How do I get my GF interested in preparing for her long term financial future?

[haha]

It still got shaky at times, but pulled through well.

Good going Mulligan! This sounds very positive.

Still, I can't quite understand all the pitfalls and land mines one has to avoid in talking about money especially with the fairer sex! The message sent is not always the message received. She is very independent and self reliant especially financially. My sincere advise with all the subtle speak still got received as I was doing this to avoid her being a financial burden on me which was not the case.

Don't you feel that we men are just as resistant to "being helped" as women are? Many a woman has treid to help a man detour from his self dstructive path, only to be rejected and abused for her efforts. Usually there are reasons why we do what we do, for good or ill. I had a woman friend maybe 10 tens ago who inherited a nice hunk of change, enough for most of us to retire quite safely. She had not worked during the 13 years between her marriage and divorce, and she wan't planning to start if it could be avoided. Partly because I liked her, and partly because I didn't want to be close by if/when everything fell apart, I tried to give her a little background standard stuff about conservative investing and most importantly about health insurance. She more or less told me to mind my own business. I was never sure whether she suspected I wanted her dough, or if it was just her overall bad judgment and stubborness. She was best in class on both these traits.

Anyway I got out of Dodge, but we stayed in touch. She is now, at age 57, completely broke and working at some sort of telephone service business. Her only hope of retiring and staying in her lower middle class house is for her ex to retire, and apply for SS. Half of his would still perhaps not keep her above water. And I really don't think even this would work. People do stupid things all the time. For me it is sometimes a struggle to avoid my own favorite class of stupid decisions.

Ha

 

[Mulligan]

Good going Mulligan! This sounds very positive.

Don't you feel that we men are just as resistant to "being helped" as women are? Many a woman has treid to help a man detour from his self dstructive path, only to be rejected and abused for her efforts. Usually there are reasons why we do what we do, for good or ill. I had a woman friend maybe 10 tens ago who inherited a nice hunk of change, enough for most of us to retire quite safely. She had not worked during the 13 years between her marriage and divorce, and she wan't planning to start if it could be avoided. Partly because I liked her, and partly because I didn't want to be close by if/when everything fell apart, I tried to give her a little background standard stuff about conservative investing and most importantly about health insurance. She more or less told me to mind my own business. I was never sure whether she suspected I wanted her dough, or if it was just her overall bad judgment and stubborness. She was best in class on both these traits.

Anyway I got out of Dodge, but we stayed in touch. She is now, at age 57, completely broke and working at some sort of telephone service business. Her only hope of retiring and staying in her lower middle class house is for her ex to retire, and apply for SS. Half of his would still perhaps not keep her above water. And I really don't think even this would work. People do stupid things all the time. For me it is sometimes a struggle to avoid my own favorite class of stupid decisions.

Ha

Ha, I find it interesting how people react differently to the same thing. Talking this morning she added a little follow up ( I did not initiate ) to our conversation. She stated to the effect that finally I'm making a little extra money and don't have to worry about bills, I now have to worry about money for retirement she called it a double edge sword! I told her it shouldn't be a worry, but a joy to have surplus money and embrace the challenge of making your money work for you and get satisfaction of watching it grow. Hopefully she will buy into that line of thinking. One comment she made last night I thought was interesting that almost derailed our conversation was " why do you talk and worry about money? Nobody I know worries about it, or talks about it? " I'm sure she is right because none of her friends have any money or are eyeballs in debt. Of course, I bit my tongue and did not say that last comment out loud, thankfully.

 

[haha]

One comment she made last night I thought was interesting that almost derailed our conversation was " why do you talk and worry about money? Nobody I know worries about it, or talks about it? " I'm sure she is right because none of her friends have any money or are eyeballs in debt. Of course, I bit my tongue and did not say that last comment out loud, thankfully.

Mulligan, this is like a trip down memory lane for me. This same woman I referenced above used to cast my horoscope to prove that I was money obsessed and I needed to move into more spiritual interests for my own good.

