Heading under 10,000 on the way!

70% of the trading is done by computers that are programmed to trade on technical analysis...

It's like a damn casino, not investing...

Having fun sitting around naked and shorting:ROFLMAO:

I have no idea where the markets going...

I just closed my shorts though... Too nice outside to sit around day trading;)


Is shorting due to shrinkage :confused:
 
HP reported earnings yesterday. Sales up, profits up. Raised guidance. Same story as Intel a little while ago. Buy, buy, buy...
IBM said they will double their earnings by 2012...S&P current trading at a PE
of 20x current earnings, if projected earnings are correct, and we are still
at 20, then S&P will be 1250, if PE 15, then it will be more like 900+.
I suspect we'll be somewhere in between, pretty much right we're are.
TJ
 
1611_c.gif


Stock prices and earnings do not always follow expectations.
 
So, the market suffered from temporary insanity. Or perhaps not. What else was going then? The Vietnam war? All the anti-war demonstrations then, which affected the psyche of the nation?
 
I think the Arab oil embargo had a little influence on the market back then.
 
Implicit in both the above responses is that there could not be other events that combined with economic circumstances might once again cause a divergence between earnings and prices.

When the diveregence is in the other direction do we attempt to explain it away?

I believe that sh*t happens is the best explanation, and the sh*t is almost always different from whatever it was the last time around.

Ambiguity and uncertainty is just hard to accept, but rejecting it does not make it go away. :)

Ha
 
So, the market suffered from temporary insanity. Or perhaps not. What else was going then? The Vietnam war? All the anti-war demonstrations then, which affected the psyche of the nation?

Unlike now, when everything is rosy and the wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.. :flowers:
 
I went to a subdivision wide garage sale, where the majority of homes are fairly new McMansions. It makes my head spin to see so much new stuff, some in original wrapping, for sale for pennies on the dollar. :nonono:

That said, I got some [-]new[/-] used stuffed toys for my dog. :LOL:
 
Last edited:
I went to a subdivision wide garage sale, where the majority of homes are fairly new McMansions. It makes my head spin to see so much new stuff, some in original wrapping, for sale for pennies on the dollar. :nonono:

That said, I got some [-]new[/-] used stuffed toys for my dog. :LOL:
Yep - experience like that will really help you stop buying your own "stuff" that never really gets used.

In clearing out our stuff we had lots of Xmas gifts that we basically never used. This lead to Xmas Gift Reform with our respective families where we suggested consumables like wine, chocolate or gift certificates to our favorite stores. We had a great excuse that we didn't have room for anything in our motorhome - so don't even try.

Since then, one family has really stopped with the gifts (well MIL passing also caused it) and the other has got totally for the egift approach.

Yay!

Audrey
 
Implicit in both the above responses is that there could not be other events that combined with economic circumstances might once again cause a divergence between earnings and prices.

When the diveregence is in the other direction do we attempt to explain it away?

I believe that sh*t happens is the best explanation, and the sh*t is almost always different from whatever it was the last time around.

Ambiguity and uncertainty is just hard to accept, but rejecting it does not make it go away. :)

Ha

+1
 
So, the market suffered from temporary insanity. Or perhaps not. What else was going then? The Vietnam war? All the anti-war demonstrations then, which affected the psyche of the nation?

Inflation was going on then. 9.4% in 1973 and 11.8% in 1974 versus less than 4% in the prior two years. Some of the earnings increase was simple inflation. And future earnings expectations were being discounted by higher inflation expectations . . . thus, lower multiples on higher earnings.
 
Implicit in both the above responses is that there could not be other events that combined with economic circumstances might once again cause a divergence between earnings and prices.

When the diveregence is in the other direction do we attempt to explain it away?

I believe that sh*t happens is the best explanation, and the sh*t is almost always different from whatever it was the last time around.

Ambiguity and uncertainty is just hard to accept, but rejecting it does not make it go away. :)

Ha
I actually agree with you, that sh*t happens. Nearly in all cases, we can explain after the fact why something happened. And in many cases, we can even tell contemporaneously that something is wrong. However, there are many forces at play, and we never know beforehand what factors will dominate. That is usually what people disagree about.

And then, even as we agree that something is bad, such as the recent housing bubble, very few could predict how severe the outcome would turn out to be. We had housing bubbles in the past, but only a few knew the potential damaging effect of all those CDOs and CDS's. Maybe those of you in the financial world knew, but I certainly didn't.
 
So, the market suffered from temporary insanity. Or perhaps not. What else was going then?
The markets suffer from temporary insanity 75% of the time! Interspersed with brief periods of sanity then insanity again in a totally new direction.

Audrey
 
And then, even as we agree that something is bad, such as the recent housing bubble, very few could predict how severe the outcome would turn out to be. We had housing bubbles in the past, but only a few knew the potential damaging effect of all those CDOs and CDS's. Maybe those of you in the financial world knew, but I certainly didn't.
Most of us didn't realize how extremely leveraged these big financial companies had become. It's the leverage that usually turns a burst bubble into a full-blown financial crisis. There are good reasons why rules limiting leverage are instituted from time to time. Unfortunately, they keep getting lifted when people get complacent and then greedy for that extra "push".

