Friends and family can’t relate

[Dtail]

There are truly some folks totally tied up with work and get most of their satisfaction this way, so okay.
However, IMO there is a deep rooted jealousy among many who react negatively.

 

[ugeauxgirl]

This was the first warning that getting ahead of the game was going to irk some people.

We didn't send out trumpeteers ahead of us saying: "Hear ye, hear ye, Mr. and Mrs. JoeWras have burned their mortgage!" No. But sometimes people would ask: "What is your mortgage rate?"

Awkward. "Uh, we don't have a mortgage..."

And then it begins... "How is that possible? Did you get an inheritance? Trust fund?" Blah, blah, blah.

I did this one too- accidentally. I forget to be evasive. DH told me not to tell people that we didn't have a mortgage. And I didn't mean to, but when a friend asked me how much the flood insurance was on our house, I told her we didn't have any. She looked at me funny. "You have to have flood insurance if you have a mortgage." she said, and I blurted out that we didn't have one of those either. Crickets...

 

[audreyh1]

It sounds as if he was hoping to get the job that you got. Maybe they were even counting on it.

Their reaction was immature, but I've seen worse - I had a guy at work literally blow up at me, on finding out I'd been selected for a job he wanted. Called me an "affirmative action pick" because I was a woman (it also amounted to a dig at the selection official, who happened to be African American). This was almost 30 years ago, so he was able to get away with his little tantrum.

Oh I had this happen to me near college graduation, when I was immediately offered a job after my interview at a small local company which I accepted.

The guy (who had also interviewed) went on and on about affirmative action pick, completely ignoring that they had administered their home made engineering skills test (set of problems to solve) that I apparently did way better than the other candidates. I had a pretty high GPA too. His resentment of me was so bitter that he ragged on me several times. Was glad to see the last of him - only ran into him a couple of times after graduation. I wonder how long he carried that huge chip on his shoulder.

 

[kcowan]

In my early career at megacorp, I moved a lot. First place made 10% on the house in 3 years, second made 45% in 2.5 years and had a great sales year making 200% of base earnings. So rolled it all into the third place. Soon after settling in, I heard rumours that I must have had a big inheritance from parents/in-laws.

Upon investigation, it turned out that the house we bought cost more than the branch manager's. Next move sold it for 4x what we paid. Got lucky with both RE and the job.

But the moral was that people just make up stuff to explain how you make out better than they do. And from this thread, that is fine. They do not deserve the truth!

 

[braumeister]

my story would begin "Starting when I was eight years old . . ." People don't want to hear that. They want the magic formula that will make it happen now - starting in their 50s.

The best response to that is like the old line about planting trees.

The absolute best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago.
The second best time is now.

Sure they didn't start as soon as they could have, but there is probably a lot they could do starting now that would make a big difference.

 

[UnrealizedPotential]

My experience has been that some people don't want to do anything that takes years. They want something quick and easy to gain FI. Sorry, I don't know a quick, legal way of gaining FI. As soon as they figure out, that the road is hard, they become discouraged.


I knew a guy that told me two years ago if I ever come across a stock to make him rich , let him know. Lol. For one thing , I am a terrible stock picker, for another, I have tried talking to him about how to better his situation, but he just doesn't seem to want to hear it.

 

[Souschef]

We have an interesting situation. All of our parents are gone, so there is no problem there. DW and I each have 2 sons. Every year I have been sending each of them part of my RMD. I told my sons they are getting part of my RMD, but told DW's sons that all 4 are getting it. It is sort of noise avoidance,
Funny thing recently, when I was talking to one of my sons and he thought I bought my DW her new car. I told him no, she bought it with her savings and we have no car payments. I also told this son that I did not inherit anything from my parents, and like him did it all myself..

 

[samclem]

Sorry, I don't know a quick, legal way of gaining FI. As soon as they figure out, that the road is hard, they become discouraged.

If they think of it in terms of "taking years," I could understand why they might get discouraged. But it really takes about two days. If I added up all the time it takes over 30 years to set up and manage a simple portfolio to get a person to retirement, it would total about 48 hours--two days. Sure, it is two days spread over a long time, but the point is that it's not like 30 years in a cool mine.
If the person can set up a generous, automatic deduction from their pay to their investments, forget about that money, increase the deductions when they get a raise ("half for now, half for later"), LEAVE IT ALONE, and rebalance once per year (or don't even do that with a that date fund), they will be okay. But it is not a common practice.

 

[UnrealizedPotential]

I agree Sam Clem with your thoughts. However, my experience is is that is not how some people think. It might be easy to set up and maintain to get there, but the end result is , FI is not happening anytime soon. They know they will have to spend less, some don't want to do that either, and it will take years to see the results they are looking for.


