DIY Will ????

[frayne]

During the process of my year end administrative house cleaning I found my will was somewhat outdated, by about twenty years. So this is my thought process, do it yourself, how hard can it be ? The particulars are straightforward and simple; one and only wife, only one married child, a son 38 successful, DIL and two minor grandchildren. All financial accounts are either TOD, POD and have beneficiaries, wife, son and DIL in that order.

The only assets the will would cover are the house, cars (held jointly)and personal effects. I have no intent to try to control anything from the grave and want to make my transition into the next dimension as easy as possible for my heirs.

Georgia has no estate tax and I'm well under the federal requirements so no big deal there. Only downside is the time it takes to probate, anywhere from six months to a year depending on complexity.

AFWIW I've already heard about trying to plan for contingencies such as the wife and son dying and the DIL getting remarried to the tennis pro and spending the proceeds on whatever excluding the grandkids from a piece of the pie and I really don't want to bother with that kind of issue as the chances are slim to none and where do you stop. Also have seen many families destroyed by some ass who died and tried to control his estate from the grave.

So anyone see any downside to a DIY will. In Georgia they don't even require notarizing but it is suggested in order to speed up the probate process. OK, sage sports fans and seers of all good and bad. Tell me what I might be missing. Appreciate any and all comments in advance.

 

[Senator]

No downside. You have a boring estate. No ex-wives, step children, or relatives you want to exclude.

 

[Walt34]

So anyone see any downside to a DIY will. In Georgia they don't even require notarizing but it is suggested in order to speed up the probate process. OK, sage sports fans and seers of all good and bad. Tell me what I might be missing. Appreciate any and all comments in advance.

I'd check with an estate attorney anyway. State laws vary and sometimes leaving out a single required instruction or even a specific word can negate the will.

For me the stakes are too high to risk trying to do a will myself. For us this is at most a "once every 20 years" kind of thing so the amortized cost is pretty small.

What you could do is get a DIY will, fill in the blanks, and then take it to the attorney and ask "Is there any reason a court would invalidate this will?" Since you've already done all the work the answer should be short, simple, and cheap.

 

[Jerry1]

What you could do is get a DIY will, fill in the blanks, and then take it to the attorney and ask "Is there any reason a court would invalidate this will?" Since you've already done all the work the answer should be short, simple, and cheap.

I was thinking around the same thing. Talked to a guy at work and he mentioned NOLO. Basically, Quicken Will Maker. I need to consider the entire package of documents (will, living trust, advance directive . . .). So I was thinking that I really shouldn't do something that important on my own, but that for under $100, I could buy some software and spend my time preparing the documents. Then, when I go to the attorney, I'd have done most of the thinking and the process would move considerably faster. I'm not dreaming that any attorney would use my documents, but at least my preparation should cut down on the time in the attorney's office and hopefully a few hundred to a grand off the bill.

 

[ShokWaveRider]

Nolo WillMaker... Very Easy.

 

[Luck_Club]

Nolo WillMaker... Very Easy.

+1 on the simple software packages. I checked one out of the library.

 

[sheehs1]

After having wills from both parents to go by, my own will that I paid a lawyer to do 15 plus years ago, I decided to write my own second version about 3 years ago. I included all paragraphs and statements in all prior wills and had it notarized.

Now that I have grandchildren, I plan to make my own changes and do the same thing. They were included in the last one but I'm now thinking about leaving them more.

The beauty of this is you can make the changes yourself.

 

[imoldernu]

Preparing the DIY will was relatively easy and straightforward. The prep was bringing together the documents and defining the physical properties that be included. A time to get organized, and to be sure that all physical and paper assets would be included. DW and I have separate, identical wills wills and have decided that there would be no need for a trust, although the trust framework was the basis for formalizing net worth and making it easier for our four sons to work through whatever might be necessary...selling our properties, cars, cycles, boat, golf cart etc. that have titles. In addition, we outlined our value estimates for jewelry, coin and stamp collections, and other collectibles. All copies of the will have been notarized, registered with the county and secured.

Our sons have all been part of our planning, and are comfortable with what will be necessary when the time comes. When one of us passes away or becomes unable to manage the responsibility, we will turn the will over to a lawyer, for formal review. In the meantime, we (and our sons) feel confident that we've covered the basics to avoid major problems.

 

[ERD50]

Nolo WillMaker... Very Easy.

+1 on the simple software packages. I checked one out of the library.

+2. From my experience, NOLO is clearer and does a better job of explaining things than the estate lawyer specialists I've dealt with for family. And with a straightforward situation, I think the downsides of a thought out DIY are lower than just accepting what some Estate Attorney would do. How do you really know of the attorney is any good? I don't know how to determine that. Recommendations are much like those for an FA - "he/she seems like a nice person."

-ERD50

 

[Doribe]

We updated 20 year old wills with he same lawyer for $300. I think it is worth it in Illinois. Safe than sorry. I want to make it as easy as possible on the kids.

 

[Souschef]

Both DW and I have been widowed, and both have children. We invested about $400 to have an attorney draw up a complete estate package. POA for finances, POA for health care, and pour over wills.