Audrey
 
Most of us didn't realize how extremely leveraged these big financial companies had become. It's the leverage that usually turns a burst bubble into a full-blown financial crisis...
Hence, the public furor over the bailing out of these institutional investors. But we have been over this soo many times here in this forum.

Back to the present, I am down a tad more than 10%, so officially in a correction, which matches the Dow and S&P500. I am not 100% invested, but holding high-beta stocks got its risks (and rewards too :whistle:).

Just yesterday, my wife called out to me from her PC: "Look at this cheap airfare to Copenhagen". Good thing I told her to forget that, as we already planned to travel by RV this year. A trip of more than 10,000 mi and at 10mpg, it is not cheap! Gas is also more expensive in Canada. Hope we do not have to bring along several cases of Ramen to eat on the trip, the way the market is headed. :LOL:
 
Most of us didn't realize how extremely leveraged these big financial companies had become. It's the leverage that usually turns a burst bubble into a full-blown financial crisis. There are good reasons why rules limiting leverage are instituted from time to time. Unfortunately, they keep getting lifted when people get complacent and then greedy for that extra "push".

Audrey

Most of the leverage wasn't a secret (well, except for some of the SIV stuff). The reasons they were allowed to lever themselves that much is that they were supposed to be using the securitization process to shed most of their lending risk. Only they didn't do that.

I also don't think the housing bubble was much of a surprise to anyone who was breathing in 2006. What surprised me was how exposed our financial system was to the crash. I figured most of the losses would be born by mutual funds, pension funds, hedge funds, etc. I thought our banks were insulating themselves . . . silly me.

As far as lessons learned go, I'm going to assume that any future bubble will have a major downside. There was a lot of collateral damage in the tech bubble too . . . another bubble that wasn't hard to spot. Of course you never know when they will pop, but there was pretty blatant silliness going on in the last two bubbles. Maybe when we see this stuff happening the next time, it might be wise to move to the sidelines even if it takes a couple of years to all come undone.
 
This guy lays it out pretty good...

Free-market forces hound politicians David Callaway - MarketWatch

The one world progressives are working hard on the plan for "The new world order"...

Foil Hattery:confused:

I donno I used to dismiss all that, but the more TSHTF the better their case looks...

Scary thing is the fan is running on low speed and it can still be turned way up...

At least gas might be cheaper in a month or so maybe for a while:rolleyes:
 
I didn't write this. Im not very good at typing...

I do agree with this guy though, I couldn't have said it better...




Far-Fetched, But This Is A War of Bulls and Bears… Economics of Countries and Debts and The Decay of Mans Choices…

THE HEADLINES COULD BE READING:

IS THIS THE DAWN OF THE GREAT DEPRESSION II

The World is Asking So Many Questions that has brought about a market on the abyss of true change for the better and/or could be far worse. This could be the signal of the Double-Dip Recession or we may sneak out of all this with just a few bumps and empty bank accounts.

It will remain a question for many trying to make sense of when does this new word “Austerity” start to affect me and my families if I am still employed or a public worker as a fireman or law enforcement that are seen in Greece being the first affected by Austerity measures.

I think the Egg management fee has well exceeded its limits. Its much too much now and Oil is the the theme as it will continue going lower due to the deflationary fears.

The theme for the dollar and the other currencies along with the hedge of the precious metals of GOLD will be a play of making still a stronger dollar emerge due to U.S. holding a lions share of the Gold Reserves. China along with some of the very few players that can hold a bluff at the worlds poker table is no longer able to trump as it once had the leverage before. They will need to be able to keep Yen equal to or near pegged to the Dollar and allow the slow or ease to the EUR and buoy to the EUR and not allow for the YUAN to over heat to over run any of the other currencies to cause their already delicate economic recovery teeters to a full declining recession due to real estate bubble debt collapse.

The idea becomes plausible to hold this as the current theme for the moment that China may equalize dollar and peg yen to Dollar maintain YUAN…

Oil will be balanced to lower $45-$55 range being the most likely as the path of least resistance you might see. Why comes from most likely the concerns from oil nations and the Arab Economy as agreed to behind closed doors.

Why is this really all being done, it is clearly to divert a double-dip recession or that of another depression that would be greater than the one so long ago.

Reading so many journalist throughout the day, one stuck out and came to the top,. He has a way with words and has made his way and tells it like it is. As Todd Harrison had said, “That last dynamic is perhaps the most daunting. Between the bear market in China, uncertainty in Europe, stateside budget gaps, upward taxation, and austerity measures, it would appear as if we’re on a collision course with an inevitable destination. To that end, I will draw from three of my past columns with hopes of providing some context”. And he also had another good comment that stuck in my head when he wrote;

“He is Deflation. Painful, all-consuming, watershed Deflation. While the mainstream media continues to monitor inflationary pressures — and yes, this exists in some corners of the economy — this particular Phantom won’t discriminate between victims. The weakness we’ve seen is the probability of this demon being priced into the collective mindset.”

