Fisher Investments?

[travelover]

The amazing part is that they manage something like $20 billion! Think about the fees he is collecting adding little to no value.

Oh sure, but does Vanguard send you a birthday card?

 

[HighRoller]

I get "stuff" from them in the mail about 3 or 4 times a year. I don't even open them anymore, just like all the credit card offers.

 

[sheehs1]

The amazing part is that they manage something like $20 billion! Think about the fees he is collecting adding little to no value.

Probably difficult to verify this number.
Wonder how much of it is his, his family, his extended family, the people that work for him, their families...etc.

 

[Bestwifeever]

I noticed an ad for Fisher Investments here this morning. I closed it down because I didn't want to see it, and found a much more useful ad - a coupon code that I used to get 10% off a cat condo. It has 3 perches, an enclosed house, and 2 sisal scratching posts.

I think it's the first time I have ever consciously taken advantage of a banner ad, and I'm pleased as punch. There might be a lesson for would-be advertisers here - E-R.org member ignores investment ad and buys a cat condo instead

My kitties thank E-R.org in advance for their new play-home!

Awesome! And with a coupon!

 

[foxfirev5]

This group and Bogeheads would be the last people I would expect to use his services. Boring, simple, and cheap - er I mean low cost. It's worked so far. The mailings I've received over the years serve as reminder that somebody is paying for this stuff. Just so it's not me.

 

[SumDay]

We visited with a local rep and he was really impressed with himself. I thought they were very expensive. Plus, he kept wanting to put us into oil futures. I have blocked his number.

 

[Animorph]

They're a brand name. They charge brand name prices. Buy generic.

 

[rayvt]

Wow, lots of wrong, uninformed and angry comments here. Diatribes on the father, without even knowing who his father really was.
And Fisher is not a "wrap account", it's individual stocks. And the fee is not 1.5%. And the bit about being aggressive marketeers and continuing to mail stuff has no bearing on their value as an investment manager.

Once you cross out all the replies which have the above things, all that is left is the comments that DIY'ers and Bogelheads are not Fisher's prime audience.

I've had an account at Fisher for a few years, and it's done what I expected. It's an actively-managed fund that invests worldwide. Somewhat similar to Fidelity Contrafund, with only a slightly higher fee.

If you want to do straight passive index investing, then neither Fisher nor Fidelity Contra is for you. There is nothing wrong or "bad" about either of them -- they just invest with a different methodology than you want.

I have a minority of my money with Fisher and with Fidelity Contra. I invest the bulk of my money myself.
Why do I have some of my money with Fisher? To diversify investment methods, for the same reason you diversify asset classes.

 

[tightasadrum]

I agree. I met with one of their local VP's yesterday out of curiosity to see how they operated. Here are the main points: 1. ). Minimum investment is $500K. 2) they invest in individual stocks and bonds primarily with some ETF exposure for sector balancing. 3) they use a large research team to identify investment choices. 4) each investor who signs on works with a phone contact person and another person in face-to-face meetings. 5) They have quarterly reports on your portfolio much like a FIDO PAS. 6) each investor has the option to opt out of any investment choice they want out of. 7) since they invest worldwide, they benchmark to the MSCI World Index. 8) the fee is 1.25% of first million if the money is all within one tax group, ie Rollover IRA, taxable account, ROTH account. You can combine accounts, but the fee goes up to 1.5% of first million. The high rollers out there get a slight reduction over $1M. These rates are on equities. Income investment starts at 0.75%. 9) you stay with your own brokerage account and pay the sales charge on 60 or so stock purchases, so that is an additional charge going in and going out of about $1000 per year or more I'd guess.

I found the gentleman cordial and he didn't pressure me on anything. He has obviously been an investment advisor for quite awhile. He is the only person I have ever dealt with in the investment business who also has personal experience in real estate investments. He handled every question well I hurled at him. They also host regular meetings in each major area where they explain current strategy and you're able to meet other Fisher investors.

One thing he pointed out was that the mutual fund charges that FIDO, Vanguard etc charge on their actively managed funds can exceed their 1.25% fee, particularly if it is a PAS managed account. I would be curious if anyone who has any experience using Fisher can comment on accuracy of the stated fees. Of course, self-managing your investments in stocks and index funds will still be less expensive, but you're still competing with the professionals for portfolio growth.

