Fat Fire-ees - are you out there?

[DawgMan]

I hear the term Fat Fire and frankly wonder what defines this? I know I am not the norm, but also know from reading various posts there are Fat Fire brethren out there on this site. While a "relative frugalist" at heart, I have been fortunate to make a nice living and pack away some dough in the process. Applying the same principles as most on this site, I plan for Fat Fire when I retire at the end of 2019. I will be going cold turkey, no DW income, no pensions, no grandma mailbox $$, just me and my investments. Will be 55 next year and hope to have kid 3 & 4 off the payroll. I am debating on keeping my remaining home debt in the low 3% range, but will probably pay it off just because I like the idea of zero debt. My planned RE burn right now is $300K/yr (inc taxes), but that includes a significant amount of discretionary. I also think my early years of RE will have the highest burn rate so most likely, my planned spend rate will not run into perpetuity, despite planning for a static + inflation spend. I am really curious as to how the Fat Fires have experienced their expenses after say 5 - 10 years, especially based on a higher burn rate? Are they still spending at the same level or do they hit a wall and find it's a good bit less.

Come on Fat Fires, I know you are out there!

 

[bingybear]

first I've heard the term Fat Fire.

 

[kevdude]

first I've heard the term Fat Fire.

+1

I thought the thread was going to be about being overweight in ER.

 

[Mmm Rrr]

I was hoping this was the alternate to the thread "Weight Loss".

 

[MRG]

I've seen it on another place. Contrast lean fire with fat fire. You got more bread.

Opposed to these guys they didn't want no bread.

"Lazy you just stay in bed
Lazy you just stay in bed
You don't want no money
You don't want no bread"

https://youtu.be/YXcbHmV004A

 

[FireFool]

All right, I'll call my ER FatFire, but I'm just a bit more than 2 years in. My expenses did indeed go up post retirement. First off vacation expenses went up quite a bit. We've done 2 Europe vacations per year on top of 2-3 domestic air travel vacations per year on top of a number of weekend get-away car trips (the car trips aren't all that different from when we were working though). Our vacations typically are 3-4 weeks long - so higher frequency and longer duration then when we were working. With all the travel for the first time ever for us we hired out plowing service last winter and also for the first time hired out lawn service (even though I never minded/kind of enjoyed doing it myself). My work commute was very short, now having the time to help my DD and SIL on the other side of the city I'm driving a whole lot more, so car related expenses are actually up too. Having time I signed up for classes at the local college and since I'm not yet 60 I'm paying tuition there. We go out to the movies a whole lot more, although we do go on the cheap day matinees, because why pay more if you don't have to. We're now starting on home repairs that were deferred just due to out lack of time when working - those expenses are on the verge of escalating quickly, but ultimately are part of our plans to both enjoy our house over the next few years as well as prepping it for sale for an eventual downsize. I too expect an actual decrease in expenses somewhere down the road, but for now our attitude is to travel and enjoy life to the fullest while we're still youngish and healthy. Oh, and once we reach Medicare age our high expense non-subsidized health insurance (a major increase in our spending) will go away.

 

[ER Eddie]

Could someone please define the term? I don't even know what we're talking about.

 

[Franklin]

What is a Fat FIRE? I have a similar burn rate and know it is high but I am looking for ways to reduce the burn. Ive got the assets to cover it but would like to hear more .

 

[Franklin]

lastly ....go Dawgs!

 

[FireFool]

Could someone please define the term? I don't even know what we're talking about.

There's a whole thread (actually multiple) on the vagaries of what defines FatFire over on Reddit. What I saw best describing how I view the differences was posted in this particular thread (not by me though) - https://www.reddit.com/r/fatFIRE/comments/5m20ri/how_fat_is_fatfire/

"I think there is an easy way to define leanfire/fire/fatfire. Take a look at the yearly income the person is planning. One short hand for Leanfire is <= $40k/yr and fatfire is > $100k/yr. However, where do those numbers come from?

