HSA Summary

[justin]

I just got our HSA debit card from Aetna yesterday. Their brochure says to say or select "credit card" to get a signature based transaction and to say or select "debit card" and you will be required to enter a PIN. I don't think Aetna charges a different fee for each, but some service providers might charge you a transaction fee at the point of service(?).

Our HSA debit card also allows no-fee cash withdrawals at ATM machines to cover reimburable expenses (just maintain your own records). Our credit union doesn't charge a fee at their ATM's for third party debit/ATM cards, so I can always get reimbursed that way if I want. I may just keep the money in the HSA and let it grow tax free.

 

[mykidslovedogs]

My local credit union (with around 1 million accounts, very reputable) has 5% APR HSA accounts and they aren't on the nahu.org list, so apparently the nahu.org isn't exhaustive.

I don't think the nahu.org list is meant to include all the local banks. I think it specifically targets banks that market that they specialize in HSA accounts. Most local banks offer HSA accounts too. I've never heard of Shawnee, but that doesn't mean it's no good. I tried setting up a login just to see what kind of personal info. they asked for, and when it got to the part where it required my phone number, I decided not to go any further.

Here's another site that rates different HSA trustees based on certain criteria that you choose. I thought it was a pretty clever idea:

http://www.vimo.com/hsa/index.php?offset=0&sort=score&sorttype=desc

 

[mykidslovedogs]

Is there another way to pay for that type of stuff out of an HSA without incurring a transaction fee?

Oh one other thing is that if you order checks for yourself and then just take a lump sum withdrawl once every year or so, then you are not going to have a transaction fee for just writing a check to yourself out of the account.

Or, if the bank has online banking, they usually don't charge fees for doing online transfers from the hsa account to your personal checking or savings account either.

 

[magellan_nh]

I just got our HSA debit card from Aetna yesterday. Their brochure says to say or select "credit card" to get a signature based transaction and to say or select "debit card" and you will be required to enter a PIN. I don't think Aetna charges a different fee for each, but some service providers might charge you a transaction fee at the point of service(?).

Thanks to Justin and mykids. I think I understand the difference better now.

Looks like another case of businesses trying to provide low cost solutions for the customers that are paying attention while making a few extra bucks ($1.50 per transaction) off the customers that aren't. I guess that's fair since it's fully disclosed...

Jim

 

[REWahoo]

Here's a little DD for ya (STAY AWAY from these guys):

Registrant:
bretsworld.com
P.O. Box 191
St. Bruno, QC J3V 4P9
CA

Domain name: SHAWNEEHSA.COM

When you attempt to enroll, guess what they ask for...

"Account enrollment can be completed online. Prior to begining, please have the following information available.

* Your health insurance card
* The last four digits of your dependents' social security numbers
* The names, addresses, and social security numbers of your beneficiaries
* Checking account information - account number and routing number"

Say goodbye to your identity and your bank balance!!!

 

[wabmester]

Say goodbye to your identity and your bank balance!!!

Assuming it is a scam (and I assume it is), it's pretty clever. There are so many rinky-dink no-name HSA administrators, it's hard to differentiate legit from illegit.

Was the IP address of the guy who registered here from Quebec? (The domain is registered in QC.)

I'm sure Quebec is a nice place, but in my past-life experience, a lot of online fraud came from that province.

 

[REWahoo]

Was the IP address of the guy who registered here from Quebec? (The domain is registered in QC.)

No. It's from what my friends on the East & West coasts refer to as "flyover country". Proxy server maybe?

 

[mykidslovedogs]

Say goodbye to your identity and your bank balance!!!

Yup, that's just what I was thinking too. Too bad there are people out there who get suckered into stuff like that.

 

[magellan_nh]

A couple of us here use hsaadministrators.com, which doesn't charge a transaction fee for withdrawing funds, but there is a $20.00 set up fee, a $39.00 annual administration fee, and a quarterly 'custodial fee' of 0.0009 of your account balance. They allow investments in a limited selection of Vanguard Funds.

Thanks REWahoo. I've seen the posts about hsaadministrators before and they do seem like the best way to get access to Vanguard funds in an HSA.

I had been looking for an account with a debit card option, but maybe I should go with a straight mutual fund account and process the reimbursements quarterly or annually. I was thinking getting paid sooner would be better, but that's silly since I'm just moving money from one pocket into another.

Jim

 

[REWahoo]

Thanks REWahoo. I've seen the posts about hsaadministrators before and they do seem like the best way to get access to Vanguard funds in an HSA.