Your thing with GF seems to be going well, but just be sure you are upwind if/when something blows. Trying to change people can be hazardous. Lots of single, pleasant school teachers around, with their long term money issues pretty well covered.

I have found it best to be as money obsessed as I please, but keep it to myself. To some (many) women, it is OK for Donald Trump or Warren Buffett to pay close attention to money, but for average guys like us it is a character flaw.

Sometimes they feel differently if they feel that they have a royalty interest in our wells. But I believe in cash basis accounting; no accruals please.

Ha

 

[travelover]

......... One comment she made last night I thought was interesting that almost derailed our conversation was " why do you talk and worry about money? Nobody I know worries about it, or talks about it? " ..........

All I can say is, don't mix your finances with hers in a legal sense.

 

[Mulligan]

All I can say is, don't mix your finances with hers in a legal sense.

She has become a really good saver since her new job, almost 25% of her take home. But your statement is a very telling one for me. At my age if I ever got married to her or anyone, I don't know if direct mingling of finances would work. I've been on my own the last 15 years and I have answered to no one with all my decisions good and bad. Habits become ingrained. I think at this moment in time, living with someone would be the best longterm scenario. I would have no problem providing the shelter and paying the monthly normal bills if she was at a financial disadvantage, but clothes, personal expenses, and mad money I would rather not have to fight over with a shared checkbook. Too old to fight about money, and too set in my ways to not care.

HA said - I have found it best to be as money obsessed as I please, but keep it to myself. To some (many) women, it is OK for Donald Trump or Warren Buffett to pay close attention to money, but for average guys like us it is a character flaw.

Another "instant classic" statement from Ha! Your second sentence I love, the first one I need to remember to do.

 

[carnivalday]

Being a single gal, I have had to learn about finances and saving for retirement on my own. I started investing in dividend paying stocks, and really got excited when those first dividends started coming in. Once I saw them I wanted more, and invested more, and got more dividends! Now Im rabid about saving every bit of money I can and putting it into one of my dividend stocks or funds. Maybe if gf would do this and see how her money can make her money, it might turn into a fun thing for her. Fun is a good thing.

 

[GregLee]

... and get satisfaction of watching it grow.

Or not watching it.. My wife has always been almost totally uninterested in our investments.. Back the 70s, we started an IRA for her with a growth mutual fund with $6000.. We didn't add any money after that, and seldom looked at a statement from the mutual fund.. But even without watching, her IRA has done just fine -- $200k now.. Your GF can just send in some money and forget about it.

 

[Mulligan]

Or not watching it.. My wife has always been almost totally uninterested in our investments.. Back the 70s, we started an IRA for her with a growth mutual fund with $6000.. We didn't add any money after that, and seldom looked at a statement from the mutual fund.. But even without watching, her IRA has done just fine -- $200k now.. Your GF can just send in some money and forget about it.

I'm hoping that will happen she is going to start at 6% into 401 plus match. Hopefully in year she will see the benefits and put it up to 10% as by then I think her cash cushion will be high enough she can't justify hoarding anymore and start investing more.
You reminded me of something that made me chuckle. 20 years ago, when I was married, I put two thousand in an Exxon IRA in my wife's name. She chastised me for wasting the money on it ( boy, she loved to spend!). When we were getting divorced five years later, I told her to make sure she got her addressed changed on the IRA so she could get her statements. She said do I get to keep it? I told her it's in her name and hers. She was stunned it had grew to 6k in that amount of time. She wasn't making fun of that purchase then!

 

[BellBarbara]

If you want to manage her money, MARRY HER. I think it's crazy for you to push her to financial instruments she is not comfortable with. What happens if she loses money, are you going to replace the money?

I can't believe I am the only one to comment on this.