I think the numbers for leanfire/fire/fatfire correspond roughly to income quintiles. Leanfire people are comfortable being in the bottom 40% of income, fire people are comfortable in the next 40%, and fatfire are comfortable in the next, and top, 20% of income. This 40/40/20 split corresponds, in 2016, to the income levels of <=$42k / between $42k and $110k / and >$110k according to us census data."

 

[RobbieB]

I didn't plan anything so dunno. I can tell you I'm blowin more dough retired than when I was working.

With 300 grand a year to blow you should have big fun!

 

[aaronc879]

At first I assumed the OP was talking asking about other overweight early retire people. Now it seems he is talking about rich people. People retiring early with a very large amount of money. What qualifies as 'very large' varies person to person. I say if you are taking 4% and that gives you a six figure sum to spend then that would be a large sum.

 

[W2R]

+1

I thought the thread was going to be about being overweight in ER.

Me too! I was about to post.... "ME!! But I'm working on it."

I don't spend $100K+. I do have enough. Who defines what "enough" is? Me.

 

[Franklin]

thanks I just finished reading the sites referencing fat fire and there is even a morbid FIRE. TMI for me. All i know is my burn rate and investable asset balance. I am FAT but would love to loose some weight! Ive only been off the payroll for 7 months but my biggest surprise was the things I didn't expect (kids needing $). That is another subject well documented on another post.

 

[DawgMan]

There's a whole thread (actually multiple) on the vagaries of what defines FatFire over on Reddit. What I saw best describing how I view the differences was posted in this particular thread (not by me though) - https://www.reddit.com/r/fatFIRE/comments/5m20ri/how_fat_is_fatfire/

"I think there is an easy way to define leanfire/fire/fatfire. Take a look at the yearly income the person is planning. One short hand for Leanfire is <= $40k/yr and fatfire is > $100k/yr. However, where do those numbers come from?

I think the numbers for leanfire/fire/fatfire correspond roughly to income quintiles. Leanfire people are comfortable being in the bottom 40% of income, fire people are comfortable in the next 40%, and fatfire are comfortable in the next, and top, 20% of income. This 40/40/20 split corresponds, in 2016, to the income levels of <=$42k / between $42k and $110k / and >$110k according to us census data."

And I thought I was hanging out with the cool kids?!

I would say the definition above, or perhaps north of $200K/yr is essentially what I have heard as defined as "FatFire". Assuming that for most higher RE spenders that a high % is discretionary, my curiosity was more around after 5 - 10 yrs of "blowing the dough", did your burn rate drop relatively significantly. Like many, I plan on doing the more physical travel/adventurous (more expensive) stuff in the earlier years of RE while my beat up knees can hike up a hill. I would think a combination of these types of activities along with probably some ER "honeymoon" spending will run for 5 - 10 yrs and then perhaps one might fall into a "been there/done that" mood which might reduce their spending a good bit. Barring the unknown future costs of medical issues, help for kids, etc, I was really interested to hear who is sustaining a high spend rate after say 5 - 10 yrs?

For those who are fat in FIRE, eat less and join a gym!

And yes, GO DAWGS!!

 

[Bigdawg]

And I thought I was hanging out with the cool kids?!

I would say the definition above, or perhaps north of $200K/yr is essentially what I have heard as defined as "FatFire". Assuming that for most higher RE spenders that a high % is discretionary, my curiosity was more around after 5 - 10 yrs of "blowing the dough", did your burn rate drop relatively significantly. Like many, I plan on doing the more physical travel/adventurous (more expensive) stuff in the earlier years of RE while my beat up knees can hike up a hill. I would think a combination of these types of activities along with probably some ER "honeymoon" spending will run for 5 - 10 yrs and then perhaps one might fall into a "been there/done that" mood which might reduce their spending a good bit. Barring the unknown future costs of medical issues, help for kids, etc, I was really interested to hear who is sustaining a high spend rate after say 5 - 10 yrs?

