investing strategy

[lawman]

I believe liquefied natural gas and/or compressed natural gas powered automobiles will become much more popular in the future..How can one best capitalize on that if I'm right?

 

[plex]

What if you are completely off? That would be quite a bet since that type of technology is no where near close to being developed.

 

[travelover]

What if you are completely off? That would be quite a bet since that type of technology is no where near close to being developed.

When I worked for MegaMotors we sold a few cars and light trucks powered by compressed natural gas. The technology is there, the gas pumps are not. Most sales were to fleets, mostly gas companies.

 

[Leonidas]

My current thinking is that I don't want to own a car company, but Honda does seem to be going strongly toward making some/more NatGas powered cars.

Other than that, the only NatGas fueling stations I can find around here are all owned by Clean Energy. Formerly Pickens Fuel Company, as in T.Boone "I want to make zillions on wind energy and get you'all to switch to compressed NatGas fer yer cars and make me a few more zillions off a that" Pickens. Nothing wrong with that at all. It's traded on the Nasdaq - symbol CLNE. Now may not be a good time to buy, I see that Cramer just featured it recently and it took a little rip upward. Damn, wish I had bought some last week when I first found it. Guess I'll watch and research that one for a while until the yahoos get clubbed to death.

Other than that, I have thought about trying to find who makes the compressors that would have to be sold to station owners or do-it-yourselfers for home use.

 

[lawman]

Other than that, I have thought about trying to find who makes the compressors that would have to be sold to station owners or do-it-yourselfers for home use.

Keep me posted..I'm thinking there must be some parts manufactured for the automobile engines that are different than gasoline or as you say the compressor angle..I think Ford is working on one or two small cars that will use CNG.
Thanks

 

[brewer12345]

Ummm, how about just buying a domestic natural gas producer?

 

[lawman]

Ummm, how about just buying a domestic natural gas producer?

I've done that (CHK) and plan to buy more..I'd just like to place a small bet on something with bigger odds..

Natural gas just seems to be the next logical step in the use of dwindling non renewable energy resources..Investing in natural gas seems low risk to me for long term investing..

 

[Alan]

I believe liquefied natural gas and/or compressed natural gas powered automobiles will become much more popular in the future..How can one best capitalize on that if I'm right?

I would think this is a very long term investment given the level of investment required in infrastructure. Iceland has invested heavily in Hydrogen powered vehicles and built an infrastructure to power buses running on fuel cells but it is a very small country (half the population of Vermont) and the "scale up" to a major country would require some serious investment. Personally I see fuel cells as a better bet for the long term future as natural gas still has carbon to dispose off during oxidation.

I think cars using existing existing infrastrucure will increase in popularity for a quite a while to come. - Biofuels and hybrids for example. (The next generation of hybrids for example promise 150mpg and need nothing else other than gas stations and a regular electrical receptacle to plug into).

 

[chinaco]

IMHO - If the use of natural gas to fuel transportation grows it will not be for individuals. It will be for fleets of vehicles like local UPS trucks, phone company vehicles, local mail trucks, etc. I doubt it will be made available at the normal filling station.

Ditto Brew's advice. However, I would limit my exposure to any perceived solution at this time.

I think plug-in electric hybrids are the most likely solution to prevail for the general public over the next 20 years. It does not matter if the fuel is natural gas, hydrogen (the variations). There will be a fuel that is converted to electricity in the vehicle.


On energy in general, there is some speculation that alternative energy will drive the next speculative bubble. If I were to speculate, I would try to do it with an ETF or mutual fund (for diversification). The problem may be that by the time all of those ETFs show up in mass... it is a sure sign the bubble is ready to pop.

 

[Bultacoman]

Propane/gasoline

Back in the early 70's we ran a dual fuel propane/gasoline car. The conversion consisted of a small a valve/ air mix system mounted on the front fender in the engine compartment and an adapter placed on top of the carb. A simple toggle switch in the car would allow either propane or gasoline to be used. It did not use any engine modification.

Jeff

 

[Finance Dave]

What if you are completely off? That would be quite a bet since that type of technology is no where near close to being developed.

Really? I work for an engine making company and we've been selling LNG engines for 12 years.

To the OP, not sure....perhaps invest in the stocks of companies who will sell the engines/vehicles...or another option is to invest in small startup companies developing the "hang on" technologies, such as compressed gas fuel delivery systems, high-pressure gas storage devices, etc.

Dave

 

[AbbyNormal]

I’m at a loss to see how anyone thinks the technology is no where close to being developed. Semi third world Thailand has both LPG and CNG cars and trucks on the road today. Lots of them. Some are dual fuel as Bultacoman mentioned. It’s not just fleet types, although I think all of BKK taxis are CNG or LPG as are most buses. The gasoline stations added the filling systems very quickly (took a couple of years) and now they’re all over the country. The guys who do the conversions have people standing in line.

Thailand also has E10 in 91 and 95 octane available everywhere with E80 on the way. Diesel is also popular here especially in light trucks. Mine gets over 30 mpg which is on a par with electric hyrids.

[FONT=&quot]Many[/FONT][FONT=&quot] most countries have done a lot more than America has to reduce oil dependency

Abby
[/FONT]

 

[plex]

I love how you guys are pointing to tiny countries which have a fraction of the infrastructure costs to put in a whole different fueling system.

 

[Alan]

[FONT=&quot]Many[/FONT][FONT=&quot] most countries have done a lot more than America has to reduce oil dependency[/FONT]

And there you have it. Most countries use government intervention to reduce the need for oil whereas the US relies on the the market to drive such changes. (for Government intervention you also need higher taxes). This is why INMO the US is going to be well behind the curve in building the infrastructure for LPG or LNG or H2 powered vehicles.

