Equity/Fixed Income Allocation Change with Age

Hydroman

Recycles dryer sheets
Joined
Apr 18, 2006
Messages
147
How many of you change your equity vs fixed income allocation as you get older? For example the common advice is your percent allocation invested in stock should be no more the 110 minus you age. So if you are age 50 your stock investments would equal 60%. So if I were to follow this rule I would reduce my equity allocation by 1% each year when I rebalence.

Anyone follow this rule by reducing their equity allocation each year?

Is there a way to use FireCalc to determine the affect of reducing the Equtity allocation by 1% each year on overall portfolio survival?
 
Yep - except 110 minus my age says I should be in VG Target 2005 instead of 2015 - I'm an optimist.

And no - I don't think Firecalc does sliding asset mixtures over time. Maybe SG or someone knows a slick way of modeling the effect by taking snapshots of various mixes with different span times or something.

heh heh heh
 
I intuitively reduce equity exposure as I age. Most significantly when I entered withdrawal phase rather than accumulation phase.

In my 40's, I held virtually no fixed income, perhaps 10%. That started to change significantly in my mid-50's when I had pretty well decided to retire at about 57. Currently 60% equity but willing to be as high as 70% equity in event of extraordinary blue chip dividend paying equity buying opportunities.

However, I don't see myself going below 35% equity until my 70's. My mother, for example, is currently about 18% equity at 88 years of age....but in a conservative dividend income mutual fund. I will speculate she will retain all or most of that until the day she dies.
 
Hydroman said:
How many of you change your equity vs fixed income allocation as you get older? For example the common advice is your percent allocation invested in stock should be no more the 110 minus you age. So if you are age 50 your stock investments would equal 60%. So if I were to follow this rule I would reduce my equity allocation by 1% each year when I rebalence.
Anyone follow this rule by reducing their equity allocation each year?
So a retiree should deliberately reduce a portfolio's ability to beat inflation in exchange for lower volatility?

SamBro over at the M* boards is in his 90s with a 100% equity allocation. Ours isn't quite that high, but I see no reason to lower it with age.
 
Nords said:
So a retiree should deliberately reduce a portfolio's ability to beat inflation in exchange for lower volatility?

Possibly yes. The need to beat inflation becomes less of an issue as you get closer to end of life while at the same time you have less time to recover if the stock market takes a major dump.
 
Depends on your circumstances. I have a defined benefit COLA'd pension that covers most of our routine expenses in retirement. Although I will be 60 on my next birthday I have kept my equity allocation at 75%. If I were to treat my pension as if it were an income stream from fixed income investments then my equity allocation would be only 38%. On that basis I see no need to reduce my equity allocation as I age.

Grumpy
 
Mandatory RMD - in 7 yrs - not as bad as it used to be but there none the less. Plus I didn't count my 15% dividend/hobby stocks - they are 'sort of extra'.

Since Uncle Sam wants me to RMD out more than current yield - I'm thinking damp the SD - if I subsequently put some in stocks - or a series of mini Roth conversions - so be it.

Heh heh heh - I'm open to suggestions - I don't want to take it with me - The IRS says I can croak precisely at  age 84.6.
 
unclemick2 said:
Heh heh heh - I'm open to suggestions - I don't want to take it with me - The IRS says I can croak precisely at  age 84.6.

You could put the stocks and other free cash into Wellesley ;)
 
game changes for most of us as we get closer to retirement or do retire...no longer is the game about growing richer,,the game is about not growing poorer....it takes carful balancing to stay ahead of inflation and not loose to much in market downturns.... i find 50/50 to 60/40 using a 3 bucket system works great for me....
 
mathjak107 said:
..it takes carful balancing to stay ahead of inflation and not loose to much in market downturns.... i find 50/50 to 60/40 using a 3 bucket system works great for me....

Are you adjusting those 50/50 to 60/40 allocations as you get older? Do you foresee doing so or is the allocation and bucket system going to remain constant tell you depart this earth?
 
Ed_The_Gypsy said:
However, I like Galeno's approach:
Exactly-- with a few years' cash on hand to ride out a bear market, no one has to worry about downward volatility. No need for bonds, either.

I don't think anyone's worrying about upward volatility...
 
for many years i have found useful the following guidline:  
equity % = 1-(age/100)^2
this has provided a % which has been comfortable for me, might not be comfortable for others.
 
d said:
for many years i have found useful the following guidline:  
equity % = 1-(age/100)^2
this has provided a % which has been comfortable for me, might not be comfortable for others.
You'll have to get back to us the day after your 100th birthday.

What do you do then, start trading options?
 
Nords said:
You'll have to get back to us the day after your 100th birthday.

What do you do then, start trading options?

Venezuelan beaver-cheese futures. On margin.
 
Nords said:
Exactly-- with a few years' cash on hand to ride out a bear market, no one has to worry about downward volatility. No need for bonds, either.

I don't think anyone's worrying about upward volatility...

Unless of course you started drawing from your portfolio in the late 60's Your few years of cash would have probably run out half way through the bear market
 
Using FireCalc the optimum portfolio survival using a 4% SWR seems to be around 60% in equities if you have a 30-40 year horizon. So this idea of have 75-90% in equities until the day you die does not seem reasonable unless your expenses are being covered by a COLAed pension, which seems to be the case for those advocating a lifetime high percentage equity position with no adjustments for age. Those who are covered by strong COLAed pensions probably can afford to make a Vegas play.
 