For those who are fat in FIRE, eat less and join a gym!

And yes, GO DAWGS!!

Interesting thread Dawgman. Interestingly enough DW and I were talking about this on the way home from dinner last night. She is not oblivious to our finances but I run the fine details. I reiterated to her that we are fine now though we would have to watch things closely. Neither one of us wants to "watch things closely" so we will continue to pad for awhile. She says she wants to work until at least 55 (46 now). I told her she could finish up at 50 and we would be comfortable enough no not have to "watch closely".

Planning on fat fire of $125K/yr. COLA pensions cover $105 so only need nut to cover 20K/yr. Basically there now even without SS reinforce at 62, FRA or 70. My thought on a future FAT FIRE is the ability to not have to watch every dime and basically do what we want, when we want.

 

[Bigdawg]

and BTW I am down 37 pounds since April.

 

[DawgMan]

and BTW I am down 37 pounds since April.

Ahh... one of life's biggest paradox... you can be FatFire, yet not fat in Fire!

 

[JoeWras]

I don't understand much of this, but I know this:


You need Fat Stacks to Fat Fire.


Another board I frequent (sports related) likes to poke a member who brings up the term "Fat Stacks." Hint: think cash, as in multiple pallet loads of it.

 

[corn18]

When I opened the thread, I thought Fat FIRE would mean those that FIREd and had way more than they needed. After reading the thread, maybe it means spending a lot when FIREd. I like the first definition better as you can be Fat FIREd and only spend $40k / year. You could also be skinny FIREd and spending $200k / yr. Makes it more broadly relevant and discussion worthy.

 

[Bigdawg]

Makes it more broadly relevant and discussion worthy.

Discussion worthy? Have you read some of the topics on here?

 

[COcheesehead]

Shouldn’t it be phat?

 

[JoeWras]

When I opened the thread, I thought Fat FIRE would mean those that FIREd and had way more than they needed. After reading the thread, maybe it means spending a lot when FIREd. I like the first definition better as you can be Fat FIREd and only spend $40k / year. You could also be skinny FIREd and spending $200k / yr. Makes it more broadly relevant and discussion worthy.

Problem is most here are working the numbers to be right sized. We have a few $10M+ and $200k per year burn rate members. I like their perspective. Most of us don't fit in that category, however. Maybe the yachting forums fit better for the true fatties, so we don't see much of them?

Shouldn’t it be phat?

No.

 

[timemoveson]

Problem is most here are working the numbers to be right sized. We have a few $10M+ and $200k per year burn rate members. I like their perspective. Most of us don't fit in that category, however. Maybe the yachting forums fit better for the true fatties, so we don't see much of them?


No.

The sub on Reddit focuses on matters of interest to people wanting to create FIRE scenarios where they can spend $100K+ in RE. That is generally what they mean by "FAT" but their definition moves around depending on what they think they want to know. There are many "aspirationals" on there, and a few people who actually have done it.

I'm one of those, with large RE incomes. I find it's the opposite for me, many of the topics discussed on this ER.org forum are less relevant to me but it's great to listen in as I've still learned a lot.

 

[ShokWaveRider]

Hmmmm. I agree it should be "Phat FIRE". Some calculators say we can spend way over $100k, but we actually spend way under. I have to get a new Pacemaker in the next year or so, so maybe after that we will spend a little more. I always err on the side of financial caution, so we could probably spend a lot more comfortably, but really do not need to. We do not travel much anymore as frankly I am fed up of it. I travelled weekly for the last 25 years of W@#k, both domestically and abroad.

We also live in a resort town so lots we have most of the amenities others travel for locally. Yes we do get bored occasionally but the thought of long distance travel post 2016 just makes me cringe. Airlines skimping on everything etc. I cannot bring myself around to paying $10k+ for a pair of First class seats. Heck, I still have 500k + Airline miles left we just keep for emergencies.