MMND: Financially Independent?

[cute fuzzy bunny]

20 words?

How about "I really dont/didnt care"?

I was hardly paying attention to be honest, except for the part where on the slightest questioning she lit her own head on fire and complained that we were all just picking on her because we couldnt deal with a successful woman. :

The behavior after that was predictable and shallow, as was the "blog".

Just the type of stuff you expect to see for 3 minutes on Dr. Oprahs View that makes you feel inspired for 5 minutes and then forget about.

The only stupid part is all the twaddling about what a bunch of big fat meanies we are. More of the same lighting the edges of stuff on fire to see what happens.

I'm done with this "debate"... :

 

[twaddle]

TP, the mods deleted several of the more colorful posts in her introductory thread. So, history has been revised.

I'm not interested in defending her message or her style. I think what you're telling me is that you didn't like her message or her style, so you felt it was your duty to personally attack her.

I'm just saying that I don't agree with your tactics.

There are criminals out there. There are people who are intentionally trying to deceive and who are trying to profit based on that deception.

I'm all for calling the cops when we catch a criminal. As far as I can tell, no crime was committed here.

FWIW, I thought she had some interesting fodder for discussion, especially the bit about momentum investing on her blog. But there was no way we were going to have a reasonable discussion about any of her ideas given the way she was greeted and the reaction to her "vibe."

 

[TickTock]

I'm curious about what motivates you folks. You obviously feel justified in attacking this person. Why?

I don't consider analyzing someone's claims an attack. Show me where the analysis is wrong. Or, MMND can show me where it's wrong. Or, anyone else can show me where it's wrong.

TickTock has thoroughly "debunked" her by telling us that she's not rich enough to be considered financially independent.

She claims to be financially independent. By her own writings, I do the math and conclude that she is not, by the 4% SWR yardstick. I'll also note that I made certain assumptions in that analysis, which I tried to identify.

This does not debunk MMND. It debunks (unless the analysis is shown to be wrong) her claim of being FI. No more, no less.

Is that the new standard that posters here are to be held to? In that case, tell us your net worth and expenses and let's see if you're fit to post here.

I hope not, as I wouldn't be allowed in under that standard. However, I don't claim to be FI, and that's an important distinction.

 

[twaddle]

... by the 4% SWR yardstick.

Gotcha. So she chose the phrase, but you chose the yardstick, and you found that her phrase wasn't supported by your yardstick and that warranted a new thread.

I was just curious.

 

[Gumby]

Gentlemen:

Are we not beating a supine equine here?

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

.

 

[bbbamI]

God bless.

 

[TickTock]

Gotcha. So she chose the phrase, but you chose the yardstick, and you found that her phrase wasn't supported by your yardstick and that warranted a new thread.

Yes, her phrase, my yardstick... but it isn't just *my* yardstick, is it? It's a generally accepted yardstick, not one pulled randomly out of the air. Yes, her phrase doesn't support 'my' yardstick. Yes, I did feel it warranted a new thread - look at how the relevant information was scattered, not easily accessible and correlated. I went through the excersize, and shared the results. Go back to my original post; my conclusion is clearly stated for "traditional withdrawal guidelines" and I stand by that. Heck, with a 20% SWR, I'm FI now with room to spare! But not by 4%.

I was just curious.

No problem.

 

[TickTock]

Gentlemen:

Are we not beating a supine equine here?

I don't think I am.

I think that I took scattered information, brought it together, and analyzed it.

I see discussion here on various folks' opinions: Warren Buffett, John Bogle, William Bernstein, Suze Orzman, Scott Burns, Ray Lucia...

Why not MMND?

 

[maddythebeagle]

Why would anybody post this thread attacking someone that hasnt posted in over a month....I think that I am going to wait 30 days and post a new thread on how I think OP should get a f'ing life....

God Bless this Forum

 

[SteveR]

...In fact, I wrote to the moderators of this forum and requested that they delete every mention of me and my blog from the archives (the links you folks have provided - not me). However, the moderators chose to refuse my request....
With wishes for peace, love and happiness for all of you,
Jen

Jen,
It is the policy of the board to not delete individual information or messages on a board-wise basis. This board is a public forum and information posted here is for public view. Posters should be aware that anything they post in a public forum is viewable by anyone for a very long time. The board policy of not deleting the contents of threads is long standing and firm. Once a thread is formed removing the contents of that thread makes it impossible to understand or follow. Deletion of information within member posts is done only when the information is clearly outside of the Community's rules.

You or anyone else is welcome to post on this board as long as it is done within the Community Rules linked on each forum page. The Retire Early forum is a unique place among its' peers and one of the things that makes it so is the open and sometimes lively discussion of a wide range of topics. The board is composed of a very diverse group of individuals who share a similar mindset...early retirement and financial independence. A fair number of these folks have fought and scratched their way to being FI and are very proud of what they have done, much like yourself. With that kind of experience comes a natural skepticism about folks that seem to have gotten there "the easy way." Sometimes this is expressed as contempt or as a negative bias towards new posters who appear to be cheer-leading their approach to getting to FI. This does not make it right...it is just what it is sometimes.

The moderators of this forum are all volunteers (or draftees) who provide their time and energy to keep the board within the rules so everyone can enjoy the board without excessive negative discussions that only inflame and escalate to verbal battles with no possible winners. Some folks just like to spar with "new" folks with new ideas. The forum moderators try to give the board a lot of rope before we step in and referee. We want everyone to enjoy the forum and we all understand that there will be strong feelings at times. It is our job to keep the messages within the Community Rules; not to baby sit every discussion.