 

[Mulligan]

If you want to manage her money, MARRY HER. I think it's crazy for you to push her to financial instruments she is not comfortable with. What happens if she loses money, are you going to replace the money?

I can't believe I am the only one to comment on this.

She isn't uncomfortable with the financial instruments, it's getting over just putting all the money in a 0.05 % savings account. Moving all her current money sans the emergency cushion, to I Bonds, and 3% interest checking account in another bank involves no risk. She has a 401 from another company, but its been a year since she has had the opportunity to do it. She has moved up into a higher tax bracket that really makes it more beneficial to invest in a 401k. It's just getting her exposed to these options and understanding them is the issue. Btw, I certainly didn't mean to suggest she is needing a man to marry her. She probably is more independent than I am.

 

[BellBarbara]

My point went over your head! I am not saying she needs a man to marry her, I am saying you are not married to her, thus not responsible for her, and should not push her to do things she is not comfortable with. I think this is a big mistake.

It's like you can't help yourself from trying to manage her money. And yes, she is uncomfortable, or she would do it on her own.

Have you asked her if she would rather you drop it? Or if she wants your advice?

 

[travelover]

My point went over your head! I am not saying she needs a man to marry her, I am saying you are not married to her, thus not responsible for her, and should not push her to do things she is not comfortable with. I think this is a big mistake............

I suspect that Mulligan plans to be with this woman long term, if not marry her. If she plans poorly, it hurts them both. I sympathize with his plight.

 

[Mulligan]

My point went over your head! I am not saying she needs a man to marry her, I am saying you are not married to her, thus not responsible for her, and should not push her to do things she is not comfortable with. I think this is a big mistake.

It's like you can't help yourself from trying to manage her money. And yes, she is uncomfortable, or she would do it on her own.

Have you asked her if she would rather you drop it? Or if she wants your advice?

No she appreciates it, it's just making sure it is presented the right way. Her uncomfortableness with it is not because she doesn't want do it, it's because she has no knowledge of it at all. She had never heard about I Bonds, did not know about the local bank paying 3%, and did not even know she moved up into a higher tax bracket and it's implications concerning tax deferred investing. In fact she called me today to let me know she got her TD account card and is eagerly waiting to deposit 5k into it to draw some interest from the money, that wasn't generating her anything. She is very intelligent, but has never been exposed to this and had no initial interest in it. Once I provide info and options to her and she agrees with whatever options she likes, she is setting it up and doing it on her own. Knowledge is power, but the delicate dissemination of it is the key.

 

[ESRwannabe]

You might want to start off just getting her to max the 401k and Roth. She could put the money in a money market fund. Maybe she would be willing to put the money into a high quality bond fund. I wouldn't try too hard to convince her to invest in stocks. It sounds like that would be too much of a change right now.

 

[haha]

If you want to manage her money, MARRY HER. I think it's crazy for you to push her to financial instruments she is not comfortable with. What happens if she loses money, are you going to replace the money?

I was thinking about your rather strong comment, not with respect to Mulligan but more about this general situation of relkationships between unmarried but long term partners. I don't think that relationships are so cut and dried that a couple should either get married or stay out of one another's extra-bed lives. Many of us are single, but consider that we are in long term relationships, or at least in relationships that we want to be long term. If someone can respectfully share knowledge with his/her partner, isn't that better than just going on down the road? Compatible partners are not so common that we can afford to be extremely choosey about everything. If you love someone, and given your belief system feel that your partner's approach to some area of life is far from effective, shouldn't you speak up?

I feel that partners routinely attempt to influence one another on many fronts, and without doing that and submitting to that, unless we are very lucky we are likely to spend most of our time alone.

I know that I would strongly prefer my partner to give me direction in some area that she seemed to know more than I, than for her to just disappear from my life in fear and frustration. These things can always be discussed.