So if you're busy like me, or have other things to do with your time other than managing stocks, bonds and mutual funds, Fisher is a different option. I haven't hired them, but I intend to study the material he left with me.

 

[REWahoo]

Sounds like he did a good job of convincing you to come aboard.

This doesn't sound accurate. Have you verified?

One thing he pointed out was that the mutual fund charges that FIDO, Vanguard etc charge on their actively managed funds can exceed their 1.25% fee, particularly if it is a PAS managed account.

 

[tightasadrum]

No, I haven't checked it yet, but I plan to sample a few of the PAS mutual fund selections that FIDO uses to verify it. I'll let you know. But the FIDO PAS account does charge .95% up to a certain level, maybe $1MM, when it is reduced a little. Plus, when they buy actively managed mutual funds, particularly international funds, the E.R. added on can exceed 0.7%. He claimed many of the popular funds used by FIDO also carry the onerous -12B also, which can add an additional 0.25%. I doubt this, but I intend to check it out. What I don't know is whether FIDO gets a discounted rate. I've been told that they do, but...?

And no, I haven't decided anything yet. Of course he was ready for me to sign up, but I make it a habit NOT to move on anything without more research. Been there, done that, didn't work out so well in the past. So now I do the work first. He gave me Fisher's market predictions since about 1990. Most were in the ballpark. The most glaring exception was 2008. His prediction was, "2008 is more likely to be a robust market than a bust one. We're too gloomy", January 2008. Bet he'd like to have that one back. Most of the others were fairly accurate. I found it interesting that they would put all of his predictions, good and bad, right there in the introduction folder though.

 

[REWahoo]

I don't think Vanguard offers a PAS account. Looks like what he says is true of FIDO:

Net annual advisory fee : Between 0.25% and 1.7% of your eligible assets invested

 

[Nords]

One thing he pointed out was that the mutual fund charges that FIDO, Vanguard etc charge on their actively managed funds can exceed their 1.25% fee, particularly if it is a PAS managed account.
So if you're busy like me, or have other things to do with your time other than managing stocks, bonds and mutual funds, Fisher is a different option. I haven't hired them, but I intend to study the material he left with me.

Rick Ferri's firm will do the portfolio management for 0.25%... and he posts to Bogleheads for free.

 

[tightasadrum]

i'll have to check him out too.

 

[Animorph]

Sounds like kind of an expensive balanced mutual fund with no track record you can pin down.

 

[ERD50]

I don't think Vanguard offers a PAS account. Looks like what he says is true of FIDO:

Net annual advisory fee : Between 0.25% and 1.7% of your eligible assets invested

But why would anyone who posts here (and reads!) really need a Portfolio Advisory Service®?

Investment strategy -
Your long-term asset allocation and the mutual funds which make up your portfolio comprise your investment strategy. Over time, your investments will be actively monitored and adjusted with the goal of taking advantage of upside market activity while seeking to minimize downside risk.

Sounds like kind of an expensive balanced mutual fund with no track record you can pin down.

Right - do we have any evidence that they outperform a simple index AA B&H, after fees?

-ERD50

 

[FinanceDude]

DFA smokes FIsher Investments for returns.

 

[rayvt]

But why would anyone who posts here (and reads!) really need a Portfolio Advisory Service®?
...
Right - do we have any evidence that they outperform a simple index AA B&H, after fees?

-ERD50

Two reasons come quickly to mind:
1) Diversification of strategies. Clever as we all think we are, it's quite possible that we'll screw up. Having somebody else manage part (stress: part) of your money in a completely different way protects against that.
2) At some point in time, it's possible that you won't be able to manage your investments. Could be as slow as onset of memory loss & energy. Could be as silent as Alzheimer's -- we always thought Mom was okay until one day she couldn't balance her checkbook.
Could be as fast & unforseen as a drunk driver running a red-light.

Y'know, it irks me every quarter when I write the check to Fisher. But I still do it -- for the same reason I keep fire insurance on the house.

 

[Sarah in SC]

Simple truth...any company that stalks people in the way that Fisher does is automatically suspicious. If they are so great, why are they calling you 5x a week like they did my Dad? Or mailing reams of paper. In active management of portfolios, the names of the best ones are hard to find, because they don't solicit for business.