The forum has a lot of vintage members who have very strong opinions at times. Many of these individuals also have a tremendous amount of experience and knowledge they share on this board. Sometimes the moderators will cut these folks a bit more slack than a new member who has yet to validate themselves as genuine to the other board members. Yes, this is not completely fair...but nobody promised you a rose garden....only a chance to learn and share your opinions, experience and knowledge on a great many topics. If you are easily offended by being challenged then perhaps taking a less vocal approach to some topics would seem to be in order.

Please feel free to continue to post as you see fit. This board is open to anyone who abides by the Community Rules. I hope you decide to stick around and give the forum a fair shake while you read and learn what is here for the looking. It is indeed a gold mine of information from some of the most savvy folks in the FIRE community.

Good luck.

 

[TickTock]

Why would anybody post this thread attacking someone that hasnt posted in over a month....

I posted the thread.

And once again, I repeat that I am NOT attacking a person; I am analyzing claims that have been made by a person.

Or are claims by a poster off-limits?

I think that I am going to wait 30 days and post a new thread on how I think OP should get a f'ing life....

Fair enough. Perhaps I should get a life. Or maybe I have one. Or maybe I choose to spend some time on something you don't consider worthwhile. :shrug:

[sets watch]

On April 2nd, I will scan the boards for your post suggesting that I get a life...

[/watch]

 

[TickTock]

I note now that MMND has responded in this thread, and rather than post an actual rebuttal to my analysis, she has declared that we are bullies and that she has no interest in participating in this kind of environment.

Then she quotes some pretty poetry and wishes us peace, love, and happiness.

If anyone wants to demonstrate where my analysis is wrong, I'm listening...

 

[twaddle]

I see discussion here on various folks' opinions: Warren Buffett, John Bogle, William Bernstein, Suze Orzman, Scott Burns, Ray Lucia...

Why not MMND?

That's why I asked about motivation. You're basically saying that you view her as a public figure. Somebody who influences the decisions of others.

If that's the case, then I think it's valid to talk about her behind her back. Personally, I tend to view her as just another poster with a blog.

So, you basically want to discredit her because you don't agree with her message. You find her message dangerous. Is that it?

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Still thwapping the horse, are we?

I believe she presented herself as a public figure, with television appearances and a trademarked name, didnt she?

And I believe that any claims she made are fair game for analysis.

But you're right. Subversive people are a little dangerous.

 

[twaddle]

CFB, for somebody who says "I really dont/didnt care," you have an awful lot to say.

I could be swayed by the "public figure" argument if I thought that 1) she was influential, and 2) her message was dangerous. I'm not swayed.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

You're also doing a lot of lip flapping considering you've got zero skin in the game. I said I dont really care about the mommy.The baseless whining of various twaddlers is a different matter.

On the latter topic, it sounds like you overestimate the average television watcher.

 

[twaddle]

Dammit. I did a little victory dance when you said "I'm done with this 'debate'."

How do I undo a dance?

My motivation is to understand why faceless internet posters feel justified in beating up other faceless internet posters when they probably wouldn't do the same in a face-to-face meeting.

It's always been an interest of mine.

 

[Nords]

Why would anybody post this thread attacking someone that hasnt posted in over a month....I think that I am going to wait 30 days and post a new thread on how I think OP should get a f'ing life....
God Bless this Forum

My what sharp teeth you have, Maddy.

I think it's good to see an analysis like this, even if TickTock didn't put in an 80-hour workweek to get it done in "real time". It's not as if MMND was answering the questions quantitatively or even-handedly. This board has a pretty sharp BS detector (thanks to JG et al) and she was way up there.

And, according to other posters, it's not as if she limits her tactics to just this board. Classic drive-by self-promotion through controversy. She'll need lots of patience and tolerance (and answers) when it comes to those media interviews!

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

People who have already decided they dont like the culture of a particular discussion group, yet hang around to simper about their disagreements.

Thats always been an interest of mine.

I think its rooted in insecurity.

Or are you just trolling again?

You can go ahead and leave your little dance done. BTW, were you wearing a nice pink tutu when you executed the pirouettes?

 

[twaddle]

I think it's good to see an analysis like this, even if TickTock didn't put in an 80-hour workweek to get it done in "real time". It's not as if MMND was answering the questions quantitatively or even-handedly. This board has a pretty sharp BS detector (thanks to JG et al) and she was way up there.

And, according to other posters, it's not as if she limits her tactics to just this board. Classic drive-by self-promotion through controversy. She'll need lots of patience and tolerance (and answers) when it comes to those media interviews!

People who have already decided they dont like the culture of a particular discussion group, yet hang around to simper about their disagreements.

Thats always been an interest of mine.

I think its rooted in insecurity.

Or are you just trolling again?

You can go ahead and leave your little dance done. BTW, were you wearing a nice pink tutu when you executed the pirouettes?

Two fine examples of board culture. I have no comment on them, but I want to quote them here to preserve them.

 

[Martha]

OK guys, quit picking on each other.

Time to shut this one down. PM me if you think you have a good reason to reopen this thread.

 

[megacorp-firee]

Amen ... very entertaining from a people watching point of view ... but I agree the horse is starting to really smell now...
Thanks Martha!

 

[Martha]

Oops megacorp, you snuck in as I was locking the door!