10th year of marriage
8th year of retirement
79th year of life

 

[Katsmeow]

I am an attorney. I did well in my wills and estates course in law school. However, it is not my area of law. So, I would not do my own will. Maybe I could do it. The point is that I think it would be imprudent for me to do so. I don't know what I don't know. it is an entirely unnecessary risk to take.

 

[CaliKid]

Get a living trust to avoid probate. Plus, you can leave your assets in trust to give your kid protection of a continuing trust even with him as the trustee. Talk to an attorney. It's a gift to your kid.

 

[Jerry1]

Nolo WillMaker... Very Easy.

+1 on the simple software packages. I checked one out of the library.

I just bought WillMaker. It's currently 40% off so it was just over $40. I will still have a lawyer prepare the final documents, but I have already used this enough to see that it will be helpful in the process. My wife and I can sort everything out (at home) and then spend less time in the attorney's office. Can't imagine that I won't save the cost of the program.

 

[ERD50]

I am an attorney. I did well in my wills and estates course in law school. However, it is not my area of law. So, I would not do my own will. Maybe I could do it. The point is that I think it would be imprudent for me to do so. I don't know what I don't know. it is an entirely unnecessary risk to take.

But the problem becomes, how does the average person find an attorney that they can be sure does know their stuff?

I have been unimpressed with the place my in-laws used, even though they have all the credentials that would make you think they are a top notch place. I found mistakes in their documents, they couldn't explain things that they wrote 20 years ago (same guy). Their software spits out generic boilerplate to dazzle the client.

But at least with something like NOLO, it has some of the benefits of open-source software. There have been many, many eyes on it, it's standardized and there is feedback to improve it. I'm sure that's not perfect, but I personally have far more faith in it than some private practice where I have no real way to verify if they are competent or not.

-ERD50

 

[ERD50]

I just bought WillMaker. It's currently 40% off so it was just over $40. I will still have a lawyer prepare the final documents, but I have already used this enough to see that it will be helpful in the process. My wife and I can sort everything out (at home) and then spend less time in the attorney's office. Can't imagine that I won't save the cost of the program.

I think that's a reasonable approach. By DIY, you can learn the basics, and are not entirely dependent on the attorney. A little knowledge is powerful.

-ERD50

 

[CaliKid]

But the problem becomes, how does the average person find an attorney that they can be sure does know their stuff?

I have been unimpressed with the place my in-laws used, even though they have all the credentials that would make you think they are a top notch place. I found mistakes in their documents, they couldn't explain things that they wrote 20 years ago (same guy). Their software spits out generic boilerplate to dazzle the client.

But at least with something like NOLO, it has some of the benefits of open-source software. There have been many, many eyes on it, it's standardized and there is feedback to improve it. I'm sure that's not perfect, but I personally have far more faith in it than some private practice where I have no real way to verify if they are competent or not.

-ERD50

Open source software with input from laypeople. If that's your criteria check out Wealthcounsel.com for qualified attorneys. Their software is pretty expensive ($500/month) so the lawyers that do use it (many thousands) tend to be higher level/focused estate attorneys. Their documents are very good in my opinion.

 

[Katsmeow]

But the problem becomes, how does the average person find an attorney that they can be sure does know their stuff?

I have been unimpressed with the place my in-laws used, even though they have all the credentials that would make you think they are a top notch place. I found mistakes in their documents, they couldn't explain things that they wrote 20 years ago (same guy). Their software spits out generic boilerplate to dazzle the client.

But at least with something like NOLO, it has some of the benefits of open-source software. There have been many, many eyes on it, it's standardized and there is feedback to improve it. I'm sure that's not perfect, but I personally have far more faith in it than some private practice where I have no real way to verify if they are competent or not.

-ERD50

I don't see this as being inherently more difficult than finding any good professional. Sure, it may not be easy but it isn't easy to find a good physician either. Yet, the last time I had surgery I didn't do it myself. I searched around to find someone with the expertise I needed and checked them out including finding patients of the surgeon in question and getting feedback. And I consulted with him and asked a bunch of question. I checked his credentials and made sure he was board certified in the field I was looking for. I checked online for anything I could find out. I checked the state to see if there were any disciplinary complaints. And, so on. Was this foolproof? No, of course not (although he turned out to do a great job). But, did it make me throw up my hands and say that I couldn't possibly select someone. No.

The problem with these software solutions or Nolo are I think two fold. One, people often don't follow directions. They think they are doing it but they are making subtle errors and they don't even know it. Second, you may think your situation is totally simple or easily handled by the software. But, you may be wrong. There may be a better solution that a real attorney would know.

And all of that is assuming that the software or Nolo or whatever is correct (i don't know whether they are or not -- I am only saying that even if they are I would not personally take them as a substitute for an actual attorney knowledgeable in the field. In my state, I would want someone board certified in estate planning and probate).