I think they lack patience. They want to fast forward to the end result. Spending less is a horrible thought for some people. They don't want to hear it. Combine that with years of patience, well, I think some people just are not going to do it. They don't want to.


Spending less IMO, is where the hard part comes in, not to mention the years of patience in waiting for a workable number of assets to retire with. It's not easy. I think that's how some look at it.

 

[AS2019]

I have tried talking to him about how to better his situation, but he just doesn't seem to want to hear it.

I have a slight variation on this. My company hired John 4 years ago. He is a valuable and talented employee, but he had to take a pay cut from $90,000/yr to $80,000/yr when he joined our company (he didn't have much choice as his old company went out of business). My company also contributes $15,000/yr to his retirement fund for which he was fully vested on day 1. (These are round numbers, may not be exact). The offer included yearly raises over 2 years to a final salary of $90,000 - exactly what he was making at the previous company. He also gets a yearly bonus based upon company performance, about $15,000.

So in the end, he's making $90,000 salary, $15,000 bonus, $15,000 retirement.

He complains bitterly about how his salary is the same now as it was 4 years ago when we hired him. Explaining to him that his total yearly income is $30,000 higher is futile. He understands the math, but he still doesn't care.

I finally realized that he's just one of those people that spends every penny he has. The retirement money doesn't mean anything to him because it's not available right now. The bonus doesn't matter because it is blown within days of receiving it and doesn't help with the monthly car payment, mortgage, phone bill, etc.

Saving and LBYM is just entirely inconceivable to some people.

 

[scrabbler1]

In a broader sense, a key to FIRE IMHO is being able to withstand peer and societal pressure and don't do things everyone else seems to be doing. This means LBYM and saving and investing for your future. But it may also mean not doing the so-called "life script" such as not overspending or buying lots of stuff or, in an extreme move, not having children.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

In a broader sense, a key to FIRE IMHO is being able to withstand peer and societal pressure and don't do things everyone else seems to be doing. This means LBYM and saving and investing for your future. But it may also mean not doing the so-called "life script" such as not overspending or buying lots of stuff or, in an extreme move, not having children.

It comes up a lot of the various retirement forums that there tend to an overabundance of INTJ types. I find being INTJ to be a real money saver, at least for us, because we buy things we need and enjoy but we don't spend money on status items with no utilitarian purpose.

 

[Rianne]

Saving is like dieting. IMHO it comes down to a psychological way of ignoring excess and focusing on getting by on less.

Marketing is the culprit. As we are tempted into eating things bad for us, the commercials are relentless, the sight of juicy burgers or a rack of ribs, the sound of a coke getting poured into a glass of ice, a famous actor drinking premium liquor. it is marketing and we are subliminally drawn to brands, foods, cars, homes.

Lifestyle and spending, the big house, car vacation and Facebook adds to that. We're drawn to big pretty expensive lives of the rich and famous. Granted not everyone buys into this, especially on this forum but I see it all the time. The bigger problem is easy credit to buy all these things.

 

[happy2bretired]

Saving is like dieting. IMHO it comes down to a psychological way of ignoring excess and focusing on getting by on less.

Marketing is the culprit. As we are tempted into eating things bad for us, the commercials are relentless, the sight of juicy burgers or a rack of ribs, the sound of a coke getting poured into a glass of ice, a famous actor drinking premium liquor. it is marketing and we are subliminally drawn to brands, foods, cars, homes.

Lifestyle and spending, the big house, car vacation and Facebook adds to that. We're drawn to big pretty expensive lives of the rich and famous. Granted not everyone buys into this, especially on this forum but I see it all the time. The bigger problem is easy credit to buy all these things.

I’ll add HGTV to that also.

 

[gretah]

You found us. You can discuss it here all you want.

Yes. This is why I love message boards.

I'm temporarily living in a small town and will move to a city - hopefully next year. It's hard here to find intellectual conversations - people just prefer to talk about sports, church, and family members, esp grandchildren.

So I read books and listen to NPR and podcasts as I decline invitations to family picnics and senior center lunches.

Message boards are great for conversations until I get to the next city, join volunteer groups, and make friends.

Thank you, E-R members!

 

[Carpediem]

Lifestyle and spending, the big house, car vacation and Facebook adds to that. We're drawn to big pretty expensive lives of the rich and famous.

I like to blame it on Robbie B. Even my DW says "blow that dough" now that I've told her about Robbie.

