Millennials-Advice to break through the road blocks of high cost of education

[Greencheese]

I found this comic to be rather humorous given this thread

 

[tulak]

We're following the advice above:

- Taking AP (and starting next year, IB) courses. This year he's in AP world history and AP computer science.

- Setting his expectations as to what we'll offer towards college (fixed amount per year, enough to graduate debt free from UC or CSU.)

- Told him there's no shame in Community College first.... and might be a better path if he wants to go to a UC school (path to transfer that guarantees acceptance if you follow it carefuly.)

- Told him we have veto power over the major. He knows our criteria is based on a job at the end.

This is what we've told our kids. DS dropped the idea of out of state and is going to one of the in-state public universities. Solely based on cost. We're providing a full ride for in-state and anything more he'd have to pay. Not worth it for him (his choice). He's already accepted at one, waiting to hear from the other. DS will have about 25-30 credits completed by taking AP classes (about 2/3 of his freshman year). He also wants a comp sci degree, so we're good on the job prospects.

We have two more years for DD. Right now she's leaning towards the top in-state public university. Not sure if she'll get in as a freshman, but if not, she says she'll probably go to a community college and transfer in. I need to do a bit more research, but the university accepts transfer students with 40 or more credits (as a sophomore). DD is also planning on taking AP classes. If she is motivated, she could probably do a couple of quarters at a community college and along with AP credits, transfer to the in-state university. Easy stuff. She's also planning on a STEM degree, but we'll see how that pans out. What she does know is that she wants a degree so she can "make bank." That's her lingo. Teenagers are fun.

None of this is break the bank. If they live at home (which they won't), it'd be about 12k/year. Excluding scholarships, etc.

And as for Millennials, they have it more together than I did at their age. Same for their friends. Good for them.

 

[davismills]

I know we're "hell bent" in this country to achieve the dream of college education, but what's wrong with learning a trade? Mike Rowe has a foundation that helps our young people attain such experience. About the Foundation « Profoundly Disconnected

 

[FI by 2024]

I know we're "hell bent" in this country to achieve the dream of college education, but what's wrong with learning a trade? Mike Rowe has a foundation that helps our young people attain such experience. About the Foundation « Profoundly Disconnected

Absolutely nothing is wrong with learning a trade. We need people to do those jobs as much as we need doctors.

I found this comic to be rather humorous given this thread

This is great! Thanks for sharing.

 

[marko]

I suppose I'm just upset that my assets were fully exposed, and I have to pay full boat where as many earning the same or more then I will get close to free rides, through "institutional" grants and other easy financing options.

I don't think the idea of those who save being penalized vs those who squander being rewarded is limited to the educational system.

I read somewhere: "Life isn't fair. Your job is to figure out where it's not fair in your favor and go there"

 

[Amethyst]

That is on the money.

Another, that I recall from my 20's and occasionally lived, is "the truth is, that life is hard and dangerous." (Joyce Cary)

I read somewhere: "Life isn't fair. Your job is to figure out where it's not fair in your favor and go there"

 

[Amethyst]

Some of the wealthiest people in our section of the county, were plumbers or construction people who started their own businesses.

I know we're "hell bent" in this country to achieve the dream of college education, but what's wrong with learning a trade? Mike Rowe has a foundation that helps our young people attain such experience. About the Foundation « Profoundly Disconnected

 

[harley]

Some of the wealthiest people in our section of the county, were plumbers or construction people who started their own businesses.

Sounds like normal people. Hmm...you could almost call them the millionaire next door.

 

[Sojourner]

Sounds like normal people. Hmm...you could almost call them the millionaire next door.

+1

I recently learned that one of my best friends from high school is getting ready to retire and move to his dream location somewhere in the Pacific Northwest. He didn't go to college and has been working steadily as an electrician for the past 25-odd years, and now he has a very nice pension available to him. And he's not even 50 years old yet. Not exactly like TMND, but I'm sure he must be feeling very financially secure nonetheless.

 

[imoldernu]

Interesting overview of the staying power of education debt:

College debt is not necessarily something people shed in middle age. According to the U.S. Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, the number of those 60 or older with student loan debt grew from about 700,000 to 2.8 million from 2005 to 2015. Their total bill is $66.7 billion.

 

[NW-Bound]

Wow.

I wonder if it is not something people carry from their youth, but rather debts incurred by displaced older workers who pay for some training, hoping to start a new career.

 

[Texas Proud]

Interesting overview of the staying power of education debt:


Quote:
College debt is not necessarily something people shed in middle age. According to the U.S. Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, the number of those 60 or older with student loan debt grew from about 700,000 to 2.8 million from 2005 to 2015. Their total bill is $66.7 billion.

But if you read, the biggest reason is that they are putting their kids or their grand kids through college.... not that it is their debt...

