Money Dilemmas

[Zero]

Thanks for the inputs Sarah, SueJ and tkopel, and absolutely I think they are likely being opportunistic and I'm trying to think of whether that is based on desperation or deceit.

I have only received a response from one (the older) of them to my request for the mortgage # and address to mail a check. It said, "hi, thanks, I'll let Dale know you called, I don't know those details.".

 

[Keim]

I agree with Sarah, to all of a sudden ask a distant relative for that kind of money seems very wrong. They obviously can't handle their finances, and you will not be helping them by just giving them money. I would put written stipulations on them in order to get the money. They should show that they are both actively working towards becoming financially responsible. Maybe make them write out a budget for you to review, or prove that they have gone to financial counseling and gotten rid of the excess expenses. You may even set it up so you are paying the mortgage/credit card or whatever debt directly so you know they are not using it for alcohol and tobacco. Obvoiulsy this gets you way more involved than you may want to get, but hey, if they are using your money, you have a say in what they need to do to get it, and how they use it. In any case, if you do give them money, don't expect them to repay.

The above is exactly why I wouldn't want to loan a family member money. It just gets so... messy.

"Neither a borrower or a lender be" seems best when it comes to family. If I felt it would help-and I could afford it-I'd just give them some money. If it came back eventually, good. If not, no hard feelings. And, no need to insert myself further into their affairs.

 

[W2R]

"Neither a borrower or a lender be" seems best when it comes to family.

I like that one a lot.

Some additional wise words were once said that could apply here. "Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish; and you have fed him for a lifetime."

I suppose that in this case, the above could mean that instead of giving the person money, we should (cautiously, tactfully, considerately) teach him how to manage the money he has.

 

[Zero]

Hmmm, Google is a very nice feature. I entered their address and there are 2 large pickups in the driveways in the mapping. Have no idea when that was done.

 

[Texas Proud]

Thanks for the inputs Sarah, SueJ and tkopel, and absolutely I think they are likely being opportunistic and I'm trying to think of whether that is based on desperation or deceit.

I have only received a response from one (the older) of them to my request for the mortgage # and address to mail a check. It said, "hi, thanks, I'll let Dale know you called, I don't know those details.".

For me, a distant relative is one that I do not see often... and if I do not see them at least once a year, there is no chance of me helping them out..

Now, a close relative is different...

 

[Moemg]

When our kids were in school we encountered this. DH worked for a public agency and they were not allowed to do these kinds of fundraising in the office. I was a stay at home mom. There were fundraisers too often so I finally got to the point that I asked the teacher how much the kid was supposed to sell, how much profit did that bring in. Instead of selling crap to the same people all the time, I donated the expected profit. It was usually $10-$15. Not a problem for us.

I tried to do that when my daughter was a girl scout but it was not allowed. I ended up buying the cookies and taking them to work for my co-workers to enjoy .

 

[Nords]

Hmmm, Google is a very nice feature. I entered their address and there are 2 large pickups in the driveways in the mapping. Have no idea when that was done.

So apparently they already have at least $2000. Or more than one type of consumer loan...

 

[Indigo Mule]

I like that one a lot.

Some additional wise words were once said that could apply here. "Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish; and you have fed him for a lifetime."

"And give a man a couple of cats, and he'll never be able to stop fishing." (On a picture of a man, fishing, while cats raid his catch.)

 

[W2R]

"And give a man a couple of cats, and he'll never be able to stop fishing." (On a picture of a man, fishing, while cats raid his catch.)

Hilarious!

 

[Chuckanut]

What you're doing makes sense. I used to hate it when we went to group lunches. Being a new employee, buying my first house, etc, I would order a cheap item, no liquor or dessert. Then at the end of the meal some guy who ate and drank like it was the end of the world would announce we should split the bill evenly!! Sorry, Charlie. Why should I pay for drinks and desserts for a guy making twice what I make. I learned to avoid those event.

 

[Chuckanut]

Here's a good one where I work. A Foundation has been started to provide extra money to teachers for special projects. Each year we get the opportunity to request a grant for anywhere from $250 to $1000, no guarantees we get any money, of course.

Each year we also get a request to contribute to the foundation via payroll deduction from our pay checks. It's a big deal to have as many teachers as possible from each school contribute to show support for the work of the foundation. I think you can see where I am going with this. The vast majority of the foundation's funds came from teachers. So, we contribute money to a foundation and then write a grant proposal in the hopes of getting some of it back every few years. What is that about?

 

[Nords]

Here's a good one where I work. A Foundation has been started to provide extra money to teachers for special projects. Each year we get the opportunity to request a grant for anywhere from $250 to $1000, no guarantees we get any money, of course.

That foundation sounds redundant alongside organizations like DonorsChoose.org.

 

[traineeinvestor]

What you're doing makes sense. I used to hate it when we went to group lunches. Being a new employee, buying my first house, etc, I would order a cheap item, no liquor or dessert. Then at the end of the meal some guy who ate and drank like it was the end of the world would announce we should split the bill evenly!! Sorry, Charlie. Why should I pay for drinks and desserts for a guy making twice what I make. I learned to avoid those event.

In places where they wont let you split the cheques, I find it's usually the opposite problem - unless you split it equally, the person whose credit card gets used ends up getting stiffed because, collectively, the other perople don't contribute enough. If its a big group, the shortfall can be a lot of money.