When I was in Mumbai last year I read that the city had just removed the restrictions on taxi fees now that 80% of taxis were powered by propane. They had been restricting the minimum fare that a cab could charge (such that propane cabs can charge higher fares).

 

[utrecht]

Im a Dallas police detective. We recently got quite a few CNG vehicles. Everyone hates them.

There is only 5 CNG refueling stations in the entire city of Dallas.

You can smell a faint odor of gas in the car but they have all been inspected more than once and there are no leaks. One officer was overcome by fumes and taken to the hospital. No leak can be found in that vehicle either.

Its like driving a 1 cylinder car....read: no power at all.

The fuel tanks are tiny. The civics have a range of just over 100 miles....then you better be nearby one of the 5 stations.

In other words, they suck and I dont see them catching on anytime soon.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Hey utrecht...dont mince words! Tell us how you really feel!

 

[Leonidas]

Its like driving a 1 cylinder car....read: no power at all.

The fuel tanks are tiny. The civics have a range of just over 100 miles....then you better be nearby one of the 5 stations.

In other words, they suck and I dont see them catching on anytime soon.

So, if you're riding with a partner it doesn't take much to convince him/her not to smoke in the car?

When I started working in Houston in 1980 I remember there were CNG patrol cars at one station. It was in the slowest and least crime ridden division, so I assume that poor power was not a big issue for them. But the round trip to the central jail had to be 30-40 miles, and I guess they had to fill up before heading downtown because the only CNG station was at the substation.

Other than the smell of NG in the car, do you think the car would be attractive for other uses/users in urban areas?

Oh, and thanks for the post. It brightens my day whenever I'm reminded of one of the reasons I retired from the big blue machine. There were days I was convinced that if we ran a dog on the executive floors in the big building that we would find crack, or at least weed. I just knew that they had to be smoking some mind altering substance up there, because even the stupidest person alive, if sober, couldn't dream up some of the stuff those people did.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Other than the smell of NG in the car

Other than that Mrs Lincoln, did you enjoy the play?

 

[unclemick]

1974 - big Chevy Impala, Propane salesman, Huntsville Alabama - the tank filled most of the trunk - that thing would really haul ass - I suspect he was an ex?? moonshiner.

NASA had a lot of forklifts and vehicles running on NG from at least the 70's on.

heh heh heh - Evolution not revolution.

 

[haha]

Does anyone understand the economics of gas to liquid conversion? The technology is quite old and well established-maybe 100 years old! If this is not too wasteful, it would seem to have much to recommend it. Our trucks and over-the-road busses and trains already run on diesel. Europe is full of small efficient and fairly well performing direct injection turbo-charged diesels. Audi has gone quite far with this technology.

Although I suppose that the economic doctrine of comparative advantage would suggest that we continue to use foreign oil as long as it lasts, I wonder if that is really practical given that eventually countries that are mostly our enemies will end up owning all our productive assets?

Ha

 

[brewer12345]

Does anyone understand the economics of gas to liquid conversion? The technology is quite old and well established-maybe 100 years old! If this is not too wasteful, it would seem to have much to recommend it. Our trucks and over-the-road busses and trains already run on diesel. Europe is full of small efficient and fairly well performing direct injection turbo-charged diesels. Audi has gone quite far with this technology.
Ha

Understand? Not in the chemist sense of the word. However, I have been watching this story unfold for a few years in China and elsewhere. There is a company called Methanex that is the world's largest supplier of methanol. Basically, they take stranded deposits of natural gas and via a pretty simple process turn it into methanol, which is used as a precursor chemical for a huge variety of things. While it is still small, a fast-growing end-use is turning methanol into dimethyl ether (DME) and then blending the DME with other fuels as an extender. I am lead to understand that this is done to stretch diesel fuel and propane/cooking fuel. If you want to know more, look up their website and look at their presentations (pretty much all of them talk about it). Since this is a public company, I suspect you could also get on the horn and ask them questions about it. They are plenty knowledgable and usually are willing to talk about it.

 

[Running_Man]

There are many advantages to the CNG vehicles including cheaper operational costs and less engine maintenance and lower per mile fuel costs on top of the quite a bit lower pollution which will make it the growing fuel of choice in the coming years for govermental and enviromental groups.


As an investment perhaps CLNE??

Clean Energy Fuels Acquires Texas Landfill Gas Plant to Produce Renewable Gas: Financial News - Yahoo! Finance

 

[haha]

Understand? Not in the chemist sense of the word. However, I have been watching this story unfold for a few years in China and elsewhere. There is a company called Methanex that is the world's largest supplier of methanol. Basically, they take stranded deposits of natural gas and via a pretty simple process turn it into methanol, which is used as a precursor chemical for a huge variety of things. While it is still small, a fast-growing end-use is turning methanol into dimethyl ether (DME) and then blending the DME with other fuels as an extender. I am lead to understand that this is done to stretch diesel fuel and propane/cooking fuel. If you want to know more, look up their website and look at their presentations (pretty much all of them talk about it). Since this is a public company, I suspect you could also get on the horn and ask them questions about it. They are plenty knowledgable and usually are willing to talk about it.

Thanks Brewer, will do.

Ha

 

[lawman]

There are many advantages to the CNG vehicles including cheaper operational costs and less engine maintenance and lower per mile fuel costs on top of the quite a bit lower pollution which will make it the growing fuel of choice in the coming years for govermental and enviromental groups.


As an investment perhaps CLNE??

Clean Energy Fuels Acquires Texas Landfill Gas Plant to Produce Renewable Gas: Financial News - Yahoo! Finance

This article in today's Houston Chronicle.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/headline/biz/5974815.html

Interesting and informative discussion..Thanks guys!

 

[lawman]

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