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Old 10-12-2012, 11:56 AM   #21
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Can you elaborate?
Are you serious
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Old 10-12-2012, 11:59 AM   #22
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I bet even a single target fund would be better.... with the only decision being which year to pick....

I have steered many new investors to a target fund until they get their feet wet and feel comfortable with doing a bit more AA....
These target funds are really worth a look. I scanned them recently when my DD's boyfriend asked about where to put his 401K money.

Expenses are really low. They don't start changing the AA at all until you get closer to retirement, so they shouldn't throw off too much cap gains from changing AA.

-ERD50
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Old 10-12-2012, 12:00 PM   #23
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Can you elaborate?
Even better, could you give at least one reason why a fund with a 2% load might be good for the client?

Ha
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Old 10-12-2012, 12:20 PM   #24
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Are you serious
You are the one claiming a "kickback", I was looking for an explanation. You are making it sound like the advisor is getting 2% of the client's money every year, clearly not the case..........
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Old 10-12-2012, 12:32 PM   #25
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She is in all cash right now , I suspect he advised her to do that so she could move her money to him
Do you know that to be the case? There's probably more to it than that.......
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Old 10-12-2012, 12:33 PM   #26
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Even better, could you give at least one reason why a fund with a 2% load might be good for the client?
Ha
I don't use mutual funds with clients so I can not think of a good reason........
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Old 10-12-2012, 12:38 PM   #27
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Thanks for all the advice guys. A couple things. It turns out she was given a new financial advisor at fidelity who she did not like. She pursued the old advisor so I don't think it is a conflict of interest. Plus all of the money is in tax deferred accounts so I do not think there are any taxes involved.
Which is perfectly permissable under any FINRA rule.......

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She called the "advisor" and he said he can't sell no load funds so if she wants them she needs to go to vanguard herself.
Sounds like he was telling the truth.

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PS: It did get a little heated for a while. I apparently called the advisor a thief when I was on speaker phone and she was not happy since she likes him. I was unprepared when she called and all I heard was 2 percent load and variable annuity. It was unprofessional of me, I apologized to her for the language, but not the sentiment.
Sounds like you need to be her financial advisor.........
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Old 10-12-2012, 02:54 PM   #28
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You are the one claiming a "kickback", I was looking for an explanation. You are making it sound like the advisor is getting 2% of the client's money every year, clearly not the case..........

Never said 2% per year, so I do not see how I made it look like 'every year'... I just used 'kickback' instead of commission....

But I bet that high ER has a 12b1 fee of between .25 and .50 that the advisor gets part of... every year....
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Old 10-12-2012, 03:30 PM   #29
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Chewy,
You can bet that her "friend" will be calling back soon and often. She's not comfortable doing the analysis of her investments herself, she wants to turn this over to someone she likes and who she trusts. Most folks here probably wouldn't make important decisions like this based on the personality of a total stranger, but I think that's the way she's wired. The quicker you can get her paired up with someone she likes and trusts who can do this for her without a conflict of interest, the better for her (and for you). Her FA "friend" now knows she might slip away and you can bet he'll try to close the deal quickly.
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Old 10-12-2012, 03:51 PM   #30
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Never said 2% per year, so I do not see how I made it look like 'every year'... I just used 'kickback' instead of commission....

But I bet that high ER has a 12b1 fee of between .25 and .50 that the advisor gets part of... every year....
+1
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Old 10-12-2012, 04:13 PM   #31
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I assume the 2% load is a one-time purchase fee that ends up, at least in part, compensating the FA for selecting the fund. Although some loads, or at least short-term trading fees, are distributed to fund shareholders. The first case is close enough to a kickback for me, even though it is entirely legitimate.

I'd be happy to pay a sales load if it allowed me a lower ER that payed for the load over a few years. But, strangely enough, nearly all the load funds where I had that option charged ER's that were higher than their no-load share class. The loads just pay those higher-cost traditional brokers, who hopefully aren't charging an additional 1% of assets on top of that.
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Old 10-13-2012, 04:35 AM   #32
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what i cant believe is how little in the way of leads are passed between the bank and those guys that sell financial products.

we just transfered two 100k plus cd's from sovereign bank to our fidelity account.

you would think someone would have called from the bank to retain us and the lead would have gone to their financial guy to at least contact us.


nope, no one cared , no one even got the lead that a few hundred thousand were going out to a competitive brokerage.

same thing happened with chase last time. its like no one cares .

i dont want to buy anything from them but at least show me you care about large customers leaving and at least give the lead to your financial guy.

i once pulled a big amount out of my fidelity account to purchase a property and fidelity was on the phone the next day making sure we were happy and why were we pulling a few hunderd k out of our account.


seems to me if i was the financial planning guy at sovereign i would want a list of every cd coming due and i would want to especially see those taking cash and moving it somewhere else for investment.

i dont get it, i just dont understand how they can let a customer walk away with money in hand.

the banking part i can see, they can get money from papa fed but you got financial guys that earn a living on selling investments that would want these leads.
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Old 10-13-2012, 01:24 PM   #33
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It just depends on how you define customer.

For larger banks, it is not a consumer but a medium sized business. For community banks, it's consumers and small sized business.

As for financial services - seems to be a convenience the bank keeps around to snag customers who don't have a broker relationship.

