Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Re: Dividend ideas?
Old 05-06-2005, 01:04 PM   #21
Moderator Emeritus
laurence's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: San Diego
Posts: 5,234
Re: Dividend ideas?

Well, I was only concerned that they would "close" the funds or some other thing that hoses me. But I worry too much. I'm in Wellington and Vanguard index fund now, with a side of international and small cap. But Wellesly is on the short list for post ER investment.
__________________

__________________
laurence is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Re: Dividend ideas?
Old 05-06-2005, 01:12 PM   #22
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
wabmester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 4,459
Re: Dividend ideas?

Don't worry about Vanguard closing funds. There's nothing magic about Wellington or Wellesley -- they are both simply balanced funds (I think one is 60/40 while the other is 40/60). You can easily replicate the same results with your own balanced portfolio. I'm not aware of any evidence that either of those funds performed better than balanced index funds, but hopefully somebody will correct me if I'm wrong.
__________________

__________________
wabmester is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Dividend ideas?
Old 05-06-2005, 01:34 PM   #23
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
cute fuzzy bunny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Losing my whump
Posts: 22,697
Re: Dividend ideas?

I hate to do it too...

Wellesley and Wellington have better 1, 5 and 10 year returns than the vanguard balanced index fund while also producing a higher yield, although you will pay a few basis points more for the value tilted, actively managed wellington and wellesley.

Wellington is 60/40, wellesley is 35/65.

The 5 year numbers are particularly striking: 9.9% for wellesley and 7.41% for wellington...a whopping 1.9% for the balanced fund.
__________________
Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful. Just another form of "buy low, sell high" for those who have trouble with things. This rule is not universal. Do not buy a 1973 Pinto because everyone else is afraid of it.
cute fuzzy bunny is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Dividend ideas?
Old 05-06-2005, 01:40 PM   #24
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
wabmester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 4,459
Re: Dividend ideas?

Quote:
Originally Posted by th
The 5 year numbers are particularly striking: 9.9% for wellesley and 7.41% for wellington...a whopping 1.9% for the balanced fund.
TH, you should have been in marketing. Oh wait, you were.

That's exactly how funds market their returns -- by selecting the one term where they outperformed and ignoring all others. As Cut-Throat and Bernstein would say, the long-term results are the only that matter. How did those two funds compare with an equivalent 30-year balanced index approach?
__________________
wabmester is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Dividend ideas?
Old 05-06-2005, 01:59 PM   #25
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
cute fuzzy bunny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Losing my whump
Posts: 22,697
Re: Dividend ideas?

Hard to say without doing more looking; the vanguard balanced fund has only been around for 12 years.

However over the past 35 years Wellesley has only trailed the S&P500 by ~1% per year while putting out more than twice the dividend and with far less volatility.

And I wasnt picking 'one term'; the wellesley and wellington funds outperformed the balanced index fund in EVERY term. All of them.

Going back to 1928, Wellington also produced more than a 4% SWR plus average inflation on an annualized basis...going back to 1970, wellesley has done better than that...you could have taken about 7% annually from a wellesley investment and still kept up with inflation.
__________________
Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful. Just another form of "buy low, sell high" for those who have trouble with things. This rule is not universal. Do not buy a 1973 Pinto because everyone else is afraid of it.
cute fuzzy bunny is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Dividend ideas?
Old 05-06-2005, 02:16 PM   #26
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
wabmester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 4,459
Re: Dividend ideas?

OK, I took your best-case return differences (5 year) and compared VBIAX (60/40 balanced) with Wellington (also about 60/40), and this is what I got:

__________________
wabmester is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Dividend ideas?
Old 05-06-2005, 02:19 PM   #27
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 7,409
Re: Dividend ideas?

Let's be blunt - Wellington and Wellesley have been chasing the 'value premium' combined with the balanced stock/bond approach for a long time - AND doing a reasonably good job executing same. I offen look at their top ten stock holdings for ideas.

A very good way to go - if it suits your style.

Bogle Financial Markets Research website used to have a decade by decade, blow by blow, 75 yr history of Wellington.

Interestingly - they suffered a brief(heh, heh male hormone attack) during/after the go-go era before they recovered and got back on track.

Gotta watch those hormones - even in dividend/value stocks.

__________________
unclemick is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Dividend ideas?
Old 05-06-2005, 02:23 PM   #28
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
cute fuzzy bunny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Losing my whump
Posts: 22,697
Re: Dividend ideas?

You picked the wrong symbol. Wellington is VWELX, not VWENX.

Heres the 5 year chart.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg wellington 5 year.JPG (41.1 KB, 55 views)
Attached Files
File Type: jpg_thumb wellington 5 year.JPG_thumb (14.7 KB, 0 views)
__________________
Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful. Just another form of "buy low, sell high" for those who have trouble with things. This rule is not universal. Do not buy a 1973 Pinto because everyone else is afraid of it.
cute fuzzy bunny is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Dividend ideas?
Old 05-06-2005, 02:26 PM   #29
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
cute fuzzy bunny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Losing my whump
Posts: 22,697
Re: Dividend ideas?

And the ten year...

Attached Images
File Type: jpg wellington 10 year.JPG (49.7 KB, 49 views)
Attached Files
File Type: jpg_thumb wellington 10 year.JPG_thumb (14.8 KB, 0 views)
__________________
Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful. Just another form of "buy low, sell high" for those who have trouble with things. This rule is not universal. Do not buy a 1973 Pinto because everyone else is afraid of it.
cute fuzzy bunny is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Dividend ideas?
Old 05-06-2005, 02:28 PM   #30
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
wabmester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 4,459
Re: Dividend ideas?