I had been looking for an account with a debit card option, but maybe I should go with a straight mutual fund account and process the reimbursements quarterly or annually. I was thinking getting paid sooner would be better, but that's silly since I'm just moving money from one pocket into another.

Jim

Jim, just so I don't mislead you or anyone else, hsaadministrators does have a debit card option, but you cannot use it to withdraw from Vanguard funds. From their website:

Debit Card alternative - not connected with mutual fund account
# Available through Resource Bank
# Pays 2% on balances of $1000 or more and 3.5% on balances of $5,000 or more
# FDIC insured
# Monthly maintenance fee - $2

 

[raysk]

Just because it's my first post does not mean its spam.
I originaly found the shawnee site on HSAfinder.com.
I would suggest that one could do a google search to find out more about them.
I did and was satisfied with what I found out.


Nice friendly bunch of folks here, teah right.

Ray

 

[REWahoo]

Just because it's my first post does not mean its spam.
I originaly found the shawnee site on HSAfinder.com.
I would suggest that one could do a google search to find out more about them.
I did and was satisfied with what I found out.


Nice friendly bunch of folks here, teah right.

Ray

Ray, I didn't find much on Google about your recommended custodian other than links to the site itself and links to comments such as your initial post on other discussion boards. I did find shawnee listed on HSAfinder.com along with the following disclaimer:

Listings on this page are voluntary and free to all account custodian providers. HSAfinder makes no warrantees as to the accuracy of the information provided by these banks, nor does it prevent any institution from being a part of this listing.

 

[raysk]

Here is a direct link to them
<A HREF=http://www.sas105.com/>link</A>

 

[REWahoo]

Here is a direct link to them
<A HREF=http://www.sas105.com/>link</A>

I could only get 3 of the 11 links on the page to work:

- one was to the page you referenced in your first post
- another gave a mailing address and phone numbers
- the third "Employee Resources" said 'coming soon'

Doesn't do anything to improve my doubts about the legitimacy of the site. At best it is a one-horse operation just getting started...at worst it is a scam. I'd recommend putting your HSA money somewhere else.

 

[raysk]

Some more info at:http://www.manta.com/comsite5/bin/pddnb_company.pl?pdlanding=1&referid=3550&id=fj3zz6
They are relativly new,started in 2001.
The majority of hsa custodians are new though.
I spoke with them at lenght on the phone and did dd before commiting any money.
The 4.25 rate is not a graduated rate,and the list of mutual funds they have in the program is very nice.
Some of the funds are closed to new investment unless purchased through an existing program.
They are supposed to add other funds as time goes by also.

 

[justin]

ShawneeHSA could be a legitimate HSA custodian...

I called the toll free 1-888 number on the website and spoke to a real live person and asked a simple question ("do you have a website?" or something). The lady sounded professional and spoke "American" (not some eastern european, indian or mexican accent or something like that of an international scammer). If it was a scammer, I would expect an answering machine or for the number to be disconnected.

morningstar discussion forum on shawneehsa:
http://socialize.morningstar.com/NewSocialize/asp/FullConv.asp?forumId=F100000098&convId=189178

From googling, it sounds like they are a small company, and just got started in HSA administration in August 2006 so they are a new player. That may explain why the website isn't completely finished (if it's a small biz). Do your own due diligence though.

 

[raysk]

One more:http://www.canopyfi.com/company/leadership.htm

Ray

 

[REWahoo]

One more:http://www.canopyfi.com/company/leadership.htm

Ray

Ray, that link takes me to something called Canopy Financial:

Canopy Financial provides innovative technology and electronic payment solutions that address the convergence of healthcare and financial services.

As a recognized Health Savings Account thought leader, Canopy syndicates content and consumer-driven decision support tools through its portal, HSA Insider.

I don't see anything on the Canopy site related to Shawnee. Am I missing something?

 

[magellan_nh]

Jim, just so I don't mislead you or anyone else, hsaadministrators does have a debit card option, but you cannot use it to withdraw from Vanguard funds. From their website:

Thanks again REWahoo. But I think I had a light-bulb moment thanks to this discussion and the insights from you and other posters. (...sometimes it takes a while for ideas to sink in)

As other posters have said, an HSA makes a better tax shelter than an instrument to fund medical expenses through.

Sure, it's there if you need it to handle unexpected medical expenses, but since you get the tax deduction regardless of what you spend, and since the balance grows tax deferred, it's best used as a tax sheltered savings vehicle that you don't withdraw from (-- no need for a debit card).

