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Old 08-28-2011, 06:26 PM   #21
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The biggest problem some men/ladies would have in using the silver fox strategy:
They need to develop a personality that attracts a partner of independent means permanently.
This reminds me of a lengthy and very direct discussion my trust attorney had with me after I was widowed...a woman "in my position" must beware the gold-diggers.
He had several female clients who got taken to the cleaners by an unscrupulous "gentleman caller". He made sure all my assets were recorded, transferred and tightly locked into the Trust. I retain direct and complete control over my assets.
Bring on the roses and champagne...
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Old 08-28-2011, 09:33 PM   #22
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My biggest financial nightmare is that some day I'll get a call from one of our sisters saying "Our brother has a disease that will be fatal if he doesn't have the $200,000 operation that the government won't pay for. Do we pay up, or let him die?"
Thousands of people die all over the world every day from that problem, and presumably at least one of them is more valuable to the world's human capital than our siblings. Yet we not only wouldn't pay $200K for their surgery and wouldn't work 3-4 years longer to pay for it-- we don't even care who they are or what they could have accomplished after surviving it.

The difference is that (1) they're our sibling, and (2) society makes us somehow feel guilty for not "helping" family.

All of our lengthy healthcare discussions on this board start out supremely logical and based on sound financial analysis. But in the end it comes down to "Fine-- now you can test this system with your kid or your elderly grandmother. Let us know how it works out."

I'm afraid I don't have a solution for this question either. I suspect it's because it's not a logic problem but rather an emotional trap. My first approximation of an answer would be "Fine, let's each of us deposit our share into an escrow account until we reach $200K"...
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Old 08-28-2011, 10:55 PM   #23
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The difference is that (1) they're our sibling, and (2) society makes us somehow feel guilty for not "helping" family.
It's more biological than social or psychological. Organisms are evolved to preserve their genetic lines.
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Old 08-28-2011, 11:15 PM   #24
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The second is also interesting in that so far it is working! An acquaintance had nothing approaching retirement except for his SS checks. However, he is a great conversationalist, has a warm personality, and is a 'silver fox'.
When I think of a 'silver fox', I think of a man like you just described. In addition to this, I think of a 'yes' man.

That would drive me bonkers. If I ever find myself single, they can just move on down the line. I ain't interested.
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Old 08-29-2011, 02:18 AM   #25
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When the silver fox loses their health with the sugar mama or sugar daddy still want them?

The fox might be fun when he can dance and take care of a few chores to earn his keep but when he isn't so fun and requires care I don't want to be the nurse with a purse.
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Old 08-29-2011, 05:39 AM   #26
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I would imagine there are a great many unusual retirement plans. This is one I always have to shake my head when I read about it:

The Gentlemen Host Program - volunteer dance hosts for cruise lines
I knew a self employed man in his mid 40s who did this for a month about 15 years ago. Our paths crossed a few times a year on the dance floor. Didn't take me long to notice both how good he was and that he was usually with the prettiest woman in the room.

I joined a conversation where he was telling about his recent cruise ship experience. Someone asked if he'd hooked up with any of the passengers. 'Absolutely not.' was his answer. If the company even suspects a hired dancer is spending private time with a customer, he gets booted off the ship at the next port. Someone who knew him well asked in mock horror if that meant he went an entire month without a, um, uh ... date. 'Hell no.' he replied. The anti-fraternization rules apply to all the crew so they socialize within that small community. After they get sick of each other the new crew members arrive as if they had targets painted on them for the first 2 days.
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Old 08-29-2011, 06:45 AM   #27
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I know about a family who believed that their widowed father had fallen for a silver fox lady and that he financed their high life with his retirement savings and funds. His pre - retirement job had provided quite a high lifestyle for the family members.
They did not treat the lady too nice, even though they were frequently invited and received several gifts from the couple.
What a surprise it was when the father passed away: It turned out that he was the silver fox, had spent his savings long ago and was completely dependent on the lady's (significant) wealth.
She never mentioned anything during his lifetime to save his face.
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Old 08-29-2011, 10:32 AM   #28
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It's more biological than social or psychological. Organisms are evolved to preserve their genetic lines.

Hmmm... would an adoptive child be more likely to want to help their adoptive family who raise an cared for them or their natural family they have never met?

The old Nature vs Nurture question....
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Old 08-29-2011, 10:55 AM   #29
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Hmmm... would an adoptive child be more likely to want to help their adoptive family who raise an cared for them or their natural family they have never met?

