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Old 05-19-2009, 09:47 AM   #41
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I think it challenges a whole world view, not just personal inadequacies. My sis and I both started out with small nest eggs courtesy of our late father. Over the course of years, after one vagary and another, various investments and our own job savings we both bought houses. She got a mortgage; I paid cash. We have political disagreements (she is right-wing Republican and I am a sort of Democratic libertarian) wherein she defends the banksters and the financial system. I think she defends it because she is attached to it; she has to write that $3k check every month, come rain or come shine. I don't know how she does it! I'd be cranky, too, if that were me.
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Old 05-19-2009, 10:34 AM   #42
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she has to write that $3k check every month, come rain or come shine.
Ouch. That's a real FIRE-buster.

Have I mentioned lately that I love my small, cheap and paid off house?
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Old 05-19-2009, 10:52 AM   #43
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trib1 - ahh, the Irish - a huge expectation of loyalty as well, too. And, I find the Irish, while very funny, can have the most cutting criticism, cuts to the heart, especially with those closest to them. I think they attribute that behavior as one of caring, however, their style can really hurt.
Good luck!
You can say that again. Anyone with an irish side to their family knows that they are a huge source of strength, and a big PITA too. All I can say is thank God that US catholics tend to marry into other RC ethnic groups. If you are in the midwest, irish marry Germans. In Chicago and Cleveland, Poles. In New England there are those spicy Italians available, not to mention Puerto Ricans and other Latinos.

A double dose of the Irish might have been fatal to me.

I know more about saints, booze, "female trouble" and tragic wasted lives than even Eugene O'neill did. Jesus, Mary and Joseph!

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Old 05-19-2009, 11:08 AM   #44
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Saw a BBC documentary once that argued that it was protestants that crafted the notion: that to be a 'worthy' member of society, one had subject themselves to lifelong graft! Before that, the world was largely more laid back (Jamican) in its work ethic, (work to live, versus the live to work).
Since I joined this forum I have been meaning to get around to explaining my screen name. It seems that you have saved me the trouble, and probably been more simple and eloquent about it than I would have been. I do believe that we would be buddies if we knew each other.
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Old 05-19-2009, 02:08 PM   #45
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Family and friends are generally viewed as important sources of support. In your case, they are the exact opposite. Maybe you should move - it is not like you would be losing your support group.
Same here.
I think of myself as a voluntary orphan. My life is much improved since I made the "leave it all behind" decision. It was not easy, but it was the right decision. In my case, envy of my success and being the youngest was the 3 headed monster and the reason for chronic naysaying.
However, my mom never said such terrible things to me. You can't change her, so the best option might be to increase your distance.
If the family is not supportive, go out on your own, and send periodic postcards and letters from a PO Box address so they know you are alive. Other than that, live your life to the fullest minus the anchors dragging at you.
Good luck!
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Old 05-19-2009, 08:10 PM   #46
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Thanks deserat. Its not cast in stone. I may end up working again-- absolutely, and in that sense ER/PT is a lot like entrepreneurship! Hell, people have lost their entire businesses over less in their control.
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Old 05-19-2009, 08:38 PM   #47
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To anyone I haven't thanked personally yet, Thanks for taking the time with your comments!
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Old 05-19-2009, 08:57 PM   #48
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Trib1, at your age with 40 years to make that nest egg support yourself, and presuming you invest it in a well-allocated portfolio to overcome inflation, you're talking a $15K-$20K annual withdrawal rate. Can you pay your mortgage or rent with that, let alone everything else? (Or do you own your home free and clear?)

Maybe that's what your relatives are worried about, that you'll run out of money and they'll need to "bail" you out someday. If your numbers add up, I'd emphasize to them you've done your budgeting and calculations and there's no need for them to worry. Also leave open the chance you'd be ready to return to work if needed, or that you plan to spend much of your time researching new business ideas and plan to grab a good opportunity as soon as you find it.

Or maybe formally announce your retirement and even have a retirement party, as opposed to everyone just sort of finding out you're not working anymore. At your age I think there can be a fine line between proud early retiree and lazy bum, depending how you portray yourself.
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Old 05-19-2009, 11:18 PM   #49
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Its definitely less about the financials. The criticisms are more to do with, perception, and expectation.