Quote:
Originally Posted by th
You picked the wrong symbol.* Wellington is VWELX, not VWENX.
I was comparing admiral shares.* * Wee, this is fun.* *Here's a comparison of investor shares:

__________________
wabmester is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Dividend ideas?
Old 05-06-2005, 02:30 PM   #31
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
cute fuzzy bunny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Losing my whump
Posts: 22,697
Re: Dividend ideas?

Now you're comparing share prices without reinvesting dividends?

And a 5 year comparison of vbinx with the admiral wellington and wellesley isnt going to work out very well since neither the wellington or wellesley admiral shares have been around for 5 years.

See what this super high speed ability to post incorrect information buys you?

Better mark down that hedonic adjustment for the computer a little bit...
__________________
Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful. Just another form of "buy low, sell high" for those who have trouble with things. This rule is not universal. Do not buy a 1973 Pinto because everyone else is afraid of it.
cute fuzzy bunny is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Dividend ideas?
Old 05-06-2005, 02:38 PM   #32
Moderator Emeritus
laurence's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: San Diego
Posts: 5,234
Re: Dividend ideas?

I was just about to ask where the dividends played into this, and as I was about to post a red warning came up on the page saying a new post was added, did I still want to continue? Ends up your post answered my question. This new board rules!

Now I need to figure out how my 401(k) DRIPs my Wellington holdings.
__________________
laurence is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Dividend ideas?
Old 05-06-2005, 02:43 PM   #33
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
wabmester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 4,459
Re: Dividend ideas?

Eh, it's all historical data anyway. * What we need is good quality future data. * And it's way too hard to find good historical data on various asset classes, but the bottom line is that if you believe the guys who have looked at the data, it's the asset classes that matter and few stock/bond pickers have done better than equivalent asset class indices over the long-term. * *I'm sure that includes the Vanguard dudes too. * * However, I'll concede your implied point that you can probably do better than *broad* market indices by going with a value and small tilt (at least by historic metrics).
__________________
wabmester is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Dividend ideas?
Old 05-06-2005, 02:44 PM   #34
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
cute fuzzy bunny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Losing my whump
Posts: 22,697
Re: Dividend ideas?

Something is amiss either with vanguard or yahoos charting tool...there arent many options in the yahoo tool for reinvestments or anything so I'm not sure whats going on there. Microsofts moneycentral produces the same graphs as vanguard does, so its something wrong with the yahoo tool.

For the same 10 year comparo with Wellesley vs VBINX, see below. Wellesley comes out on top and look at that nice smooth linear line showing low volatility. That a 35/65 fund is whomping a 60/40 really says something...
Attached Images
File Type: jpg wellesley 10 year.jpg (50.2 KB, 67 views)
Attached Files
File Type: jpg_thumb wellesley 10 year.jpg_thumb (13.2 KB, 0 views)
__________________
Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful. Just another form of "buy low, sell high" for those who have trouble with things. This rule is not universal. Do not buy a 1973 Pinto because everyone else is afraid of it.
cute fuzzy bunny is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Dividend ideas?
Old 05-06-2005, 02:50 PM   #35
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
wabmester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 4,459
Re: Dividend ideas?

Quote:
Originally Posted by th
That a 35/65 fund is whomping a 60/40 really says something...
Yeah, you're right. It says that stocks have sucked for the last 5 years.
__________________
wabmester is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Dividend ideas?
Old 05-06-2005, 04:04 PM   #36
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
wildcat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Lou-evil
Posts: 2,025
Re: Dividend ideas?

Whoa this thread is picking up!! I gotta ask TH...what the hell is that picture next to your name?
__________________
"These walls are kind of funny. First you hate 'em, then you get used to 'em. Enough time passes, gets so you depend on them"
wildcat is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Dividend ideas?
Old 05-06-2005, 04:27 PM   #37
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
cute fuzzy bunny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Losing my whump
Posts: 22,697
Re: Dividend ideas?

Thats the french guy in monty pythons 'holy grail' movie taunting the english. Do a google for "I fart in your general direction"...
__________________
Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful. Just another form of "buy low, sell high" for those who have trouble with things. This rule is not universal. Do not buy a 1973 Pinto because everyone else is afraid of it.
cute fuzzy bunny is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Dividend ideas?
Old 05-06-2005, 04:33 PM   #38
Moderator Emeritus
laurence's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: San Diego
Posts: 5,234
Re: Dividend ideas?

Now go avay or I will taunt you a second time-a!
__________________
laurence is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Dividend ideas?
Old 05-06-2005, 04:40 PM   #39
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
cute fuzzy bunny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Losing my whump
Posts: 22,697
Re: Dividend ideas?

Your mother was a hampster and your father smelled of elderberries!

I don't wanna talk to you no more, you empty headed animal food trough wiper!
__________________
Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful. Just another form of "buy low, sell high" for those who have trouble with things. This rule is not universal. Do not buy a 1973 Pinto because everyone else is afraid of it.
cute fuzzy bunny is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Dividend ideas?
Old 05-06-2005, 04:43 PM   #40
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
wildcat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Lou-evil
Posts: 2,025
Re: Dividend ideas?

Oh I thought it was some kind of rapper throwing out some wicked beats
__________________

__________________
"These walls are kind of funny. First you hate 'em, then you get used to 'em. Enough time passes, gets so you depend on them"
wildcat is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
No displayed dividend reinvestment in 401(k) a FIRE and Money 17 03-19-2007 10:12 PM
New dividend ETFs - int'l too. ats5g FIRE and Money 0 04-22-2006 07:32 PM
Question on Dividend Stocks or Funds modhatter FIRE and Money 43 10-03-2005 10:11 AM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:52 AM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.