 

[Sunset]

I am an attorney. I did well in my wills and estates course in law school. However, it is not my area of law. So, I would not do my own will. Maybe I could do it. The point is that I think it would be imprudent for me to do so. I don't know what I don't know. it is an entirely unnecessary risk to take.

When I had a lawyer do a will, he used boiler plate software and just filled in the blanks for the names, etc.

I can totally agree if you have young children to leave large sums to, then it becomes complex to release the money in age stages.

I would advise anyone to check with their State on the Will requirements, especially for signing. Last time I looked at IL, the witnesses could not benefit from the will, so if you get asked to sign a will, you are not going to get anything..

 

[Katsmeow]

When I had a lawyer do a will, he used boiler plate software and just filled in the blanks for the names, etc.

I can totally agree if you have young children to leave large sums to, then it becomes complex to release the money in age stages.

I would advise anyone to check with their State on the Will requirements, especially for signing. Last time I looked at IL, the witnesses could not benefit from the will, so if you get asked to sign a will, you are not going to get anything..

If an attorney used software to fill in blanks, etc. it should be because the attorney knew enough to know which software to use, which form to use, etc. That is part of the expertise is knowing which form to use, etc. As far as checking on state will requirements, this can be more complex than people realize. I personally would not undertake it for myself even though I took wills and estates in law school and even though I am probably more well versed in how to look up legal requirements than the average person.

I mean I could understand do it yourself legal stuff for things that are trivial. Ones estate is generally not one of them.

 

[Bamaman]

I keep my business very simple, so Willmaker 2017 works for me. My wife and I have mirror image wills and all real estate is owned joint with rights of survivorship.

When one spouse dies, probate most likely will not be required. Only when the last spouse standing dies and real estate is owned is going through the probate process required. Then the kids inheriting the real estate will get a current real estate appraisal to come up with the "basis" of the real estste. If I earlier signed over real estate to the kids, the "basis" would be what I paid for the real estate and they might have a big tax bill to pay when the real estate is sold.I

All my Rollover IRAs have my wife as primary beneficiary and 2 kids 50/50 as secondary beneficiaries. My wife and myself are executors on each other's estate with the accountant daughter as secondary executor on both of our estates. If one of us died, the other one might do best to liquidate real estate to avoid probate all together.

 

[ERD50]

If an attorney used software to fill in blanks, etc. it should be because the attorney knew enough to know which software to use, which form to use, etc. That is part of the expertise is knowing which form to use, etc. As far as checking on state will requirements, this can be more complex than people realize. I personally would not undertake it for myself even though I took wills and estates in law school and even though I am probably more well versed in how to look up legal requirements than the average person.

I mean I could understand do it yourself legal stuff for things that are trivial. Ones estate is generally not one of them.

Clearly, NOLO is consulting lawyers to create their forms. And since they can amortize them over more sales than a local guy, I'd bet they are higher quality. And a business like that has the resources to find good attorneys, a private person is limited in that regard.

I'd be interested if you could point out specifically why the NOLO forms would not be appropriate for the OP (stated simple case).

And NOLO also covers each state's requirements. Here's the sample will, what's missing that a local practitioner would find important to change?

Link to their sample: https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/sample-will.html

And the NOLO process does include this:

We'll walk you step-by-step through the process of making your own legal will. And if a situation arises in which you may benefit from the advice of a lawyer or other expert, we'll be the first to tell you. If you do decide to get help from an attorney, let Nolo's Lawyer Directory take the guesswork out of finding a great lawyer.

A broad based comment that "this is important, so you need a professional" sounds a lot like the justification for an FA who charges a % of AUM. What specifically can they bring to the party? In my experience, the NOLO will and trust forms are heads and shoulders above what I've seen that people got from local Estate Planning attorneys. And just like the FA questions, how can you know you get a "good one"?

And it isn't exactly DIY, like a person writing from scratch - they are using professionally generated forms.

-ERD50

 

[ShokWaveRider]

Making the Will is the EASY Part. Where do you store it so if the "S#$% hits the Fan" people can get it? I guess the Executer is the answer to that.

 

[ERD50]

... I would advise anyone to check with their State on the Will requirements, especially for signing. Last time I looked at IL, the witnesses could not benefit from the will, so if you get asked to sign a will, you are not going to get anything..

NOLO covers that:

What do I do with my completed will?

You need to sign your will in front of two adults who do not inherit under your will. These people don't need to read the will, but each must sign it as a witness. Store this original document in a safe place, such as a fire-proof box. (Complete signing instructions will print out with your finished will.)

When I had a lawyer do a will, he used boiler plate software and just filled in the blanks for the names, etc.

I can totally agree if you have young children to leave large sums to, then it becomes complex to release the money in age stages. ...

That's not really complex. I've seen very simple direct wording for that in some documents. It's not rocket science or brain surgery. And it looks like it is covered by NOLO (I didn't do a deep dive into it, my children are no longer minors, but it appears to be covered).

-ERD50

 

[Montecfo]

Attorneys also use software/canned verbiage.

I am contemplating the same issue. I would use software. If you want additional peace of mind, hire an attorney to review it

My estate is simple also in terms of heirs/baggage.