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Old 07-29-2009, 09:34 PM   #21
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to go further off topic - I have seen the entrance exam for Hunter Normal School - This was when it was the girl's teacher training school (not college) in NYC in the late 1800's.

They were giving the test to bright eighth graders.

I would have to go review for that test, and they assumed an entire body of knowledge I just don't have.

The exit exam was also quite impressive, including 4 years of Latin & Greek.

ta,
mew
Exactly! My Grandfather with a 9th grade education knew his math, reading, spelling, science, geography, and history. And on top of that had great penmanship. In those days you learned or ELSE!
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Old 07-29-2009, 10:56 PM   #22
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Did she never consider Penn State University or, better yet, a two year community college followed by a transfer to Penn State for the last two years? Isn't she in Pittsburgh?
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Old 07-29-2009, 11:32 PM   #23
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Minimum admissions standards need to be raised at institutions of higher learning

They have been continuously ratcheted up. When public universities do this, it's usually in coordination with the state's high school's simultaneous increase in standards.

There is, of course, considerable political pressure on the universities from state legislatures to admit more students and to keep tuition low. They want want to keep the voters that are parents happy. At the same time, they underfund the institutions in an effort to keep taxpayers happy. You can't do all that simultaneously and the result in the last couple of decades has been increased enrollment, but also increased tuition and increased reliance upon loans. Not a good situation.
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Old 07-30-2009, 01:50 AM   #24
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I think when you lend people money for education you should first educate them on the financial realities of life.
I once heard something about leading horses to water..drinking was involved. What was it?
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Old 07-30-2009, 02:20 AM   #25
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Hmm... I'm confused. Are you the same haha who said



just a few days ago in the Psychology degree thread?

Sam
Yes, the very same man.

#1-I said "he believes". I didn't agree or disagree with this belief. I think there are reasonable arguments both ways.

#2 There is a meaningful distance between refusing to complete FAFSA, and telling a young person what they should study for 4 years or more.

#3, and possibly more germane, she is his daughter, not a niece or a nephew.

Maybe to you these are the same, but if you were my brother and you were telling my son how to conduct his life I wold tell you to butt out.

Ha
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Old 07-30-2009, 12:15 PM   #26
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She should join the military. Get the loans paid off, and take advantage of the single parent programs available. With a degree she could become an officer.
As a single parent, she will be required to have a "Family Plan" which designates a guardian for when (not if anymore) she deploys and is notarized. This must be updated yearly. I don't know of any 'specific' programs for single parents and in my experience, single parents who balked at doing the Family Plan were discharged.

The Family Plan is also required of dual-military couples.
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Old 07-30-2009, 06:55 PM   #27
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Yeah, family plans were the last big project I worked on before retiring. My unit had a lot of single parents and most didn't even have a will. I lined everyone up, did counseling, got the JAG to pay a visit and made some good progress.

Failing to do a family plan can lead to discharge. Most need constant updating too.

I work on a Navy base now and we have many single sailor programs, gov't funded/provided daycare on base, parent training (moms and dads), and a host of other programs available thru the fleet and family service center.

I guess most are available to all military members, but many are very valuable to single parents.
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Old 07-31-2009, 10:53 PM   #28
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to go further off topic - I have seen the entrance exam for Hunter Normal School - This was when it was the girl's teacher training school (not college) in NYC in the late 1800's.

They were giving the test to bright eighth graders.

I would have to go review for that test, and they assumed an entire body of knowledge I just don't have.

The exit exam was also quite impressive, including 4 years of Latin & Greek.

ta,
mew
Some NYC high schools still require 3-day entrance exams. I went through the trouble of testing for Aviation high school. I'm a smart guy, but I can't say that I simply waltzed through that exam. I hear that the test for Bronx Science is even more interesting.
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Old 08-01-2009, 01:19 AM   #29
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I just feel sorry for that girl. She's likely trapped in the working poor class for the forseeable future.

I made loads of bad decisions when I was that age, but I was lucky to have family support until I got squared away.
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Old 08-01-2009, 07:39 AM   #30
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I just feel sorry for that girl. She's likely trapped in the working poor class for the forseeable future.

I made loads of bad decisions when I was that age, but I was lucky to have family support until I got squared away.
I feel sorry for her, too. BUT - -although I too made loads of bad decisions when I was that age, they weren't as bad as hers. Although my family "rescued" me sometimes in my teens, after high school age I had to take the consequences of whatever bad decisions I made, like most kids. Sometimes those consequences are pretty tough but life is that way, sometimes.
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Old 08-01-2009, 12:54 PM   #31
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I just feel sorry for that girl. She's likely trapped in the working poor class for the forseeable future.

I made loads of bad decisions when I was that age, but I was lucky to have family support until I got squared away.

Well if she was smart she would move to CT. Here we would pay for her rent, medical for her kid, daycare, utilities, job education and a transportation allocation. She would also qualify for food stamps. Come on down!