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Old 10-13-2012, 05:25 PM   #34
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you would think someone would have called from the bank to retain us and the lead would have gone to their financial guy to at least contact us.
I'd be very upset if my bank passed this kind of info to the "financial services" sharks in their lobby so they could try to sell me overpriced products. If it ever happens you'll hear about it on this board and I hope others here would squawk, too.
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Old 10-13-2012, 05:28 PM   #35
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I'd be very upset if my bank passed this kind of info to the "financial services" sharks in their lobby so they could try to sell me overpriced products. If it ever happens you'll hear about it on this board and I hope others here would squawk, too.
Up here in the Frozen North it's also usually illegal.
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Old 10-14-2012, 07:00 AM   #36
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what i cant believe is how little in the way of leads are passed between the bank and those guys that sell financial products.

we just transfered two 100k plus cd's from sovereign bank to our fidelity account.

you would think someone would have called from the bank to retain us and the lead would have gone to their financial guy to at least contact us.


nope, no one cared , no one even got the lead that a few hundred thousand were going out to a competitive brokerage.

same thing happened with chase last time. its like no one cares .

i dont want to buy anything from them but at least show me you care about large customers leaving and at least give the lead to your financial guy.

i once pulled a big amount out of my fidelity account to purchase a property and fidelity was on the phone the next day making sure we were happy and why were we pulling a few hunderd k out of our account.


seems to me if i was the financial planning guy at sovereign i would want a list of every cd coming due and i would want to especially see those taking cash and moving it somewhere else for investment.

i dont get it, i just dont understand how they can let a customer walk away with money in hand.

the banking part i can see, they can get money from papa fed but you got financial guys that earn a living on selling investments that would want these leads.
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I'd be very upset if my bank passed this kind of info to the "financial services" sharks in their lobby so they could try to sell me overpriced products. If it ever happens you'll hear about it on this board and I hope others here would squawk, too.

+1 on samclem.... I use the bank for a bank..... if I wanted your other services I would ask....


Here is an example of how I got pissed at Chase.... I went to the downtown branch to deposit a check... there was a line, so someone came up to me and said "I can help you with that deposit".... well, it was one of their finance guys that sat across from the tellers... he took me to his desk and pulled up my info... started to talk about 'investing'.... I said 'all I want to do is deposit my check'... WELL, after a few more back and forth, HE took my check over to the tellers for THEM to deposit... it took me longer than if I had waited in line.... I told him some choice words and left... Pissed me off big time... but, did not want to waste my time telling Chase that this could piss off customers.... I do not know if they still do it... as I am now in the burbs.... but I have seen the ones in the local branch eye me a few times when I go in....
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Old 10-14-2012, 07:05 AM   #37
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I'd be very upset if my bank passed this kind of info to the "financial services" sharks in their lobby so they could try to sell me overpriced products. If it ever happens you'll hear about it on this board and I hope others here would squawk, too.
+1
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Old 10-14-2012, 07:22 AM   #38
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I'd be very upset if my bank passed this kind of info to the "financial services" sharks in their lobby so they could try to sell me overpriced products. If it ever happens you'll hear about it on this board and I hope others here would squawk, too.
im not welcoming being bothered but the fact is the banks would be well within their right to furnish our names to other departments in soverign.

the fact that we are already customers makes it not cold calling if you are on the do not call list.

its just the fact that im a salesman myself and all our sales people are taught to look for leads and potential from all our existing customers and to farm out those leads to other departments who can best follow up those leads.

even a quick call from soverign bank to see why we pulled 200k out should have been made if for no other reason.

i dont get it. no place in business would something like this have just gone through without question as to why at least.

the same thing happened last time at chase. no response at all.

like i said im glad they didnt call but i just question why when they already have your money dont they try to retain it.

i can tell you i have been pulling my money out of the david lerner reits as fast as i can and a month doesnt go by without a call to try to retain it or sell us additional products.
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Old 10-14-2012, 07:44 AM   #39
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She likes the planner and she did ok so she wants to keep using him. She called me today from his office.

Here is the problem. He has left fidelity and is working for best as I can tell so far Soverign Bank? She is in all cash right now , I suspect he advised her to do that so she could move her money to him

......She seems to like the planner she has now and I think she really trusts him, though I do not. I also realize this is really not my business but she is asking for my advice, though I think she is leaning towards not taking it.

Mike
You can be friends with your barber/hairdresser, the football coach, the people in the restaurant, the neighbors.... you cannot be friends with someone who handles your money. I think she's confusing "trust" with "friendship" You certainly cannot expect objectivity mixing money and friendship.

I certainly believe in the little "uh oh" that lives in the pit of our stomachs. Maybe I'm totally off base.... here's a male financial planner who just may be.... flirting.... with your unattached unencumbered financially comfortable sister and maybe that's why she likes him so much. Well, you get the picture. I'd certainly address this aspect of the relationship with her if you have the same "uh oh" feeling.
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Old 10-14-2012, 09:03 AM   #40
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im not welcoming being bothered but the fact is the banks would be well within their right to furnish our names to other departments in soverign.
I give the bank my personal info because it is required for us to do business. It is not so they can make pitches to me. If I go to Lowes and buy a posthole digger, I will not welcome calls from the folks in Lowes who sell fencing fabric, concrete, and treated lumber. And if they call me, I probably won't go back to Lowes.

Regarding the bank: The farthest I think they should go is a prompt--at the time you are making a large withdrawal--to see if they can address the reasons that you are moving the funds. A question from the teller, a pop-up screen online, etc. "Your requested action will be accomplished immediately. Before we do--you've had these funds with us a long time and we value your business. XXXX bank is eager to assure we offer the services our customers want, and we have a wide option of industry-leading banking products and other products offered through our Investment Products branch that many of our customers have found useful. Would you like to learn more about these alternatives?" That would still irritate me, but not nearly so much as a call or email.

Assuming the transfer and use of this info is legal, the amazing part to me is that there are still retail banks out there that care enough about their relationships with customers and the reputation of the bank to not use customer info in the manner you suggest.

I'm sure I'd feel differently (about a lot of things) if I were in sales.
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