More on "friend who wants to sell IUL to me"

Is he a friend? Well, I guess. My wife and his wife are great friends. Him and I had many a margarita when he was a "Corporate" sales guy and things were OK. But then somehow he became an Insurance(?) sales guy after they moved to Florida. Must be doing OK as he has a nice sail boat, etc.

But when I saw 14% REITs as if these were somehow "safe" investments I didn't know whether to laugh or harbor disgust for him. I don't know how he can in good conscience sell this crap to people. Maybe he doesn't have a conscience. . . .
 
With friends like this...
 
1) how much do they charge for the hedging to ensure a 0% floor?
2) how much LI do you need to buy?
 
Big_Hitter said:
1) how much do they charge for the hedging to ensure a 0% floor?
2) how much LI do you need to buy?
Click to expand...

I have no idea as I won't go near any of that with a 100 foot pole. I'm sure they are loaded with fees, etc.

And he has a yacht "but where are the customers yachts??"
 
oops never mind, they have a 13% cap on the upside, that's how they do it
 
it's probably not a bad product if you need the LI...


but there are soooo many options with LI
 
Might be time to evaluate the definition of a "friend" :LOL:.
 
looks like some of these strategies are predicated on making a big LI investment then borrowing against it to invest in the "market"


isn't that sort of like taking out a HELOC and investing it in the "market"?


kinda scary (to me anyway)
 
Sorta related....

Got the invite for the free Ruth Chris dinner for two in the mail today. Guy's initials post name are ChFEBC; some sort of advisor for federal employees? We're at the beach that week, might have gone just to screw with him. Looked on linked in and he sells insurance. Anyway, what I'm missing:

-Tax free retirement
-Strategies to NEVER lose money in the stock market again
-Stop paying taxes - LEGALLY!

Oh well, guess I'll just have to miss out on this fantastic opportunity. I'll just live off my big fat Greek Bonds. :)
 
Maybe it's time to fight fire with fire. Every time he mentions this crap, let him know about the great opportunity you have for him in your Amway network. Or Herbalife. Or whatever. Pitch it long and pitch it with gusto, complete with brochures, follow-up emails, invitations to motivational meetings, etc. Let him know that is where you've invested your own money

"Sorry, the stock market is for losers. I'm in control of my own destiny now! I just need 3 more people in my downstream and for each of them to recruit three more people and I'm set. These are the best (soaps, vitamins, cell phone plans, seed packets, whatever) you can buy. Get onboard! I'll call you tomorrow with more info. Hey, what was your brother's email address? Great guy, I met him at your house 5 years ago. "
 
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So this guy isn't a "friend"; this is an acquaintance. Is there a problem saying "no" or do you string him along for the stories. I'm pretty firm with friends that sell product/services. Unless I ask, don't try to sell.
 
Hey, don't get me wrong here, I'm not letting him bug me anymore than him sending me solicitations from his LinkedIn account. I usually give him one word answers like "OK" or "Sure" when he asks if I've looked at his stuff. And I might spend all of 85 seconds looking at it before I laugh and log off. So it's not like a really hard sell. I think he knows I'm not buying any of this crap. I thought I'd share his excellent financial advice in case some of you are interested. . . . :)
 
Ah! I thought he was bugging you about buying. I can't even imagine asking family or friends to invest their money.
 
dtbach said:
Now its a sell for a 14% REIT bond. What a hoot! Must be for Greek holdings. I'll give him credit for keep trying to sucker me into this stuff.

Blog | Innovative Retirement Strategies, Inc.
Click to expand...

I get totally different number than he does for the IUL vs. S&P500 than he shows. So I twiddled the parameters in my IUL comparison spreadsheet https://www.dropbox.com/s/cbzvg74iyeyfwt6/SPX-monthly-1950-2013-and-IUL-test.xls , and finally got the same thing he showed.

He's is using an IUL with only 0.5% annual fees. Which is way too low--something like 1.5% is more like it. And he is showing the S&P500 investment WITHOUT dividends.

With these two things corrected, for the period 1996 to 2015, the IUL has cash value of $3,130 and the S&P500 is $4,555. Unless maybe his insurance company gives away the life insurance for free.

Not to mention that claim of a 14% note. Must be Puerto Rico and Greece bonds. Junk bonds aren't even paying that much.

But OTOH, he says you can borrow $100K against your $100K IRA, so there's that. Wonder if the IRS knows about that.
 
I guess I'd contemplate going further. I think most people on this forum know that anything offering 14% low/no risk is dishonest and the people who sell it make money by tricking their customers. I would find it personally unethical to knowingly do this and I would ask how any of my friends (or acquaintances) can do it in good conscience. I'd be super happy to have THAT conversation after which they probably wouldn't want to send me anything anymore.

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Early Retirement Forum mobile app
 
More on "friend who wants to sell IUL to me"

dtbach said:
Must be doing OK as he has a nice sailboat etc. . . .
Click to expand...

Just because someone has a sailboat and toys doesn't mean they aren't up to their ears in debt. I see it all the time. Funny thing but the guy w/o the sail boat who drives sensible cars is more than likely doing better than ok. Read the millionaire next door.

People like your friend feed off greed
1) if his deal was so great would he have to sell it?
2) you want life insurance - buy some term and invest the savings

Tell him get lost...


Sent from my iPad using Early Retirement Forum.
 
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dtbach said:
I have no idea as I won't go near any of that with a 100 foot pole. I'm sure they are loaded with fees, etc.

And he has a yacht "but where are the customers yachts??"
Click to expand...
Tell him to deed you 50% ownership in his yacht, right now, as in today, as a trusted full partner, and then you'll be happy to take his sales pitch seriously.>:D

Then enjoy this cartoon starring you as the Roadrunner. Beep Beep !

 
My theory is that the OP is "listening" :facepalm: to his sales pitch to keep peace as the OP's DW and his DW are very good friends. Kinda like girl scout cookie buying time among friends and family. But the girl scout cookies do taste good :).
 
Speculator said:
I'd let him take me to dinner and talk about whatever it is he needs to discuss. It wouldn't cost me anything and he'd think he was accomplishing something.
Click to expand...
I'd have to be really hungry and really broke for that to seem attractive--at all.
 
petershk said:
I guess I'd contemplate going further. I think most people on this forum know that anything offering 14% low/no risk is dishonest and the people who sell it make money by tricking their customers. I would find it personally unethical to knowingly do this and I would ask how any of my friends (or acquaintances) can do it in good conscience. I'd be super happy to have THAT conversation after which they probably wouldn't want to send me anything anymore.

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Early Retirement Forum mobile app
Click to expand...

That is what bothers me about him. We had enough talks about markets/finances that I know darn well he should know (and most likely does) that you can't have 14% payout and safety in the same vehicle. Otherwise, the world would be beating a huge path to it.
 
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