 

[mrftexas]

I've been going through this with my son - he's a senior in high school and wants to be an engineer. He applied to a couple on in-state schools (tuition, room, board ~$23K/yr) but also wanted to apply to one out-of-state school (tuition, room, board ~$48K/yr). We let him apply, but he understood that absent some sort of out-of-state tuition waiver, there was no way we were paying an additional $100K for him to go out of state.

In our case, we can argue whether or not the in-state options (UT Austin, Texas A&M) are as "elite" as the out-of-state school (Georgia Tech), but there's no way I'd ever encourage him to take on $100K in debt to go to Ga Tech.

If your kid does well in high school, there are some schools that offer some pretty nice packages. For example, if your child gets at least a 32 on the ACT and has a 3.5 GPA, they'll get their tuition paid for at the University of Alabama (worth $27K/yr for 4 years). With a 30 on the ACT, the school will cover 2/3 of the tuition ($18K/yr). Now, no one is going to confuse Alabama for Stanford or MIT, but we then get back to the question of whether or not an "elite" school is required for success (it's not).

Another thing to look at is the cost of books. I know that it pales in comparison to tuition, room and board, but there are options to save money. I have a daughter who is a junior in mechanical engineering. In her 3 years of college, we've spent about $750 on books. We'll rent the required textbook, and if she wants/needs a copy for future reference, I'll buy the same book but an edition or two older. This semester, her fluid mechanics book is $240 new from Amazon (or the bookstore). I can rent it for $39 from Amazon and purchase the same book but two editions older for $4.99 (including shipping). And the basics of fluid mechanics hasn't changed in a long, long time, so it's not like the older book is out of date. So, I'm out $44 instead of $240. Multiply this for 4-5 classes each semester and it adds up.

 

[Texas Proud]

I've been going through this with my son - he's a senior in high school and wants to be an engineer. He applied to a couple on in-state schools (tuition, room, board ~$23K/yr) but also wanted to apply to one out-of-state school (tuition, room, board ~$48K/yr). We let him apply, but he understood that absent some sort of out-of-state tuition waiver, there was no way we were paying an additional $100K for him to go out of state.

In our case, we can argue whether or not the in-state options (UT Austin, Texas A&M) are as "elite" as the out-of-state school (Georgia Tech), but there's no way I'd ever encourage him to take on $100K in debt to go to Ga Tech.

If your kid does well in high school, there are some schools that offer some pretty nice packages. For example, if your child gets at least a 32 on the ACT and has a 3.5 GPA, they'll get their tuition paid for at the University of Alabama (worth $27K/yr for 4 years). With a 30 on the ACT, the school will cover 2/3 of the tuition ($18K/yr). Now, no one is going to confuse Alabama for Stanford or MIT, but we then get back to the question of whether or not an "elite" school is required for success (it's not).

Another thing to look at is the cost of books. I know that it pales in comparison to tuition, room and board, but there are options to save money. I have a daughter who is a junior in mechanical engineering. In her 3 years of college, we've spent about $750 on books. We'll rent the required textbook, and if she wants/needs a copy for future reference, I'll buy the same book but an edition or two older. This semester, her fluid mechanics book is $240 new from Amazon (or the bookstore). I can rent it for $39 from Amazon and purchase the same book but two editions older for $4.99 (including shipping). And the basics of fluid mechanics hasn't changed in a long, long time, so it's not like the older book is out of date. So, I'm out $44 instead of $240. Multiply this for 4-5 classes each semester and it adds up.

Interesting info on the out of state schools like Alabama.... my son graduated in the top 20 students (I think 13th) with a class of 1500... and when they were giving out awards there were a number of people ranked lower than him that were getting full ride scholarships... and as you probably found out UT is not giving anything.... now I know why...

I also think there are a couple of others in Alabama as there were 3 or 4 students that got full ride... and I do not think they were all going to the same school....

 

[Winemaker]

There was an article in WSJ in December about SS benefits cut to pay student debt.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/social...ng-reduced-for-unpaid-student-debt-1482253337



My engineering books have been pretty good dust collectors over the years as they have been on bookshelves in my office and in 3 homes. It's worse now, everything is on a computer program. You name it, size of pipe, electrical conductors, size of beams, even drawing of your design.

 

[imoldernu]

The ARE lesser known opportunities for young people that do require some digging.
Case in point:
My youngest grandson who is admittedly quite gifted, graduated last year from the Illinois Math and Science Academy... "IMSA". His ambition is to do good, whether as a Doctor Without Borders, or in mentoring the poor in foreign countries.He was guided by school counselors to apply for a "Stamps Scholarship", which most have never heard of. Last year he was approved for a four year scholarship... tuition, room and board, books, a new computer, and all of the major expense categories that a young man would be expected to need. In addition, as part of the scholarship, a first year expense paid trip to the country of his choice (up to $12,0000) to absorb the land and the culture. (I believe he is choosing between India and Peru... ).

