clifp
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
- Joined
- Oct 27, 2006
- Messages
- 7,733
On home size from the Census 616 page report on housing. Rough number of house at particular size as of 2005 (the latest available)
Sq ft million of units
< 1000 8.8
1000-1500 20.3
1500-1999 19.5
2000-2499 13.5
2500-2999 7.0
3,000-3999 6.4
4000+ 4.2
Now the actually data of average/median size is probably buried in the 600 pages I didn't look at. Eyeballing the numbers the median size looks like it some where around 1800 square feet, and the mean is clearly well over 2000. Note this includes vacation homes and mobile homes so understates the size of primary residence.
I think the existence of 10+ million homes greater than 3000' shows that McMansion aren't just limited on the rich coastal cities.
As for the average age of the houses, I invite anyone to pore through the data. I simply note that the well reported nesting trending, the explosive growth of DIY home builders store like Home Depot, and Lowes, genetriciation, the numerous stories of flippers buying homes renovating them and then selling them, and the dramatic increases in Real home prices all point to pretty much one conclusion. Americans over the last 10+ years have invested dramatically in housing, the result is we live in bigger, and better and more expensive houses.
Now I am not sure we came first the bigger houses, and then filling them with stuff or the more stuff caused us to buy bigger house. (I suspect the later since there is also an large increase in storage rental usage in the US).
You couple the increase in home quality with record levels of home ownerships I think that wife going to work has resulted in some real benefits to the middle class.
Ladelfina, while you are right that suburbanization of America has moved many costs to the consumers. I think you are forgetting people still have choices there 140,000 convenience stories in the US pretty much all of which sell milk and bread and many of which are within walking distance. I think people are pretty rational and if the need just milk or bread that go to a 7-11 and more than that than the go to a Costco/Walmart. I know a fair number of people without cars and they figure out someway of getting to Costco in Hawaii a couple of times a month.
I disagree. If I had 6 months to live and had no money or heirs, I'd get me a pile of credit cards and live like a king. My prosperity, first class travel, renting Porsche's, and 5* restaurants would be quite real to me. Of course it wouldn't be sustainable, and wouldn't finding out the doctors made a mistake be a mixed blessing!
One thing I did find thought provoking on her speech, was the wholesales adoption that you need to go to college to have a middle class live style. My initial reaction was I wish everybody didn't buy into the college trap, cause I think a lot of kids should do something else like a learn a trade, rather than study liberal arts they don't care about. After some reflection, I think parents are right, in increasingly global economy, American will need to be better/smarter workers to continue to live in house 3x as large as the British!.
So while my pessimistic sides find the leverage of the typical middle class family pretty terrifying, the optimist in me, notes that at least a large chunk of the leverage is invested in improved houses which acts as saving for most America (a bit naively IMO), and education of future generations.
I think much of the board probably shares my belief
Two ways be rich; earn more or desire less... (from my favorite T shirt)
Sq ft million of units
< 1000 8.8
1000-1500 20.3
1500-1999 19.5
2000-2499 13.5
2500-2999 7.0
3,000-3999 6.4
4000+ 4.2
Now the actually data of average/median size is probably buried in the 600 pages I didn't look at. Eyeballing the numbers the median size looks like it some where around 1800 square feet, and the mean is clearly well over 2000. Note this includes vacation homes and mobile homes so understates the size of primary residence.
I think the existence of 10+ million homes greater than 3000' shows that McMansion aren't just limited on the rich coastal cities.
As for the average age of the houses, I invite anyone to pore through the data. I simply note that the well reported nesting trending, the explosive growth of DIY home builders store like Home Depot, and Lowes, genetriciation, the numerous stories of flippers buying homes renovating them and then selling them, and the dramatic increases in Real home prices all point to pretty much one conclusion. Americans over the last 10+ years have invested dramatically in housing, the result is we live in bigger, and better and more expensive houses.
Now I am not sure we came first the bigger houses, and then filling them with stuff or the more stuff caused us to buy bigger house. (I suspect the later since there is also an large increase in storage rental usage in the US).
You couple the increase in home quality with record levels of home ownerships I think that wife going to work has resulted in some real benefits to the middle class.
Ladelfina, while you are right that suburbanization of America has moved many costs to the consumers. I think you are forgetting people still have choices there 140,000 convenience stories in the US pretty much all of which sell milk and bread and many of which are within walking distance. I think people are pretty rational and if the need just milk or bread that go to a 7-11 and more than that than the go to a Costco/Walmart. I know a fair number of people without cars and they figure out someway of getting to Costco in Hawaii a couple of times a month.
1.) "material prosperity" is not real if it is simply a function of debt
I disagree. If I had 6 months to live and had no money or heirs, I'd get me a pile of credit cards and live like a king. My prosperity, first class travel, renting Porsche's, and 5* restaurants would be quite real to me. Of course it wouldn't be sustainable, and wouldn't finding out the doctors made a mistake be a mixed blessing!
One thing I did find thought provoking on her speech, was the wholesales adoption that you need to go to college to have a middle class live style. My initial reaction was I wish everybody didn't buy into the college trap, cause I think a lot of kids should do something else like a learn a trade, rather than study liberal arts they don't care about. After some reflection, I think parents are right, in increasingly global economy, American will need to be better/smarter workers to continue to live in house 3x as large as the British!.
So while my pessimistic sides find the leverage of the typical middle class family pretty terrifying, the optimist in me, notes that at least a large chunk of the leverage is invested in improved houses which acts as saving for most America (a bit naively IMO), and education of future generations.
I think much of the board probably shares my belief
Two ways be rich; earn more or desire less... (from my favorite T shirt)