Hydroman said:
Using FireCalc the optimum portfolio survival using a 4% SWR seems to be around 60% in equities if you have a 30-40 year horizon. So this idea of have 75-90% in equities until the day you die does not seem reasonable unless your expenses are being covered by a COLAed pension, which seems to be the case for those advocating a lifetime high percentage equity position with no adjustments for age. Those who are covered by strong COLAed pensions probably can afford to make a Vegas play.

They could just give away their portfolio and still be covered as to essentials.

Ha
 
brewer12345 said:
Venezuelan beaver-cheese futures.  On margin.
Yeah, I hear Rydex is offering them both inverse and leveraged to 200% with only a 2.4% expense ratio!
 
Ed_The_Gypsy said:
I am still working, so no personal experience yet. However, I like Galeno's approach:

http://early-retirement.org/forums/index.php?topic=107.0

Does anyone know what ever happened to this Galeno guy? Searching history it appears he made that one post and then was never heard from again. By the way looking at his FI mix, he list 2 year CDs maturing in 1 year. Never saw one of those before..he he.
 
So what I have gathered so far is that volatility does not matter much to those on a COLAed pension that covers basic living expenses and so that group does not make any adjustments in their equity/FI ratio based on age. Not sure what those without the benefit of a pension are doing. None have reported in.
 
Hydroman said:
Not sure what those without the benefit of a pension are doing. None have reported in.

Hydro, no pension here. Can't say that I've followed a predetermined equity decrease formula as I've aged, but I did do some dirty market timing in late 1999 and go from roughly a 70/30 mix to something closer to 25/75. Beginning in 2001 I started weighting more toward equities until I was at roughly 50/50 when I retired last year at age 58.

I don't have any immediate plans to tweak my allocation, but that may change when I begin to draw SS...or if there is a significant change in my testosterone level.
 
No pension here, and DH's pension is too small to mention (OK, it's $237...at age 65...with no survivorship...told ya!).

When we worked full time, we had 100% equities in 401ks and rollover IRAs and 25-50% equities in taxable accts. When we semi-retired at age 52, I moved gradually to an overall allocaation of 55% equities. I retired at 55, but DH is still semi-retired at 57. When he fully retires, I plan to gradually go down to 40-50% equities. Gotta sleep at night...and avoid returning to work ;) It depends a little on whether DH works at his current job long enough to qualify for any pension or retiree health insurance--the more pension income, the less need for FI on our part.
 
Hydroman said:
So what I have gathered so far is that volatility does not matter much to those on a COLAed pension that covers basic living expenses and so that group does not make any adjustments in their equity/FI ratio based on age. Not sure what those without the benefit of a pension are doing. None have reported in.
I think everyone should stop polling the audience and work out the math for their own situations.  ER is hard enough, but if people can't do math then ER is impossible.

I'm not sure if "those on a COLAed pension that covers basic living expenses" is a jibe or if I should play it as a straight comment, so I'll play it straight.

The pension and the COLA have nothing to do with volatility.  (If you want a pension with a COLA then go buy a Vanguard inflation-indexed annuity.  Compared to what I paid for mine, Vanguard is a bargain.)  The pension and the COLA also have nothing to do with our personal rate of inflation, although the COLA is indexed to CPI-U.  My pension happens to cover most of my living expenses because I can only surf one longboard at a time, and because our teenager is more interested in hanging out with her posse than she is in blowing our budget on woo-hoo vacations.  Four years from now, when she's out the door to college, I suspect the ol' entertainment budget is gonna experience a double-digit percentage spending increase.  I might even "need" a new longboard by then.

But back to portfolio math.  The effect of downward volatility IS reduced by how many years' expenses are in cash-- a known quantity of money available at a known time.  I believe the only way to achieve that "cash" is through a CD or a money market, or maybe even a bond ladder, but not a bond fund.  If you don't need to sell equities for a few years to provide living expenses, then you don't have to care about volatility.  By the time it's necessary to sell equities for cash then hopefully dividends or a market recovery have carried the portfolio over the bear market and will enable it to recover.  We keep two years' expenses in cash, Frank Armstrong recommends as much as seven, and most people could probably sleep comfortably in between those ends of the bell curve.  Note that Bernstein analyzes stock/bond portfolios but doesn't do the same sort of detailed analysis for stock/cash.

My concern with adjusting the equity/FI ratio with age is that only equities have been proven to beat inflation.  Bonds, FI, & beaver cheese provide the diversification that reduces volatility, but they do not beat inflation.  Raising the "FI" portion of the portfolio with age will eventually begin losing to inflation.  I can't predict when that'll happen but I bet that it'll happen at least two decades before both people of a couple have died.  If my portfolio had followed that equity/FI ratio, I wouldn't feel comfortable knowing that my spous's only protection against inflation was to spend the principal in ever-increasing chunks.  Not even Ty Bernicke's cat food can turn that problem around.

If you can sidestep volatility with a cash stash instead of reducing volatility through diversification, then you don't have to care about volatility.  And if you can stay in a high-equity portfolio, then you'll also continue to beat inflation.

But you have to do whatever makes you sleep at night.  If low volatilty and lower returns with a lifetime of inflation corrosion lets you sleep at night, then sweet dreams...
 
Nords said:
My concern with adjusting the equity/FI ratio with age is that only equities have been proven to beat inflation.  Bonds, FI, & f*zzy b*nny provide the diversification that reduces volatility, but they do not beat inflation

I assume that excludes TIPS and similar new fangled instruments, right? Or are you concerned that they may tank in a high-inflation high-taxes environment?
 
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