National Debt

[bosco]

Canadian tax rate calculator by province

http://www.ey.com/GLOBAL/content.nsf/Canada/Tax_-_Calculators_-_2005_Personal_Tax

 

[uncledrz]

The cost, as many here know could be as high as $10,000 per year before deductables for a couple or family.  A healthy couple with Blue Cross, with acceptable deductables is about $358 per month. The government needs to correct the legal system in order to limit liabilities so the doctors and hospitals, do not have to pay so much in insurances. This may help the costs. The lawyers however, will never let that happen.


SWR

SWR
I think the cost for a couple is closer to 8-900 a month for bc/bs coverage, unless you're in a group policy, then somewhat, but not much less. That's based on actual quotes.
Higher deductible HSA type insurance is in the 300 range per month, but deductible $5,000.
Agree the government could help with cost, but never very comfortable in seeing it get into anything (massive inefficiencies). Standarized insurance, price publication (a la Aetna's recent move), would help. I'd rather be healthy.
Uncledrz

 

[ShokWaveRider]

Canadian tax rate calculator by province

http://www.ey.com/GLOBAL/content.nsf/Canada/Tax_-_Calculators_-_2005_Personal_Tax

This is for single not joint income I assume. (Huband and wife would split all joint dividends and interest)

SWR

 

[dougdo]

What most Americans (or even Canadians) don't realize when comparing US and Canadian taxes is that US payroll taxes are MUCH higher. Social security and medicare are over 12%, right? Payroll taxes for the employee in Canada are a few percentage points. For low and moderate income earners that more than makes up for the higher income taxes. Much of the federal (and some provincial) sales taxes are given back to low and moderate earners in the form of rebates.

That said, I'm all for higher taxes when it leads to a more equitable fairer society (and when they're spent well which is always debateable but overall I feel I get good value for my taxes). We could use a few more taxes in Canada (and lower the regressive sales tax). For example, we should introduce an inheritance tax. Canada is the only major western nation without one.

 

[Mr._johngalt]

What most Americans (or even Canadians) don't realize when comparing US and Canadian taxes is that US payroll taxes are MUCH higher. Social security and medicare are over 12%, right? Payroll taxes for the employee in Canada are a few percentage points. For low and moderate income earners that more than makes up for the higher income taxes. Much of the federal (and some provincial) sales taxes are given back to low and moderate earners in the form of rebates.

That said, I'm all for higher taxes when it leads to a more equitable fairer society (and when they're spent well which is always debateable but overall I feel I get good value for my taxes). We could use a few more taxes in Canada (and lower the regressive sales tax). For example, we should introduce an inheritance tax. Canada is the only major western nation without one.

More taxes? Great idea. Why didn't I think of that?

JG

 

[ShokWaveRider]

What most Americans (or even Canadians) don't realize when comparing US and Canadian taxes is that US payroll taxes are MUCH higher. Social security and medicare are over 12%, right? Payroll taxes for the employee in Canada are a few percentage points. For low and moderate income earners that more than makes up for the higher income taxes. Much of the federal (and some provincial) sales taxes are given back to low and moderate earners in the form of rebates.

That said, I'm all for higher taxes when it leads to a more equitable fairer society (and when they're spent well which is always debateable but overall I feel I get good value for my taxes). We could use a few more taxes in Canada (and lower the regressive sales tax). For example, we should introduce an inheritance tax. Canada is the only major western nation without one.

DougGo:

What I have to figure out this/next year is exactly how the Canadian Taxes work. In the US we file as "Married Filing Joint" In Canada I think Everyone files a separate return, married folk simply file them together and list each other on the form. I will get the TaxCut software next year and go for broke.

I do not fully agree with you about income taxes though, as last year we paid minimal tax in the US, and then when I did a rudamentary calculations using the website you posted, it was 10 fold in Canada! Yes 10 fold. This was not a full and proper tax return comparison though. I just took our investment income and plugged it into the calculator and then did our taxes in Turbo Tax. There was no competition at all. As all our income is from interest at the moment, as opposed to dividends from stock. The Tax rate was about 30% in Canada for us. In the US it worked out 15% (ish), and we could deduct all sorts of things in the USA compared to Canada. (Evergreen tax credits, US Stock Losses from previous years, Charity in the USA, etc.)

This is a great topic, Canadian Versus US taxes and I think we should discuss it in depth, but this topic is really digressing now. Anyone got any more info on this (Apples for Apples)?

SWR

 

[bosco]

This is for single not joint income I assume. (Huband and wife would split all joint dividends and interest)

SWR

yes, no joint returns in Canada.

In Canada, it really pays for each spouse to have approximately equal income. If one earns the lion's share, the taxes are much higher.

Also, cap gains are far better than ordinary income. This is way many consider RRSP's (Canadian version of IRAs) to be a ripoff.

 

[ShokWaveRider]

It would be no problem splitting ours as it is all in both names.

SWR

 

[bosco]

It would be no problem splitting ours as it is all in both names.

SWR

Canadian taxes are much more graduated than US taxes. The net result of this is 2 people with 1/2 the income pay much less tax than one person with all the income.

I think investing for capital gains is much more important in Canada than the US. As is paying down mortgages since they all tend to be variable rate, require periodic refinancing (the bank won't take the risk, but will put it all on you). Mortgages are not tax-deductible.