 

[chris2008]

@North + solution for the cheque splitting:
First everybody contributes in cash, then you all decide by matchdrawing who collects the cash and uses the credit card to pay for it all ...

 

[rescueme]

...Then at the end of the meal some guy who ate and drank like it was the end of the world would announce we should split the bill evenly!! Sorry, Charlie. Why should I pay for drinks and desserts for a guy making twice what I make. I learned to avoid those event.

DW/me travel quite a bit - mostly by ourselves, but sometimes in organized group trips.

On the group trips, you always get a person/couple that use that scam to get away cheap.

It happens once, it doesn’t happen the second time. Then they are off to another group and complain about the "unsocial couple" (us ) that they had dinner with the previous evening.

It really dosen't matter to us, since we will never see these folks for the rest of our lives. I can see where it would be more of a problem with friends/family/co-workers.

BTW, we've gone to establishing the "rules" before we sit down to a meal with anybody we don't know. That has eliminated most of the problem (unless we're caught up in conversation and I forget to bring up the subject).

 

[NW-Bound]

"Teach a man to fish...

and he will sit on a boat all day drinking beer".

 

[palomalou]

Here is my current money dilemma and it's not a fun situation to be in because it involves my deceased uncle's 2 sons in their 30's and their current long term unemployment. They live in a medium size city in Oklahoma and are relatives that I've only seen maybe 3-4 times, ever. But did visit a couple of years back because my uncle was gravely ill.

No, don't even try to help them out. How hard do they work? If smoking and drinking heavily, it is easy to come up with a hypothesis. Further, my guess is that if you help them out now, they will come back regularly for a handout.

I guess I might be a witch, but that would definitely be my take on it.

 

[PaddyMac]

No, don't even try to help them out. How hard do they work? If smoking and drinking heavily, it is easy to come up with a hypothesis. Further, my guess is that if you help them out now, they will come back regularly for a handout.

I guess I might be a witch, but that would definitely be my take on it.

I agree. You don't know them well, which means they don't know you well. How hard is it to say you've thought about it and would love to help, but you've evaluated your savings and in this economy you are just not in a position to help by sending money.

Not only will you never get repaid, they will be back in six months for more.

 

[jclarksnakes]

When I worked in the hospital the techs and unit secretaries were often selling cookies and candy as fund raising for their kids school and other activities. I ALWAYS bought five boxes and opened and shared a couple of them in the break room. Other nurses questioned me on this pracice. I reminded them that the techs and secretaries made a lot less than we did and being generous was often paid back in smooth working relationships many times over. Nursing is a high stress job. If you have everyone working as a team and watching out for each other it can be a lot less stressful. As important as being generous with the money is the practice of being generous with praise. When someone working with you does a good job telling them so will go a long way in promoting a good working relationship. It seems that most everyone knows this but very few practice it. Many times after praising someone for good work they told me I was the only person who ever said anything nice about their work. People who say "nobody thanks me for my work, why should I thank someone" totally miss the point and contribute to their own unhappiness.

 

[Zero]

Wow, this thread is a nice emotional cleansing for me.

In early career, I was the dupe of many a "everybody toss in a $20" when I knew my share was closer to $10.

And after years of that, I became the guy who said; "mine was a $6 entree and a $2 beer, here's a $10". Scowls from the alpha-wannabee (profiteer) and chuckles from me. Usually others road my wave to also avoid the supplement to profiteer person.

 

[Texas Proud]

Wow, this thread is a nice emotional cleansing for me.

In early career, I was the dupe of many a "everybody toss in a $20" when I knew my share was closer to $10.

And after years of that, I became the guy who said; "mine was a $6 entree and a $2 beer, here's a $10". Scowls from the alpha-wannabee (profiteer) and chuckles from me. Usually others road my wave to also avoid the supplement to profiteer person.

Yes, you have to stand your ground at times.... for a one off, I have decided that it is not worth the hassle....

But, I worked for a boss who loved to go with everybody in the group and split the bill... I objected within the first week.... I said "I did not get a tea or coke and do not want one, why should I pay for it"... well, that implimented a 'tea tax' on people... there were a few who started to drink water... then when we went to a place with big difference in prices on their plates, someone said 'I only bought the $6 item'... so, we started charging an extra for buying the big cost items... it was amazing to see that the overall bill came down over time.... people were not trying to max out their purchase so they would feel like they were getting their money's worth... now they were paying what they owed... at times we even got more money than needed which went to the birthday fund...

 

[kcowan]

We would sometimes do a separate bill for liquor. That helped the big spenders focus on where all their money was going. Since it was most often lunch, the difference in entrees was minor.

 

[jclarksnakes]

What I have often seen in these "count every penny, I had less than you" split the bill at the table discussions is that the waiter or waitress often gets stiffed.

 

[BigNick]

What I have often seen in these "count every penny, I had less than you" split the bill at the table discussions is that the waiter or waitress often gets stiffed.

All part of Bistromathics. Because restaurants are familiar with that particular area of the mathematics/physics continuum, they invented the automatic gratuity for groups of 6 or more.

 

[Sarah in SC]

Nick, that is hilarious! Thanks for sharing!