Assuming you have extra cash to cover the expenses, why pay for medical expenses out of your tax deferred funds (HSA) when you can preserve them and pay expenses with non sheltered funds.

Anyone see any flaws in my newly minted logic?

Jim

 

[raysk]

Sorry,must have put in wrong link.
Here is the text i was reffering to:
CHICAGO, August 14, 2006 -- Shawnee Administrative Services, LLC, a leader in defined benefit and defined contribution plan administration, announced today that it has selected HealthDirectSM from Canopy Financial, a leading provider of financial technologies that power consumer-driven healthcare products and services for health insurers and financial institutions, to power an innovative suite of Health Savings Account (HSA) solutions.

Shawnee Administrative Services, LLC has been a leader in Health Savings Account administration since 2004. Shawnee has chosen Canopy Financial’s HealthDirect to meet the needs of its customers. Shawnee will begin offering turnkey HSA administration and HSA investment services to employers, advisors, brokers, insurance carriers, and financial institutions on August 21, 2006.

“After a careful evaluation of technology solutions that could support our HSA product vision, it was clear that Canopy Financial was beyond compare,” said Randy House, President of Shawnee Administrative Services, LLC. “In the process of designing a world-class suite of HSA administration services for our clients, we found a world-class financial management platform to power it all - HealthDirect.”

“As a forward-thinking organization, Shawnee Administrative Services endeavors to offer a truly differentiated suite of HSA products and related services,” said Vik Kashyap, Chairman and Founder of Canopy Financial. “HealthDirect will allow Shawnee to enter this market quickly and profitably, while providing the foundation for future product and service enhancement.”

Shawnee’s HSA solution includes multi-channel customer service, custodial and investment account record-keeping, eligibility verification, line of credit management, and expense substantiation.

About Shawnee Administrative Services

Shawnee Administrative Services, LLC is a leader in defined benefit and defined contribution plan administration. Serving several large client organizations, Shawnee’s solutions include Flex Spending, Health Reimbursement, Health Savings, and COBRA administration. For more information, please visit our web site at www.sas105.com or call 1-888-556-2900.

About Canopy Financial

Canopy Financial provides innovative technology solutions that address the convergence of healthcare and financial services. Serving a diverse range of healthcare, financial services, and technology clients, Canopy empowers the development and delivery of branded, best-in-class consumer-driven healthcare products and services through its market-leading offerings, including HealthDirectSM, HealthDirect InvestmentsSM, HealthDirect Bill PaySM, CardLinkSM, HSA MarketplaceSM, and HealthScoreSM. Canopy syndicates its Health Savings Account thought leadership and domain expertise through its portal HSA Insider (www.hsainsider.com), a leading online resource regarding Health Savings Accounts. Canopy maintains offices in Chicago and New York. For more information, please visit our web site at www.canopyfi.com or call 1-866-960-4700.

 

[REWahoo]

As other posters have said, an HSA makes a better tax shelter than an instrument to fund medical expenses through.

Sure, it's there if you need it to handle unexpected medical expenses, but since you get the tax deduction regardless of what you spend, and since the balance grows tax deferred, it's best used as a tax sheltered savings vehicle that you don't withdraw from (-- no need for a debit card).

Assuming you have extra cash to cover the expenses, why pay for medical expenses out of your tax deferred funds (HSA) when you can preserve them and pay expenses with non sheltered funds.

Anyone see any flaws in my newly minted logic?

Jim

Jim, I think your logic is fine if you are funding the HSA from earned income or income from other non tax deferred sources. However, if your only income is from a traditional IRA you wouldn't see any tax benefit unless you spent the HSA funds on qualified expenses. Or am I missing something?

 

[magellan_nh]

Jim, I think your logic is fine if you are funding the HSA from earned income or income from other non tax deferred sources. However, if your only income is from a traditional IRA you wouldn't see any tax benefit unless you spent the HSA funds on qualified expenses. Or am I missing something?

That makes sense. In my case, since I FIRE'd kind of early, a decent chunk of our portfolio isn't deferred and it throws off taxable income (which we live on). By using some excess incomne to fund the HSA, we get a current tax deduction and get to turn some taxable funds ito tax deferred funds.

Once our taxable funds get exhausted and we start taking money out of our IRAs, it will again be beneficial to reimburse medical expenses through the HSA, since we get to pay those expense using tax-free withdrawals.

The last tidbit (which I would have never thought of without this board) is that if we keep records of all our medical expenses, we can wait until we're into the IRA withdrawal phase of our retirement and then retroactively take a reimbursement for all prior medical expenses incurred since we started the HSA.

Jim