ways the best value was at the middle-to-high-end restaurants. We had a couple of $100 tasting menus that were on a par with what might cost $70 in France, so they were more expensive but not outrageously so. (But then we didn't have the wine pairings that we might have made in France.) At small places in Reyjkavik, the "fish of the day" makes for an affordable (though not inexpensive) lunch and is usually very good.

That said, we met some people who lived in Manhattan who said "Meh, it's only a little more than back home". And indeed, we went to NYC at the end of July and we didn't feel the need for cocktails outside of happy hour, once we'd added 27% for tax and tip. (Icelandic prices are all-inclusive, and there is no tipping culture, except in places that get a lot of Americans.)

There is an Icelandic airline called Wow Air that specialises in getting Americans to Europe (and vice versa) cheaply using Boeing 737s. Two four-hour flights and you've gone from London to New York with barely any less leg room than in cattle class on a 757. They have has fun with their aircraft registration codes, too: they have TF-MOM, TF-DAD, TF-BRO, TF-SIS, and (flying the San Francisco route, of course) TF-GAY.

Iceland is on my bucket list but I haven't researched it to see when is the best time to go. Of course if you go in late summer, probably best chance to avoid bad weather.

But you have to go in the winter to see the Northern Lights I believe.

 

[audreyh1]

Spain seems to have more contactless terminals than Germany or Austria. Maybe just a matter of merchants updating their hardware. The thing is, these little wireless terminals that they bring over to your table at restaurants can't be too much in price.

Yet US merchants, especially restaurants, won't buy them and it's hard to fathom why.

Well one possible reason is that contactless doesn't make it easy to add a tip. I went to one new place here in CA and Apple Pay worked but they wanted me to sign. I had to tell the restaurant manager that the point with Apple Pay is that I don't sign. The Apple Pay number that gets printed on the receipt has no tie to me anyways. That's the whole point about security. But big chains hate that because they want to track your spending, especially with rewards or loyalty programs.

The manager at this restaurant said that if I don't sign, I won't be able to tip. My order was to go.

Yeah I wonder also. You might have something there about the tip. In Europe we leave cash tips. But I have also run into wireless terminals that let you add a tip.

 

[braumeister]

Iceland is on my bucket list but I haven't researched it to see when is the best time to go. Of course if you go in late summer, probably best chance to avoid bad weather.

But you have to go in the winter to see the Northern Lights I believe.

IMHO, any time is good.
My first trip to Iceland (long ago) was in January. Spent a couple of weeks there and loved it.

 

[meierlde]

Yeah I wonder also. You might have something there about the tip. In Europe we leave cash tips. But I have also run into wireless terminals that let you add a tip.

The devices at Chillis do allow tipping (as well as sell games on the side). In Chillis the device is assigned to a single table so it stays there and this is how it knows which bill to present. It presents a screen where you can set the tip with a slider to vary the amount. Of course they still swipe and don't use the chip.