I don't think they're worried about me being a burden, in fact in that department, ironically, they might actually be very helpful. Not that I ever would impose. Maybe because I'm too proud, so I'd definitely return to work first.
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Old 05-21-2009, 12:03 PM   #50
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When I first FIREd, my parents protested a bit, but once I was a year or two into it they got much more supportive. My retiring into a more frugal lifestyle than when I was working suddenly impacted my parents: it became clear that I wasn't going to financially support their living above their means in retirement, whereas when I was working and accumulating a pot of money, I think they might have had their eyes on it as their retirement fun money.

A few years into my retirement, things are much better. I no longer worry about my parents spending, and I no longer project the vibe of worrying about them. I no longer feel any conflict about retiring or saving my parents from their overspending. The decision has been made; I'm retiring rather than saving them from their overspending, and everyone now knows it. My parents seem to feel free to again overspend in their usual ways, and who knows perhaps they have some financial silver bullet that I don't know about that is going to make it okay. At any rate, it's no longer anything I worry about.

Because I'm not giving my parents the "I don't think your finances are going to work out" vibe, they have reciprocated and are now being supportive of my financial decisions.
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Old 05-21-2009, 12:19 PM   #51
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When I first FIREd, my parents protested a bit, but once I was a year or two into it they got much more supportive. My retiring into a more frugal lifestyle than when I was working suddenly impacted my parents: it became clear that I wasn't going to financially support their living above their means in retirement, whereas when I was working and accumulating a pot of money, I think they might have had their eyes on it as their retirement fun money.

A few years into my retirement, things are much better. I no longer worry about my parents spending, and I no longer project the vibe of worrying about them. I no longer feel any conflict about retiring or saving my parents from their overspending. The decision has been made; I'm retiring rather than saving them from their overspending, and everyone now knows it. My parents seem to feel free to again overspend in their usual ways, and who knows perhaps they have some financial silver bullet that I don't know about that is going to make it okay. At any rate, it's no longer anything I worry about.

Because I'm not giving my parents the "I don't think your finances are going to work out" vibe, they have reciprocated and are now being supportive of my financial decisions.
Very insightful post. Most of us as adult children are sensitive to our parents approval or disapproval. It takes a while to figure out that our parents are also sensitive to our approval or disapproval. Somewhere along the way something flips and parents become aware that they can be judged as well as judging their children. That is a good time to try to get completely off the judgment train.

I have found that if I will have de facto responsibility for someone coming up short, it can be hard for me to stand by and watch what are very likely to be foolish moves. So I sould get to be an annoying presence.

That is one reason it can be easier to be single.

I learned a bit about old age when I lived in a small town. Being old and alone can be fine, if you are in an environment that can give some social support, and if you like yourself and your life. I knew some old bachelors and widowers who lived in cabins along the river. They spent their days doing things not far different than what their ancestors might have done 1000 years ago. Looked pretty good to me. Nothing quite like a fat fish pulled right out of the river and into your skillet to make the day look promising.

BTW, I recently saw Clint Eastwood's Gran Torino. An excellent movie with this as one of its themes.

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Old 05-22-2009, 06:19 AM   #52
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I don't think they're worried about me being a burden, in fact in that department, ironically, they might actually be very helpful. Not that I ever would impose. Maybe because I'm too proud, so I'd definitely return to work first.

Wow! You'd actually work to support yourself in lieu of mooching off the family....... What a guy!
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Old 05-22-2009, 06:29 AM   #53
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We heard a little bit of that from a couple of DW's relatives, but then we don't have their monthly payments either....

One BIL is now nearly 62, wants desperately to retire but can't because for years he's always been the one to show how generous he is by picking up the tab at a restaurant, is first to order the appetizer, has the McMansion on the two-acre lot, and is still paying credit card interest charges and car payments.

LBYM does have its benefits....
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Old 05-22-2009, 11:03 AM   #54
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glad | got my wild oats out working most of my life overseas. Retirement can be boring which may cause it to be expensive. Read thaivisa.com plenty of $1k to 2K a monthretirees on the site, should be some info in regards to being a slave to money in your 50's and 60's. 700K with a place paid for would be more fun for a 50ish person.

I wouldn't even trust myself under your circumstances at your age and was there with more. I have mostly enjoyed work no matter how stressful it can be.Guess I am just to scared of living poor and trying to go back to work in my 60's.

I would rather die working than have every thought of every day being about what I can and cannot afford to do and where to do it. Learn to enjoy building the golden egg than spending it, laughing all the way to the bank is enjoyable. Old saying goes don't worry about spending money that is easy, worry about getting enough to spend for what you want as need is not adjustable by much. Single a couple times and raised children on my own for many years too!
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Old 05-22-2009, 04:37 PM   #55
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Coming under nasty criticism from family (mother mainly, she's now a widow), and some close friends too. This is despite planning this now for 15 years. Has anyone else encountered this, and if so, can I ask how did you deal with it?

i'm talking about bitter criticism, the likes that really shakes your confidence in your own plans, as they seemingly-- 'will you to fail'. .so they can be proved right, perhaps?