To be sure, after that column posted and following an additional 15% haircut for commodity prices, asset classes across the board enjoyed a spirited sprint higher. We know now that was the “blow off” phase of the rally, the “panic” portion of the denial-migration-panic continuum that defines all market moves, and we know what happened next.

In February 2008, we offered that policymakers were navigating Our Wishbone World in a manner that would further crush the middle class. And I quote:

“Let’s look at both sides of the great debate. To the left is the socialization of markets, nationalization by governments, and a road to hyperinflation. To the right, we have asset class deflation, risk aversion, and the unwinding of the debt bubble.

If the Northern Rock nationalization is the first in series of similar steps, we could conceivably see the stateside assumption of mortgage debt by the US government. This would hit the dollar and spike equities, at least until interest rates rose to levels deemed attractive as an alternative investment.

That is the hyperinflation scenario, one that is presumably preferred by the powers that be as an alternative to watershed deflation. The “haves” would fare better than the “have not’s,” which would include the former middle class that suffers as a result of moral hazard as the costs of goods and services skyrocket.

The other scenario is the draining of liquidity from the system, which would ignite the fuse for a higher greenback as currency becomes scarcer. Asset classes across the board, from commodities to equities, would deflate and impact the top tier of our societal structure that is tied to the marketplace.

This is, quite obviously, problematic for many policy makers and the constituencies that bankroll them. Deflation in a fractional reserve banking system means that they have, for all intents and purposes, lost control of the economy. It is an admission of defeat, albeit one that may be unavoidable” (Harrison, Minyanville 2010, 19).

I will still continue the theme that we all need to get the idea that we have gotten off track with our spending habits. The way we look at our friends and our neighbors. How we have pushed the creator out of our daily lives, if you have a religion or faith of belief in the creator of “I am” also know as “GOD” for those that did not know those connected names as he is also known by others.

To end this article post, you really need to bring this to focus on what made it all happen. This is all about moral, ethical, and morales with the loss of virtues that continue to erode our nation and many other nations around our world. This is the time to stand up and make a change individually first, then within your family, to invite back a calmness of knowing a creator that can be part of your daily life and bring yourself and the ones you love to live within their means.

It is that simple, it starts first from there; and it goes forward. I call it as certainly a few before me have, “paying it forward”, mentality. A paying forward of helping your neighbor as this builds a village to a nation to a global world of sustainable growth as I think we all seek. As far as investing and winning in the stock market, just try to take risk and make it a smaller portion of what is considered a manageable risk. What is a manageable risk. Great question? Risk is when you feel you are no longer afraid that anything can ever be taken away from you and the house always wins. Its the end of the story in the Bible if its a book you have ever read. The bet has already been set and the hedge is set.

WE ALREADY KNOW THE WINNER… Best way I know of explaining of being on the side of risk when it comes to the ultimate side of risk. Eternal risks.

Far-fetched, Not Anymore…

Peace for now I am out of here…

James G.
 
I do agree with this guy though, I couldn't have said it better...

The syntax makes me think Sarah Palin wrote this (and the call to God at the end, too).

I'd comment on the substance but I don't have a clue what he (or she ;)) is saying.
 
The syntax makes me think Sarah Palin wrote this (and the call to God at the end, too).

I'd comment on the substance but I don't have a clue what he (or she ;)) is saying.

:crazy: I agree..not clue what he's on about..
 
What surprised me was how exposed our financial system was to the crash. I figured most of the losses would be born by mutual funds, pension funds, hedge funds, etc. I thought our banks were insulating themselves . . . silly me.
Yep - that seems to be the general key. If exposure had been limited, things wouldn't have gotten nearly so scary.

Clearly the ability of these large financial institutions to limit their own risk is nonexistent. The quick buck/bonus/fee trumps long-term prudence every time.*

I think at one time nearing the bubble peak, one institution was begging the feds/regulators - "Can't you stop this?" because they felt forced to engage in the same extremely risky behavior as their competitors.

So "we know this is risky, we know the outcome could be catastrophic, but our competition is doing it so we have to"....

Audrey

* Ultimately this is why limits are put in place such as 10% down for buying stocks on margin and the Glass-Steagall Act - because without some sensible constraints, ultimately many of the players will be pushing the envelope and courting disaster. It would be OK if the disaster only resulted in self-destruction and was thus contained, but it usually results in hurting a lot of other people too and spiraling out of control.
 
The syntax makes me think Sarah Palin wrote this (and the call to God at the end, too).

I'd comment on the substance but I don't have a clue what he (or she ;)) is saying.

The substance is stating that governments of the world are at a crossroads of chosing between hyperinflation or deflation. Either assume all bad debts which will need to be hyperinflated to offset them or let them implode and all commodities will go down in value dragging the economy with it. The whole God thing is a cover for saying that individuals cannot long foist their responsibilities onto government forever and the growth of government in the lives of citizens has defereed individuals of personal responsibility till now where the responsibliities are too great for even governments to hold.

Myself I think it is a shortage of money and an inability to maintain the means of growth by continuing to expand government for the last 100 years which is being recognized. I don't know how long the government can continue a system relying on having mortgage rates it's citizens can borrow for 30 years cheaper than most governments of the world, despite record levels of defaults.
 
Back
Top Bottom