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Old 04-14-2011, 01:59 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Texas Proud View Post
I read into both sentences that if you worked at your current pay until you turn 62, when you do turn 62 you can have X as your benefit....

"At your current earnings rate..., if you STOP working and start receiving benefits at age 62, your payment would be about X".

It does not say if you stop working NOW... it says if you stop working at 62.... the 'and' is the key in this sentence... 'stop working and start receiving at age 62'...

I think the revised sentence is more clear.... but as I said, they both say the same thing...
I still say it is imprecise, the "and" isn't clear if it is "this and that", or "this and then that". Both are used in common language, and the context usually gives us the clue. But I don't think we get enough context here, who knows the rules?

For example, if I say "Stop your car and check the oil", that is two separate things to be done in sequence. You stop your car, and THEN you get out and check your oil. You don't check the oil at the same time as you are stopping your car.

So likewise, I can read it as "if you stop working and (and then you...) start receiving benefits at age 62, your payment would be about X".

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Originally Posted by Texas Proud View Post
Here is my major problem with the SS statement.... all benefits are calculated as if you worked until the day you started to receive the benefits.... IOW, your benefits at 70 are as if you worked until 70....

I want to know what my benefits are if I stopped working at 62, but delayed taking my benefits until I was 70... it would be easy to present...

If you worked until you were 62 and started taking benefits at the listed age your benefits would be:

62 X
Normal retirement age Y
70 Z

If you worked until normal retirement age and started taking benefits at the listed age your benefits would be:

Normal retirement age A
70 B

then for 70...
See my notes about a matrix (stop working ages on one axis, start collecting ages on the other axis) - that would give us the info we need.

-ERD50
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Old 04-14-2011, 02:28 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by chinaco View Post
Looks like you got your statement before the big revision occurred.

The new statements going out show the payments going to the govt from the retiree.

Now at 62 you begin paying the govt each month (instead of receiving a check). if you wait till FRA, you pay the full amount and if you wait til 70 you have to pay them about 130% of FRA.


It's part of the new program to reduce the debt... Wellllll, they have to pay off those SS Trust bonds they issued... don't they?!
Good to see we can still laugh here on FIRE.(Well, some of us, anyway..)
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Old 04-14-2011, 04:35 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by ERD50 View Post
I still say it is imprecise, the "and" isn't clear if it is "this and that", or "this and then that". Both are used in common language, and the context usually gives us the clue. But I don't think we get enough context here, who knows the rules?

For example, if I say "Stop your car and check the oil", that is two separate things to be done in sequence. You stop your car, and THEN you get out and check your oil. You don't check the oil at the same time as you are stopping your car.

So likewise, I can read it as "if you stop working and (and then you...) start receiving benefits at age 62, your payment would be about X".



See my notes about a matrix (stop working ages on one axis, start collecting ages on the other axis) - that would give us the info we need.

-ERD50
That is probably why they changed.... the new one is a lot more clear...

You are right... (man I wish I could remember the word I am looking for... it is the breakdown of a sentence... help).... A long time ago I was a trustee on a number of corporate trusts.... one was a particular troublesome document... it restricted the company on what they could do since it had been in BK twice... they wanted to do something that might or might not be allowed.... according to how you read the sentence... we spent over an hour on just ONE sentence with (IIRC) 4 lawyers and me.... on the face of it, it seemed like it was clear as day... until someone else came up with another way to read it....


I agree with your proposal of a cross table... simple and to the point... and easily calculated by SS...
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Old 04-14-2011, 05:41 PM   #24
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(man I wish I could remember the word I am looking for... it is the breakdown of a sentence... help)
Maybe "parse"?
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Old 04-14-2011, 06:09 PM   #25
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I just received my 2011 Social Security Statement, and it seems the language around estimated retirement benefits has changed.

From my previous year's (2009, 2010) statements:

"At your current earnings rate..., if you STOP working and start receiving benefits at age 62, your payment would be about X".

From my latest (2011) statement:

"At your current earnings rate, if you CONTINUE working until age 62, your payment would be about X".

I'm 50, so does this mean I have to work until 62 now to get that estimated amount? Or maybe that's always been the case, I've just been misreading it. BTW, X is roughly the same amount.
You must be in luck. There should be no more statements send out per
Frequently Asked Questions

"In light of the current budget situation, we have suspended the Request a Social Security Statement service."
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Old 04-14-2011, 06:42 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by WallyDug View Post
"At your current earnings rate..., if you STOP working and start receiving benefits at age 62, your payment would be about X".
I agree with Texas Proud and Gumby that there is a parsing problem here. The statement could either be:
At your current earnings rate..., if you ((STOP working) and (start receiving benefits at age 62)), your payment would be about X
or
At your current earnings rate..., if you ((STOP working and start receiving benefits) at age 62), your payment would be about X

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Old 04-15-2011, 10:22 AM   #27
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...(man I wish I could remember the word I am looking for... it is the breakdown of a sentence... help)...
diagramming Fifth grade English, where I went.
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Old 04-15-2011, 10:39 AM   #28
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diagramming Fifth grade English, where I went.
Yeah, and the "penguins" would slap you (with a ruler) if you did it incorrectly ...
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Old 04-15-2011, 10:44 AM   #29
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Maybe "parse"?

Yes... thanks
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Old 04-15-2011, 01:51 PM   #30
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diagramming Fifth grade English, where I went.
Sixth grade, for me. I loved it. Finally, English made sense to me. I loved the logic in sentence construction that sentence diagrams illustrated so clearly.

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Originally Posted by rescueme View Post
Yeah, and the "penguins" would slap you (with a ruler) if you did it incorrectly ...
No nuns at my school, but one of our teachers broke a 12" wooden ruler on one boy's hand in second grade. That takes a lot of muscle! But what an example - - I will never forget it, and was a model student after seeing that happen.
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Old 04-15-2011, 02:51 PM   #31
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Yup, back in the 40's it was different.
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