Housing Crisis? Maybe the problem is how few communities in America are attractive.

[Midpack]

Maybe Detroit is one of the most obvious role jobs play, among other factors. Population down 60%, declining property values (other than Grosse Pointe?), high unemployment & crime. Though some stories suggest they've begun climbing their way back?

 

[ggbutcher]

I didn't think much about our ties to the car until we spent two years living on Kwajalein, a 2x.5 mile island in the western Pacific. No personal cars, bicycle was the ride du jour. When we came back to Colorado, it was back to the 1hr commute and automotive transportation gymnastics for every errand. Through totally fortuitous circumstances we now have a 1-mile living radius, including work, almost walkable.


What I'm noticing with my megacorp peers is a desire to cut the commute and in some cases buy back 2-3 hours of their day by taking a position 'in the provinces', so to speak, and get away from the metropolis. To them, walkability is a pipe dream...

 

[Chuckanut]

Their is lots of good affordable housing with reasonable commutes in flyover country.

 

[Danmar]

Walkability can be very nice. When I was working we lived within about 500 yards of my office which was in downtown Toronto. Still have the condo and use it as a pied-a-terre for occasional visits. Nice contrast to our other homes but certainly wouldn't want to live there in retirement.

 

[brewer12345]

Walkability can be very nice. When I was working we lived within about 500 yards of my office which was in downtown Toronto. Still have the condo and use it as a pied-a-terre for occasional visits. Nice contrast to our other homes but certainly wouldn't want to live there in retirement.

Danmar, WADR, the vast majority of homeowners and potential homeowners can maybe swing one home and have to make a lot of compromises about it. Your earnings level is/was exceptional. The rest of us plebes usually get to pick one or two of three things we all want: convenient location, nice/large home, and good schools/low crime.

 

[NW-Bound]

...The rest of us plebes usually get to pick one or two of three things we all want: convenient location, nice/large home, and good schools/low crime.

As often said, my housing of last resort would be a small RV parked on state land in NM. Lemme see how that would score.

Convenient? Yes, close to hiking and the outdoors, yet costs only a few dollars a day. Nice? Yes, my RV even has AC and bathroom. Large? Yes, it's larger than a van. [-]School?[/-] Low crime? There's nobody around. Score on all points.

 

[Danmar]

Danmar, WADR, the vast majority of homeowners and potential homeowners can maybe swing one home and have to make a lot of compromises about it. Your earnings level is/was exceptional. The rest of us plebes usually get to pick one or two of three things we all want: convenient location, nice/large home, and good schools/low crime.

Yes, I know how lucky I am. Thought I could add something. If you think my posts offend, I will cease and desist. What does WADR mean?

 

[Calico]

Yes, I know how lucky I am. Thought I could add something. If you think my posts offend, I will cease and desist. What does WADR mean?

WADR = With All Due Respect

 

[brewer12345]

Yes, I know how lucky I am. Thought I could add something. If you think my posts offend, I will cease and desist. What does WADR mean?

No, of course they do not offend. WADR = With All Due Respect. Was not being passive aggressive, I really meant no disrespect.

I am curious about something, since you bring multiple dwellings up: how do you maintain all 3? One of the showstoppers for me in being tempted to acquire a rural cabin is that I simply cannot imagine having the time to deal with more than one house to maintain.

 

[brewer12345]

As often said, my housing of last resort would be a small RV parked on state land in NM. Lemme see how that would score.

Convenient? Yes, close to hiking and the outdoors, yet costs only a few dollars a day. Nice? Yes, my RV even has AC and bathroom. Large? Yes, it's larger than a van. [-]School?[/-] Low crime? There's nobody around. Score on all points.

Plus you could very easily set up a meth lab...

 

[AllDone]

In the US we also have a strong cultural preference for single family homes, which, obviously, don't lend themselves to walkable density. It's a shame, really, because for a lot of people the yard around the house is just one more chore and not even such a great buffer from the inconsiderate neighbor.

 

[JoeWras]

I've lived both.

I prefer the suburbs.

The endless concrete becomes unbearable after a while. Parks are a refuge, but are seemingly always taken up by organized teams. As a Chicago boy, we went to the parks as much as possible, but were still getting kicked out by baseball leagues in the day, and softball in the evening. I hated not having a creek to play in and find frogs.

As an adult, the 6 or 8 inches of wall was no barrier to roaches, bedbugs, parties, rough sex sounds, etc. My suburban yard is.

The key to the yard is learning low maintenance. Here people are planting grass that needs cutting maybe every 4 weeks, or in many cases, just groundcover. The grass yards are usually for people with kids. The groundcover versions or for the rest of us.

Can I walk to a store? Yes. It takes 30 minutes. It is a long walk. It is good for me. It is not 5 minutes like Chicago. Oh well.

 

[NW-Bound]

Plus you could very easily set up a meth lab...

That appears to be a plus for those so inclined. However, if you want to stay in state campgrounds with water and electricity to ease the summer heat, you'd better watch out for the nosy rangers.

 

[Mulligan]

I've lived both.



I prefer the suburbs.



The endless concrete becomes unbearable after a while. Parks are a refuge, but are seemingly always taken up by organized teams. As a Chicago boy, we went to the parks as much as possible, but were still getting kicked out by baseball leagues in the day, and softball in the evening. I hated not having a creek to play in and find frogs.