The old Nature vs Nurture question....
Adoptive. Adoption in the animal world even sometimes happens between species. You can fool mother nature.
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Old 08-29-2011, 11:57 AM   #30
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Adoptive. Adoption in the animal world even sometimes happens between species. You can fool mother nature.
Comforting to have a definitive, unhedged anwer on this.
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Old 08-29-2011, 12:08 PM   #31
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My biggest financial nightmare is that some day I'll get a call from one of our sisters saying "Our brother has a disease that will be fatal if he doesn't have the $200,000 operation that the government won't pay for. Do we pay up, or let him die?"
The problem with paying up is then being on the hook when the operation goes bad and ends up costing $1,000,000 for complications.
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Old 08-29-2011, 12:11 PM   #32
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The difference is that (1) they're our sibling, and (2) society makes us somehow feel guilty for not "helping" family.
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It's more biological than social or psychological. Organisms are evolved to preserve their genetic lines.
There may be some biology involved but there is also a great deal of social influence, it is different around the world, so it is cultural as well.
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Old 08-29-2011, 03:02 PM   #33
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I know about a family who believed that their widowed father had fallen for a silver fox lady and that he financed their high life with his retirement savings and funds. His pre - retirement job had provided quite a high lifestyle for the family members.
They did not treat the lady too nice, even though they were frequently invited and received several gifts from the couple.
What a surprise it was when the father passed away: It turned out that he was the silver fox, had spent his savings long ago and was completely dependent on the lady's (significant) wealth.
She never mentioned anything during his lifetime to save his face.
I hope she mentioned something to his jerk kids after the gentleman passed and it was no longer for her to save his face, but from what you wrote it sounds like she was a class act, so perhaps she didn't.
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Old 08-29-2011, 06:23 PM   #34
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The worst "plan" I've heard of is the one I hear way too often: "I'm never going to be able to retire." Unfortunately, retirement will likely be forced upon these folks. Employees get downsized, people lose their health, or just can't get a job that pays enough in their senior years. Then what?

I'm always agast when I hear someone say this and so never reply, just remain silent. It horrifies me.
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Old 08-29-2011, 06:45 PM   #35
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The worst "plan" I've heard of is the one I hear way too often: "I'm never going to be able to retire." Unfortunately, retirement will likely be forced upon these folks. Employees get downsized, people lose their health, or just can't get a job that pays enough in their senior years. Then what?

I'm always agast when I hear someone say this and so never reply, just remain silent. It horrifies me.
Me too...

I guess it's a joke when I hear people say, "The day I retire is the day they wheel me out of my office with a toe tag." They laugh...hmmm, I'm glad they think it's funny. I sure don't.
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Old 08-30-2011, 07:22 AM   #36
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Oof!! Yet another example of why counting on an inheritance is not a good practice, generally speaking. Had he not counted on that inheritance, he would have saved some of that money and he would have his own retirement nestegg.
I have seen counting on an inheritanceat fall thru to many times and sadly a number of people who do get an inheritance seem to have no financial responsibility.
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Old 08-30-2011, 10:31 AM   #37
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I've got a buddy who said one day that they were going to probably dig him up for him to clock in, he's so far away from being able to retire. I just stood there slack-jawed when he said it, because he was pretty close to serious.

And I've seen that inheritance plan go awry as well. Waiting for it on a couple of other folks we know, who just don't see the dangers of expecting to spend someone else's money.
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Old 08-30-2011, 10:42 AM   #38
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I found my sugar-momma and her daughter some 15 years ago. Now we're ER this week and daughter is 25 & doing really great with her sugar-daddy.
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Old 08-30-2011, 10:45 AM   #39
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I've got a buddy who said one day that they were going to probably dig him up for him to clock in, he's so far away from being able to retire. I just stood there slack-jawed when he said it, because he was pretty close to serious.

And I've seen that inheritance plan go awry as well. Waiting for it on a couple of other folks we know, who just don't see the dangers of expecting to spend someone else's money.
Thanks for using "slack-jawed" in your post...haven't heard that in a month of Sundays when I was knee-high to a grasshopper going to momma-an-nems house!
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Old 08-30-2011, 10:52 AM   #40
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But when you went to momma-an-nems, did anyone ask you if you'djeetyet?
If you were hungry, you'd say yes'm.
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