Naturally not an open door for everyone, but an example of the wisdom and forethought of those have gone before, and want to pay back for their success, and to further the interests of the nation.

Here's the website for the foundation.:

Stamps Family Charitable Foundation | Stamps Leadership Scholars

Scholars receive annual awards that range from $5,400 to $72,000
(four-year awards total an average of $20,000-288,000) with
additional funds for enrichment activities such as study abroad,
academic conferences, and leadership training. the stamps foundation
and partner schools evenly share the costs of the awards.

An example of giving back.

 

[cooch96]

Interesting overview of the staying power of education debt:

DF has student debt from the 70s and 80s. I doubt he has any inclination to ever pay it off. i doubt any of my siblings have any intent to pay off their's either.

 

[Philliefan33]

My advice to soon-to-be college students is "follow the money". If you are a high-stats student with a legitimate chance for admission at a top twenty school, make sure you also apply to schools that will reward you with merit scholarships. Incurring high debt to go to the most prestigious school is not worth it if you can get a degree from a well-respected university for free.

For mere mortals, who won't be showered with merit money, don't buy into the hype of paying for prestige if it means you incur big debt. Look for ways to maximize your ROI. Take AP courses where appropriate, start at community college, maybe commute to a local university to save on housing costs.

We used a combination of the above with my daughters. Oldest went to a private college that gave her enough merit aid to bring the cost down to what it would cost to go to Penn State. Her AP credits and one summer class at the local CC gave her enough credits that she graduated in eight semesters, despite devoting the eighth semester to student teaching. The youngest went to Pitt and also finished in four years.

I think some of the posters here are making judgements about the affordability of college based on their unique situation without considering that things are not the same everywhere. Some people live states with higher in-state tuition costs*. Some students won't be admitted to their low-cost options. Some people live in rural areas where commuting to college is not possible.

*Many people don't know that Penn State is not a state-run university. It is "state affiliated", as is Pitt and Temple. In-state students get lower tuition but it is higher than at the true state schools. Tuition at PSU is $17-$20K per year vs about $10K /year at one of the 14 state system colleges.

 

[younginvestor2013]

I agree that colleges are getting out of control expensive. I think over the next decade that trend will stop or they will be priced out.

I went to a private university and was fortunate that my parents paid for my college. I get routine mailings and phone calls from my university asking me to donate to them. My dad often encourages me to do so. Although I had a great experience and my degree has paid dividends so far in my career, I have seen my alma mater's financials, and they do not "need" my donation. I'm concerned my donation would go towards landscape improvements than it would actually helping out someone in need.

And I agree that students need to be "smart" about choosing majors that will pay off. I majored in accounting which is arguably one of the more boring majors. However, it gave me a ton of job options right out of college. I am almost 6 years out of college and my annual income now is almost 50% higher than what it was when I graduated. Additionally, I have no concerns about being unemployed and not finding a job. Although I do have savings to cover me if I were to lose my job, and I do live in a big city with lots of jobs, my resume at this point makes me very marketable. I am contacted almost twice a week by recruiters that seek me out.

I think another important factor is the power of networking. Every job (even college internships) have been through people I know or know through someone else. It is important for students to use the networks of their parents, friends, family Friends, etc, because you never know where an opportunity will arise.


Sent from my iPhone using Early Retirement Forum

 

[Totoro]

Another way around: get your degree in Germany (or a few other European places). Germany is (quasi) free I think, Belgium is close with about 1.000 USD per year for tuition. Just as an example.

Bonuses: you'll learn another language, get some good social skills, a broader perspective etc ..

 

[Winemaker]

I agree that colleges are getting out of control expensive. I think over the next decade that trend will stop or they will be priced out.

We said the same thing back in the '70's!

 

[rodi]

Another way around: get your degree in Germany (or a few other European places). Germany is (quasi) free I think, Belgium is close with about 1.000 USD per year for tuition. Just as an example.

Bonuses: you'll learn another language, get some good social skills, a broader perspective etc ..

This is one of the reasons I pursued duel citizenship for my sons (Italy).... If they choose to go to school in the schengen region they won't have visa issues. Only downside I can see is the 529 funds don't work for many European universities. Not the end of the world....

 

[REWahoo]

This is one of the reasons I pursued duel citizenship for my sons (Italy)...

Because they fight a lot, right?

 

[rodi]

Darn autocorrect (or crappy spelling on my part). Dual citizenship.... Doh!

 

[Gumby]

Because they fight a lot, right?

Loro combattono molto.