Now what was it she went to college for.

Better yet, what the heck did she learn.
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Old 08-02-2009, 09:51 AM   #32
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Luckily, most people grow up eventually. Sounds like she is not quite there yet.
I'd have to differ with that opinion , seems most people continue to live beyond their means in one form or another their entire lives!
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Old 08-02-2009, 10:00 AM   #33
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As a single parent, she will be required to have a "Family Plan" which designates a guardian for when (not if anymore) she deploys and is notarized. This must be updated yearly. I don't know of any 'specific' programs for single parents and in my experience, single parents who balked at doing the Family Plan were discharged.

The Family Plan is also required of dual-military couples.
Ditto. The military doesn't want mothers, much less single mothers, unless there is a backup available to take care of the children. God forbid a woman non-officer has the wrong job classification and gets pregnant... she gets basically two choices (though its not said this way): abortion or discharge. Maybe its different now with recruiters having a tough time trying to meet numbers, but that's the way it was when my wife was in.
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Old 08-02-2009, 12:10 PM   #34
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I think she is a candidate for a "Darwin Award".
I agree. I know this school - this is a 1100 SAT small business college. A business degree from there is fine - I know a lot of graduates that get solid local jobs in accounting and business management.

But you gotta be NUTS to go out on a limb and borrow $140,000 for a college degree from Robert Morris.

I teach at a "comparable-scoring" university. I'd say 80% of my students are working near full time. The rest of the students are either looking for work or there on sports scholarship.

The students I meet understand "this ain't no Harvard" and they need to work to defray costs, reduce risks, and gain experience.

They leave school with debt - but it is a managed risk and decent bet that the college degree will "get them out of Home Depot" and into a professional career.
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Old 08-03-2009, 07:15 AM   #35
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I think it's also a herd mentality with these loans. "Everyone does it". Which is unfortunately not far from the truth, but it doesnt make it smart either.
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Old 08-03-2009, 09:23 AM   #36
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I finally read the article. First thing that bugs me is the title:

Student loans puts college graduate into deep financial hole

It should have read "Student puts herself in deep financial trouble". I hate this "I'm a victim" attitude. I'm fat because they have commercials for food, I made bad financial decisions because people offered me loans, that new car looked so cool I HAD to buy it, etc.

Heck, she was getting a business degree. Who is going to hire her into that industry after she couldn't even figure the impact of loans? I also hate the "entitlement" attitude. Here she is, under these tough financial times, but she had her own apartment ($600 a month on rent)? How about sharing? *Most* of the engineers I knew that were starting out shared apartments. These were people with good starting salaries, good job stability outlook, good opportunity for advancement and raises within a year.

And then, add to the $600 a month on rent...

... the $120-a-month cable and Internet bill.

... $329-a-month car payment

... $150-a-month cell phone plan

Geez, my cell phone is $8.33/month (prepaid), no cable, GIVE ME A BREAK!

And to break down the generation gap, my two college kids share a family plan with plenty of minutes and texting for them (if they don't go nuts, which they don't) - that is less than $90 for TWO people. What the frick kinda cell phone plan does she need?

Drop those above costs and guess what? She's got *more than enough* money to pay the loan. She can't do the math? The reporter can't do the math? $1200 > $1100, right?

Before she gets any kind of assistance at all, there sure ought to be some requirement that she cuts these expenses out. I know the administration of that would be a nightmare, but it just is not right.

And then... Her 80-year-old grandmother co-signed for the loans and could lose her house in North Fayette if the debts are not repaid. well, that *is* what co-signing is a all about. How can people sign stuff, and then just think they should be able to walk away from their responsibilities? But they make the loan people the bad guys? What about this girl, it appears keeping an expensive phone, cable, etc is more important to her than the risk that her grandmother will lose her house.

OTOH, these *is* something wrong on the loan offer side of this. I mean, outside of maybe some of the crazy loans made during the housing bubble, there is no way a 20 YO is going to get a $120,000 mortgage (and that would have had the house as collateral) with no job. There probably need to more on the education side of just what these loans really mean, and all the implications. Of course, the loan programs are probably part of the reason that education costs have increased faster than inflation. One of those unintended consequences of "everybody should be able to get an education", or "everybody should be able to buy a house", etc, etc.

-ERD50
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Old 08-07-2009, 12:18 AM   #37
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I finally read the article. First thing that bugs me is the title:

Student loans puts college graduate into deep financial hole

It should have read "Student puts herself in deep financial trouble". I hate this "I'm a victim" attitude. I'm fat because they have commercials for food, I made bad financial decisions because people offered me loans, that new car looked so cool I HAD to buy it, etc.

Heck, she was getting a business degree. Who is going to hire her into that industry after she couldn't even figure the impact of loans? I also hate the "entitlement" attitude. Here she is, under these tough financial times, but she had her own apartment ($600 a month on rent)? How about sharing? *Most* of the engineers I knew that were starting out shared apartments. These were people with good starting salaries, good job stability outlook, good opportunity for advancement and raises within a year.