Ha

 

[W2R]

I was thinking about your rather strong comment, not with respect to Mulligan but more about this general situation of relkationships between unmarried but long term partners. I don't think that relationships are so cut and dried that a couple should either get married or stay out of one another's extra-bed lives. Many of us are single, but consider that we are in long term relationships, or at least in relationships that we want to be long term. If someone can respectfully share knowledge with his/her partner, isn't that better than just going on down the road? Compatible partners are not so common that we can afford to be extremely choosey about everything. If you love someone, and given your belief system feel that your partner's approach to some area of life is far from effective, shouldn't you speak up?

I feel that partners routinely attempt to influence one another on many fronts, and without doing that and submitting to that, unless we are very lucky we are likely to spend most of our time alone.

I know that I would strongly prefer my partner to give me direction in some area that she seemed to know more than I, than for her to just disappear from my life in fear and frustration. These things can always be discussed.

Ha

To me, marriage is a financial arrangement (among many other things, of course). So I understand where BarbaraBell is coming from in that sense.

But your point is very well taken as well. Unmarried partners do care about one another and do not want to see the misery that a bad financial decision can make. This can lead to a great deal of respectful discussion that can be very constructive for both, ideally without either feeling pushed or controlled.

One reason that I enjoy not being married at this phase in my life, is that ultimately I have control over my own finances and by implication, my own destiny. That doesn't mean that I don't listen to, respect, and even welcome F.'s comments and opinions on my investment choices.

 

[freebird5825]

...One reason that I enjoy not being married at this phase in my life, is that ultimately I have control over my own finances and by implication, my own destiny. That doesn't mean that I don't listen to, respect, and even welcome F.'s comments and opinions on my investment choices.

+1

Mr B and I share information freely. He is the tax, insurance and budget expert. He scrutinized my insurance policies and directed me to a better agent representing the same national insurance company. It was a no-brainer for me to make the switch. Same agent just added him to my policy for a 50% cost savings to him. He qualified for the same safe driver program that I was enrolled in.

Between the two of us, I am the longer term and often (but not always) savvier investor. He is definitely a more aggressive investor than I am.
He is currently taking an upper level college course in Finance & Investing (text is Malkiel's Random Walk...) . He has consulted with me to find online data sources and understand mutual funds better. I have shown him the mutual funds I invest in. He has made no changes to his portfolio to date, but I have a feeling he may get the Psssst bug and take a more serious look at some of the muni bond funds I currently own.

The trick is to present knowledge without arm twisting. Boundaries must remain intact.

 

[Mulligan]

Excellent above comments. The issue usually isn't the problem, it's the way it's delivered and received. Money also represents a lot of different purposes. I can talk about money even my own personal finances to a friend like you would the weather, but others treat it differently. My goal is to get her to think of her money with a level of sophistication that the lady members on this forum have. If she was a spender and not a saver, i wouldn't have asked for suggestions or even brought it up, as that takes a whole lifestyle change that I wouldn't even try to influence. The comment "of your working hard for your money ( she has saved about 25% a month from her take home pay this past year) don't you want it to work for you?" really resonated with her. She emailed me today to let me know she set up her online I Bond account and was transferring her hoard stash into a new bank at 3% after work. Next step will be the 401k once she gets the info. I will explain plus and minus of options and let it be her call, but I imagine she will go conservative which is fine by me.
She is actually getting into it I believe. I think we would be surprised at how many people don't understand any type of investing. She told me today, she told her associate at work about our conversation about compounding interest and moving money into I bonds and his comment was ... " sounds like you got a real boring boyfriend. Of course he makes $100k a year has no savings and just bought a 50k truck that is being financed and was complaining to my GF he needed some OT to get his bills caught up. she marked that is not the way she wants to live. I'm amazed at how many people view money only in terms of spending with no thought to the day when they can't.
BTW- HA, thanks for the cover! I thought Barbara brought the bully bat to the party to hit me over the head with, but I thought maybe I implied something in my writing that made her think I was trying to dominate. Then I started thinking if my GF had the outgoing direct "tell you what I think" personality, Barbara appears to have, I wouldn't have needed assistance in the first place

 

[Moemg]

Topics such as these pop up regularly but I've never seen one of the woman start a topic on "How to get my BF interested in the proper vacuuming method ". Why is that ?