As an adult, the 6 or 8 inches of wall was no barrier to roaches, bedbugs, parties, rough sex sounds, etc. My suburban yard is.



The key to the yard is learning low maintenance. Here people are planting grass that needs cutting maybe every 4 weeks, or in many cases, just groundcover. The grass yards are usually for people with kids. The groundcover versions or for the rest of us.



Can I walk to a store? Yes. It takes 30 minutes. It is a long walk. It is good for me. It is not 5 minutes like Chicago. Oh well.

At least you have lived both to make an informed decision. I have never done anything but live in small rural towns my entire life. That will permanently engrain a "set your ways" attitude. I take it personally about a "traffic jam" when I have to wait for more than 2 cars to pass before I can pull out onto a road. So I will continue to live a SFH and complain about having to mow my grass that I am never on except to mow it.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[NW-Bound]

I have lived in the suburb all my life, then got a 2nd home in the boonies. I have never lived in the city, where one can walk to stores and restaurants. I like to visit big cities, but same as Fuego, to live there would require someone to pay me big bucks, let alone me having to pay more for a home.

Even crowded suburbs like the surrounds of LA, SF, or DC make me miserable.

 

[bld999]

....

I am curious about something, since you bring multiple dwellings up: how do you maintain all 3? One of the showstoppers for me in being tempted to acquire a rural cabin is that I simply cannot imagine having the time to deal with more than one house to maintain.

Having multiples is also sometimes a housing crisis. When the values are ascending, it's a crisis of joy; when stuff breaks on it's schedule instead of yours, it's a crisis of pain.

 

[kcowan]

I am curious about something, since you bring multiple dwellings up: how do you maintain all 3? One of the showstoppers for me in being tempted to acquire a rural cabin is that I simply cannot imagine having the time to deal with more than one house to maintain.

Actually his number is 4, but I'm sure if he was pressed, the pied-a-terre in Toronto could be eliminated. The mountain home is for tax reasons. The other 2 are lifestyle choices. I know several less wealthy friends who make do with 2, including me.

As to maintaining multiple homes, there is another thread here that exhausts that topic.

 

[JoeWras]

Even crowded suburbs like the surrounds of LA, SF, or DC make me miserable.

OK, this is a good point.

There are different densities of suburbs. There are exburbs. Etc.

It has kind of been unfair for me to talk about central city vs. suburb since that is a very vague comparison.

There are suburbs with many dense housing projects separated by less density. The net effect is not good. You get all the traffic and all the problems with few of the benefits of suburbia. I'm thinking of many of the Chicago suburbs.

I will admit that I'd probably rather live in the city near good transportation and retail in this case.

 

[NW-Bound]

Having multiples is also sometimes a housing crisis. When the values are ascending, it's a crisis of joy; when stuff breaks on it's schedule instead of yours, it's a crisis of pain.

It's still not something that a lot of money can't solve.

And people say money is overrated.

 

[foxfirev5]

It's still not something that a lot of money can't solve.

And people say money is overrated.

Lot's of money is even better

 

[rayinpenn]

Chasing School districts
I lived on LI in a $500k tiny cape cod in a so so school district with high taxes. I sent my daughter and son to catholic school - more $. My daughters reading was slightly behind where it should have been. An opportunity came for me to move to PA, we shopped and bought in a well regarded school district. The teachers evaluated her and created a plan of action - Bam ten years later my applied mathematics major deans list daughter is at a top 100 university. Funny thing my $430k house is twice the size of my old cape cod the taxes are less and the living is easy...

It sometimes is the inflexibility of many that causes the problem ....LI like many other communities are not the only game in town...


Sent from my iPad using Early Retirement Forum.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

We have a yard with trees in a walkable area near mass transit, parks and open space. DH has pushed in the past to move further out where housing is less expensive, but then we would have to drive everywhere. I'd rather use the money to keep living in a walkable area, and I'm used to city living. We aren't getting any younger, so I like having bus and train service close by.

Added - We usually drive now because we save walking times for walking the dog as he is not allowed in the shops and restaurants. But everything we need like groceries, the bank, restaurants, post office, and library are all within a 1 mile radius so we could walk or maybe electric scooter to eventually.

 

[NW-Bound]

I'd rather live a bit out, where the density is not as high, traffic is lighter, and there are ample parking spaces. For short driving distances, I could get a short-range all-electric EV. A slightly used Leaf is dirt cheap.

In some metropolitan areas, to be in a spot where I would feel comfortable would require to be pretty far out.

 

[Closet_Gamer]

In the US we also have a strong cultural preference for single family homes, which, obviously, don't lend themselves to walkable density. It's a shame, really, because for a lot of people the yard around the house is just one more chore and not even such a great buffer from the inconsiderate neighbor.

Good point...I think it's an unfortunate by-product of our "I'll do what I please" culture...I will never share walls again not because I'm antisocial, but because I don't want to hear your bass/stereo, know what your watching on TV, fighting with your spouse about, etc.

I'm blessed with very quiet neighbors in a very quiet community right now...but in general my goal is that each time I move I double the space between me and the neighbors...

 

[Danmar]

Having multiples is also sometimes a housing crisis. When the values are ascending, it's a crisis of joy; when stuff breaks on it's schedule instead of yours, it's a crisis of pain.

OK. But if it's not a big percentage of your net worth it shouldn't be a big issue. I have always treated our real estate as capital gone, eg forget about it.