EXAMPLES:-
You're lazy! ER / PT is really just an excuse for being lazy! Everybody else works, so why can't you. . you're lazy, that's why!

You're useless. . no good (loser) (because you don't have a McMansion, and a wife, and 4 kids, like everyone else in the family / golf club!).

Your plans are laughable! That's nowhere near enough money to FIRE! You're kidding yourself, you're not in the real world! (of course, net worth & swf & LBYM, aren't something they understand, they live in fear. . no amount of money, is enough to re on, for them!).
Thoughts appreciated. Thanks!
First off I am truely sorry that you do not have a supportive family. I do not either... and I know the amount of pain that can cause.

The reality is.... no matter how old or how successfull we become as adults, we still want praise and adulation from our folks. And when we cannot get it, it drives us crazy.

It has taken me years to come to the understanding that my folks are really not nice people. I have had to emotionally diconnect from them just to preserve my own well being. They have this nasty habit of sucking the very life out of me when I speak to them. You should not allow this to happen to you. It is not healthy or neccessary.

Believing in yourself is very important. In my opinion the only way that you gain self confidence is by planning, implimenting, and in general, doing things yourself whenever possible. Always remember this.... this is your life... it is the only one you are going to get. It belongs to YOU... and only you! Anyone else that would try to deny you your personal happiness in what you really want to do with your 80+ years to live, is just not really worth your time. As for people in your family that are being so negative to you... ask yourself this question. Are they happy with how their lives have turned out? If not... why would you want to follow their advice, and turn into what they are?
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Old 05-22-2009, 07:30 PM   #56
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On a side note, I have some written works. Its a total long shot if these will ever be sold, but Ireland is tax free for writers, but of course that could easily be revoked meantime! . .
Hmmm, you have just given me an idea. I've always wanted to write a book. Maybe I'll move back to Ireland after ER and write it there. I mean, it doesn't have to be a bestseller, does it?
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Old 05-22-2009, 07:32 PM   #57
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$500k or thereabouts is the bare minimum and it does make some assumptions, such as Ireland, or UK and Europe, continuing free healthcare. It also means topping up with some private coverage for certain things (to avoid long waiting lists).

I had wanted $1M, but cyclical downturns do sting! I know its risky, but my gut tells me do it now before I get too set in my ways, maybe get sick, or cannot travel, for some reason.
Are you mad, or what?
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Old 05-22-2009, 11:42 PM   #58
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Are you mad, or what?
I plan to push hard with the writing regardless. Marketing old works / writing new ones. But since I can't guarantee selling anything, I am effectively retired!

I'm sorry you think I'm crazy. But this far, I've never really taken any real risks, I've always played it safe. What can I do? . . My gut says time to take a risk. For you maybe its kamikaze, but I've done as much planning as I can, and I've thought about this for many years. others have fIre'd on less, the evidence is in the posts on this board!!
I am fully prepared to get work, if in my 50's it doesn't work out. I've done a lot of different things, and I've done them well. I think at the very least I could get work as a teacher etc.
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Old 05-22-2009, 11:45 PM   #59
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I made sure most of my friends are absolute sycophants to me.

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[...] I have no idea whether you have a hunded thousand or a hundred million. [...]
Is it possible to retire on a hundred? (He asked, hopefully.)
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Old 05-23-2009, 12:06 AM   #60
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. . Retirement can be boring which may cause it to be expensive. . .
I wouldn't even trust myself under your circumstances at your age and was there with more. I have mostly enjoyed work no matter how stressful it can be. . .
I would rather die working than have every thought of every day being about what I can and cannot afford to do and where to do it.
I wish I could think more like you, I think life would be simpler! I've been poor at times, especially when I was writing music. But as long as you're doing something you love, you don't notice living LBYM so much IMHO.

Its helpful having friends around, that have themselves been living on even less, for many years.

I think if you have a need to write, act, draw, perform etc, then you're never quite going to be satisfied until you exhaust all your options.
I believe in what I'm writing about, or beginning to. Its not for everyone but neither is Paulo Coelho. I find it hard contemplating continuing to work in an office environment when I need to scratch this itch.
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