 

[bbbamI]

Topics such as these pop up regularly but I've never seen one of the woman start a topic on "How to get my BF interested in the proper vacuuming method ". Why is that ?

(prolly coz the woman is delighted if he vacuums at all...)

Mulligen...it seems like you're a good guy and you care for her.

 

[DangerMouse]

I see nothing wrong with Mulligan's attempt to educate his GF in the manner he is doing.

I try and educate family members along the same path, it's not a case of saying look at me and how well I am doing, more it's a case of I see how they struggle and I would love them to get to a position where they control their money and are able to live a life without scrimping and saving for every little thing.

Most peeps don't do a lot of investing beyond a bank account because they fear what they don't know. They have heard of someone who lost everyting thru some random investment, ie. Enron and based on that they assume all investments are too high risk. I think if you can share your knowledge of what can be classified as safer investments with higher returns, ie. I-Bonds, why would you not do it?

 

[freebird5825]

Topics such as these pop up regularly but I've never seen one of the woman start a topic on "How to get my BF interested in the proper vacuuming method ". Why is that ?

2 words and a match...no vacuum cleaners were harmed in the production of this show.

Mission: Impossible Opening Montage 3 - YouTube

 

[Moemg]

(prolly coz the woman is delighted if he vacuums at all...)

Mulligen...it seems like you're a good guy and you care for her.

Totally agree !

 

[FUEGO]

One comment she made last night I thought was interesting that almost derailed our conversation was " why do you talk and worry about money? Nobody I know worries about it, or talks about it? " I'm sure she is right because none of her friends have any money or are eyeballs in debt. Of course, I bit my tongue and did not say that last comment out loud, thankfully.

She is actually getting into it I believe. I think we would be surprised at how many people don't understand any type of investing. She told me today, she told her associate at work about our conversation about compounding interest and moving money into I bonds and his comment was ... " sounds like you got a real boring boyfriend. Of course he makes $100k a year has no savings and just bought a 50k truck that is being financed and was complaining to my GF he needed some OT to get his bills caught up. she marked that is not the way she wants to live. I'm amazed at how many people view money only in terms of spending with no thought to the day when they can't.

I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir here, but just wanted to point out that your GF is inconsistent. Nobody she knows talks about it or worries about it? Except everyone around her who is up to their eyeballs in debt. Most people try to avoid talking about or thinking about painful subjects, like how much debt they have or how they will be working as a walmart greeter at age 80.

I think you are doing a good deed getting her interested in her financial future. Encourage small baby steps, and if she shows that she has zero interest or aptitude for investing in anything beyond a 3% bank account account or I bonds, then let her do that.

I apologize that I didn't read the whole thread extremely closely, but Mulligan, you said you have your own pension and are still flush enough with cash to save and invest some pension proceeds? Maybe your GF is comparing her own financial situation with your financial situation and she feels she is so far behind that she could never attain the lofty position you have. As a result she may feel it isn't even worth trying to save and invest. You are on the right track to illustrate how something like $10,000 can turn into $25,000 even at 3% interest.

My DW is totally on board and a huge contributor to our FIRE goals, but not very involved or interested with the details. She just gets the basics - don't spend a lot, save a lot. Investing in risky investments like equities can lose you a lot of money short term, but long term have produced good average returns. Saving money on taxes by using IRAs and 401ks is like picking up free money off the ground, so she understands why it is important to maximize contributions to the limits each year. It took me a while to build the interest to a point where she wants to hear the quarterly update on where we are. Seeing the net worth grow to a respectable level also helped make looking at the numbers a positive experience too.

 

[FinanceDude]

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it think...........