 

[ERD50]

Two reasons come quickly to mind:
1) Diversification of strategies. Clever as we all think we are, it's quite possible that we'll screw up. Having somebody else manage part (stress: part) of your money in a completely different way protects against that.
2) At some point in time, it's possible that you won't be able to manage your investments. Could be as slow as onset of memory loss & energy. Could be as silent as Alzheimer's -- we always thought Mom was okay until one day she couldn't balance her checkbook.
Could be as fast & unforseen as a drunk driver running a red-light.

Y'know, it irks me every quarter when I write the check to Fisher. But I still do it -- for the same reason I keep fire insurance on the house.

#1 - it is incredibly easy to be very diversified with a few index funds. It might actually be more difficult to determine if any 'adviser' has you properly diversified. We can 'trust' the adviser, but I like 'trust, but verify'. If I can verify, I can DIY.

#2 - OK, but I think this can be done for much less (fewer?) $.

-ERD50

 

[Nords]

Y'know, it irks me every quarter when I write the check to Fisher. But I still do it -- for the same reason I keep fire insurance on the house.

If your house burns down, your fire insurance company will help you get a new one.

If your portfolio burns down, what will Fisher do?

I think your portfolio-advisor metaphor is more appropriate as a vampire squid wrapped around your face...

 

[rayvt]

There's a time & place for hating "financial advisors", but that time & place isn't "all the time & everywhere." Y'all might occasionally look up "hubris" in the dictionary and ask yourself if you are falling prone to it. Bogleheads, too, should do this.

Mull over the concept of diverifying among strategies as well as among asset classes.

If I can verify, I can DIY.

We had a neighbor who was doing very well --- until the day that he was driving to work and got hit by an uninsured non-documented hit-and-run driver. He was in a coma for 2 weeks and when he came out of the hospital he was unable to perform his (professionsl, white-collar) job. Kinda hard to DIY when your brain doesn't work.

Risk management, Risk management, Risk management, is the name of the game. Lower your risk by having somebody else managing part of your money. BTW, I also have part of my money in Fidelity ContraFund (FCNTX).

As far as the Fisher performance, last year I computed that data for my account (including fees & dividends):
Oct'06 thru Mar'11
FCNTX +23%
Fisher +10%
SPY +5%

Jan'09 thru Mar'11
FCNTX +81%
Fisher +105%
SPY +87%

Oct'06 thru Jan'09
FCNTX -33%
Fisher -46%
SPY -44%

 

[samclem]

Mull over the concept of diverifying among strategies as well as among asset classes.

We had a neighbor who was doing very well --- until the day that he was driving to work and got hit by an uninsured non-documented hit-and-run driver. He was in a coma for 2 weeks and when he came out of the hospital he was unable to perform his (professionsl, white-collar) job. Kinda hard to DIY when your brain doesn't work.

That's what my "Read this if I'm dead" letter to DW is for. And if we're both dead, then there's a will. I don't see how having Fisher or anyone else managing a sub-portion of my portfolio helps in a meaningful way. And I am sure that letting them run everything and thereby reducing my effective available annual spending money by 25%-35% is darn costly insurance.
Regarding diversification of strategies: Wouldn't this mean I'd have to assess and deliberately diverge from whatever strategy Fisher is using? If we both decide, independently, to go heavy into beaver cheese futures I'm not sure my portfolio will have much diversification.

 

[Sarah in SC]

There's a time & place for hating "financial advisors", but that time & place isn't "all the time & everywhere." Y'all might occasionally look up "hubris" in the dictionary and ask yourself if you are falling prone to it. Bogleheads, too, should do this.

Um, I won't deny the occasional attack of hubris, but I'm pretty darn sure I'm not in the "hater club for financial advisors".

Glad you are happy with them, but I'll stick with Nords' vampire squid description for describing Fisher. If I get hit by a bus, I think well enough of my spouse to be able to manage without me, though I doubt he'll ever really "get" how to load the dishwasher without my constant supervision.

 

[REWahoo]

There's a time & place for hating "financial advisors", but that time & place isn't "all the time & everywhere." Y'all might occasionally look up "hubris" in the dictionary and ask yourself if you are falling prone to it. Bogleheads, too, should do this.

Oh please.

I see little evidence here than anyone here "hates" financial advisors. What I do see is a belief that a FA is usually an unnecessary expense standing between us and FIRE.

For those who lack the confidence, skill or willpower for DIY investing, a financial advisor can be a perfect solution - provided you can find one that truly has your best interest at heart. Fisher Investments heavy marketing practices don't give me the indication they fit in that category.