 

[kcowan]

But Robbie B has admitted that the dough he blows is not principal. I think it will take marriage to get him serious about blowing it!

 

[gerntz]

Yes. This is why I love message boards.

I'm temporarily living in a small town and will move to a city - hopefully next year. It's hard here to find intellectual conversations - people just prefer to talk about sports, church, and family members, esp grandchildren.

So I read books and listen to NPR and podcasts as I decline invitations to family picnics and senior center lunches.

Message boards are great for conversations until I get to the next city, join volunteer groups, and make friends.

Thank you, E-R members!

JMO. but I'd think you're more at risk of being drawn into overspending the bigger the town/city you move to.

 

[JoeWras]

If they think of it in terms of "taking years," I could understand why they might get discouraged. But it really takes about two days. If I added up all the time it takes over 30 years to set up and manage a simple portfolio to get a person to retirement, it would total about 48 hours--two days. Sure, it is two days spread over a long time, but the point is that it's not like 30 years in a cool mine.

I agree Sam Clem with your thoughts. However, my experience is is that is not how some people think. It might be easy to set up and maintain to get there, but the end result is , FI is not happening anytime soon.

Worst yet. You read or hear frequently how people start this process, do it for a year or two, but then just had to take out money from their 401k.

Not only are they not saving, they are paying a penalty!

 

[RobbieB]

Nah, I've blown some principal too. Sold some equities. Spent down a large load of cash from Pop's life insurance too. But yeah pretty close. I was making dough for the first 3 years of retirement because I wasn't spending it fast enough. Net worth should decline a bit this year, but I've really been blowing it on the home improvements and I've got probably another 40 grand to go.

I'm looking to put a good size dent in the net worth this year -

 

[Walt34]

If the person can set up a generous, automatic deduction from their pay to their investments, forget about that money, increase the deductions when they get a raise ("half for now, half for later"), LEAVE IT ALONE, and rebalance once per year (or don't even do that with a that date fund), they will be okay. But it is not a common practice.

The part I bolded is what I think so many people simply cannot do. My ex was one of those, and an ex-BIL was one too. They simply can't stand to see a dollar in the bank, and to do or buy anything the question was not where to get the money, or was it worth buying, but "How can I make this happen today?" Of course car salesmen and banks love these guys, they're the ones with the 7-year car loans for life.

I don't know how my ex is doing, but the ex-BIL was an otherwise smart guy, retired from the FAA as a GS-15 with a two-year college degree but died with only about $800 in savings and making payments on two vehicles used only by him. And left a huge financial mess for his son to clean up.

 

[braumeister]

I had a good friend in the Air Force who was a B-52 pilot. He was always a little nervous about the fact that something could happen to take him off flight status at any time (pilots are subject to very rigorous physical standards). So while he was still in pilot training he made a vow to never touch his flight pay. Every month it went straight into a separate bank account. I thought that was a wonderful practice and I think I have to give him the credit for starting me off on the LBYM method way back then.

 

[HI Bill]

My wife came to America from overseas and paid cash for a condo. Very shortly after that, we started dating. We've told a few people that it's her condo, not mine, and that she paid cash for it. Since she's not working now, they're very baffled. Before moving here, she had a good-paying technical job, and managed to save more than the purchase price of the condo, without tracking or realizing it. She always LBYM, wore clothes her friends gave her, carried Louis Vitton and Gucci purses her friends gave her, never bought fancy jewelry, but she still enjoyed life and did a lot of travel before meeting me!

 

[trumpeting_angel]

DD is a saver, but mentioned recently that she thinks it’s odd that so many her age are interested in retiring young. Of course, she just finished grad school and is eager to w*rk and learn in her field. She and her DH each have stable jobs, own a house, and just had a baby.

I think she just learned the value of her savings habit, though. Their beloved dog needed surgery, her DH needs surgery, and the baby’s birth had some unexpected complications that cut into their parental leave. Ouch! All are doing well, and the retired and semi-retired grandparents are stepping in to help. But the savings were necessary to keep from going into debt.

I expect they will continue to be good savers, and I will encourage it. They are careful, sensible spenders, LBYMs, and thank goodness.

 

[RenoJay]

A few years ago I was pretty guilty of evangelizing, mostly because I truly believed any adult could get themselves onto a successful course. Soon I realized I was wrong; adults don’t listen or want to be “taught” and that I needed to shut up and instead started teaching Jr. Acheivement (financial literacy) to school kids. Ironically, recently numerous adults (my cohorts are hitting mid 40’s) have very specifically sought me out to have finance / investing convos. I guess I had to just shut up and wait for them to want to hear the message.