And then, add to the $600 a month on rent...

... the $120-a-month cable and Internet bill.

... $329-a-month car payment

... $150-a-month cell phone plan

Geez, my cell phone is $8.33/month (prepaid), no cable, GIVE ME A BREAK!

And to break down the generation gap, my two college kids share a family plan with plenty of minutes and texting for them (if they don't go nuts, which they don't) - that is less than $90 for TWO people. What the frick kinda cell phone plan does she need?

Drop those above costs and guess what? She's got *more than enough* money to pay the loan. She can't do the math? The reporter can't do the math? $1200 > $1100, right?

Before she gets any kind of assistance at all, there sure ought to be some requirement that she cuts these expenses out. I know the administration of that would be a nightmare, but it just is not right.

And then... Her 80-year-old grandmother co-signed for the loans and could lose her house in North Fayette if the debts are not repaid. well, that *is* what co-signing is a all about. How can people sign stuff, and then just think they should be able to walk away from their responsibilities? But they make the loan people the bad guys? What about this girl, it appears keeping an expensive phone, cable, etc is more important to her than the risk that her grandmother will lose her house.

OTOH, these *is* something wrong on the loan offer side of this. I mean, outside of maybe some of the crazy loans made during the housing bubble, there is no way a 20 YO is going to get a $120,000 mortgage (and that would have had the house as collateral) with no job. There probably need to more on the education side of just what these loans really mean, and all the implications. Of course, the loan programs are probably part of the reason that education costs have increased faster than inflation. One of those unintended consequences of "everybody should be able to get an education", or "everybody should be able to buy a house", etc, etc.

-ERD50
Great post! and ERD50, Im glad you beat me to it, saved me a lot of typing.

No sympathy from me whatsoever. People living like this make me sick! You have to raise 140k to be broke! Lose the phone! Lose the cable and internet! Lose the car! Move in with the parents! Poor people, receiving Wic, cant afford luxuries. Deal with it! Your grandmother is about to lose her house because of your dumb ass! Poor you!

And why would she agree to this interview, and public humiliation?
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Old 08-07-2009, 04:40 AM   #38
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Ten of Ms. Dillon's loans totalling $108,639 were private signature student loans through the SLM Corporation -- commonly known as Sallie Mae -- which cannot be consolidated, forgiven, deferred or erased in bankruptcy.
I must say my ears perked up when I read this little gem. As someone who has personally bought over $100,000 of Sallie Mae bonds (the infamous OSM/ISM bonds) with face value of $130,000. I have a note for Majorie Dillion.

Young lady, I take it rather personally that you were so irresponsible with your borrowing. You see that isn't just some faceless corporation money you have borrowed in a very real sense that is my money. And after getting a glimpse of your past spending habits I liked the money back thank you.



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Mr. Frantz said she borrowed $43,290 in excess of the cost of tuition and fees to attend Robert Morris. Full-time undergraduate tuition for the 2009-10 academic year costs $19,950. That does not include room and board for resident students. Ms. Dillon was not a resident student.
"I can assure you she was told about the ramifications of borrowing," Mr. Frantz said. "She satisfied the entrance loan counseling requirements which the federal government requires to make sure they understand the implications."
I am not entirely sure why you borrowed this is kind of money, but it sounded like you knew it was a lot of debt. Reading between the lines I suspect Mr. Frantz told you that you shouldn't borrow this much. I am sure both of us wish you had listened to him.

Reading the article I was struck by contrast on some of our spending habits. I also have a cell phone bill of just under $150, but I unlike your bill this is the combined bill for myself, my sister, brother-in-law, mother, and her boyfriend. It is also my only phone, and felt a bit sheepish when my sister asked why I was spending $5 for text messaging. To help pay the mortgage I have a renter, you should do the same or move back in with your parents.

Now you are not entirely at fault here. I hold the idiots at Sallie Mae responsible for allowing you to borrow such a vast amount of money with so little oversight. I am also partially responsible since I loaned Sallie Mae the money, which they reloaned to you. I should have dug deeper, when I blandly read in the companies annual reports that the Private Student Loan business was unprofitable and being phased out. If I I knew that lax lending standards that were in place I never would have loaned them money. In my defense many folks wiser than myself bought the same loans at the same time, but the smarter ones sold them already.

I know it seems harsh that you are stuck with these loans for the rest of your life. You will undoubtedly be paying of these loans and I truly feel sorry for your daughter who will be deprived of material comforts. However you should know that if student loans were allowed to be discharge via bankruptcy nobody would loan money to students at an affordable rate. Hence, many deserving students would not be able to benefit from a college education.

Now if I can I just figure out a way to get this note to her, I will provide her with an incentive to continue paying.
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