All of this, in my mind, adds up to RRSPs not being as good of a deal as IRAs.

There are implications in the US/Canada tax treaty as well. I'm going to need to become more versed in it since I have a lot of IRA and 457 money in the US.

 

[WanderALot]

What most Americans (or even Canadians) don't realize when comparing US and Canadian taxes is that US payroll taxes are MUCH higher. Social security and medicare are over 12%, right? Payroll taxes for the employee in Canada are a few percentage points. For low and moderate income earners that more than makes up for the higher income taxes. Much of the federal (and some provincial) sales taxes are given back to low and moderate earners in the form of rebates.

I believe the employee payroll taxes are 7.65%. 6.2% for SS and 1.45% for Medicare. SS has a ceiling of around $90K, Medicare doesn't have a ceiling. The employer also pays 7.65%.

 

[dougdo]

I've never been married but my understanding in Canada is that married people can file either separately or together, whatever works best to their advantage. I could be wrong on this though. I'm surprised this has never been mentioned as a solution to the so-called "marriage penalty" in the US. Instead they just keep raising the amount married couples can deduct which does 2 things: reduces the "penalty" for married couples when both spouses have similar incomes AND increases the "bonus" for married couples where one partner makes most of the income.

I'm no absolute expert on the 2 countries taxes but all I wanted to say to compare was that you can't compare apples to oranges. Not only are the tax rates different but so are the way taxes are structured. Another example other than the payroll taxes is that only 50% of capital gains are taxed in Canada whereas in the US 100% of your capital gain is taxed albeit possibly at a lower rate with the changes a few years back.

Plus I believe we get good value for our taxes in Canada. If I lived in the USA, I couldn't have affored to do ER because of having to pay for medical insurance for example. without medical insurance through my job,

 

[sgeeeee]

. . .Plus I believe we get good value for our taxes in Canada. . . .

This is a point that seems to be lost in most of the tax debates in the US. What do you get for the money? A 75% tax rate could be a good deal if the benefits were great enough.

 

[wabmester]

A 75% tax rate could be a good deal if the benefits were great enough.

75%?  Those would have to be damn good benefits.  I'm talking supermodels, fast cars, and unlimited use of Air Force 1.

 

[sgeeeee]

75%?  Those would have to be damn good benefits.  I'm talking supermodels, fast cars, and unlimited use of Air Force 1.

Okay. That's what I meant.

 

[bosco]

I've never been married but my understanding in Canada is that married people can file either separately or together, whatever works best to their advantage. I could be wrong on this though.

No offense, but I think you are wrong on this. I'm dealing with this problem right now. Actually, it is much more complex than that for me (I have dual taxation and residency issues as well). Way too much to go into tonight. Besides, we're way beyond beer, and the single malt is speaking to me....

You always file singly in Canada. There are tax implications that relate to your partner's earnings, but you still have to file singly. There is no such thing as filing jointly. That's why it is good to equalize income with your spouse...because your spouse is filing singly, and better to pay taxes on two $40,000 incomes than one $80,000 one, given how graduated the tax structure is.

 

[Mr._johngalt]

This is a point that seems to be lost in most of the tax debates in the US.  What do you get for the money?  A 75% tax rate could be a good deal if the benefits were great enough.

I disagree completely. IT's just a bigger ball and chain. Benefits trough
higher taxes? Dream on.

JG

 

[moghopper]

Spoken like a true Ayn Rand fan!

I've seen how well my taxes get used at the DMV. I don't need more benefits like that.

 

[sgeeeee]

I disagree completely.  IT's just a bigger ball and chain.  Benefits trough
higher taxes?  Dream on.

JG

This is the knee-jerk "no tax is a good tax" response. It takes no thought. Just mention the word "tax" and the response comes from a certain group that has drank the right wing kool-aid.

My previous post didn't suggest adding a tax, or an acceptable tax/benefit requirement, or any specific benefits. I simply pointed out that being against any tax without considering any benefit is simple minded and incomplete. Thank-you for confirming that there really are people that simple-minded.

 

[HFWR]

My view is that the government has shown no competance in managing the budget (i.e. our hard-earned money) or in spending it wisely; therefore, I'm not inclined to want high taxes/spending.

"Should five percent appear too small, be thankful I don't take it ALL..."

George Harrison/The Beatles

 

[sgeeeee]

My view is that the government has shown no competance in managing the budget (i.e. our hard-earned money) or in spending it wisely; therefore, I'm not inclined to want high taxes/spending.

"Should five percent appear too small, be thankful I don't take it ALL..."

George Harrison/The Beatles

Yeah. Nobody likes taxes. The government gets it all wrong. All the politicians want is more. Everybody agrees on this.

But that's the problem. We can't have a serious discussion of what we are getting for our tax dollar and whether we could get what we need in a more efficient manner. I mean it's not like industry avoids buying $500 hammers or spending millions on programs that are . . . well, stupid. Large organizations are not as efficient as smaller ones. But sometimes there are benefits to large organizational efforts and that requires large organizations.

 

[HFWR]

Well, I don't necessarily "dislike" taxes. I'm more Hamiltonian than Jeffersonian, in the sense that without a federal government with some "teeth", we would have never grown into the nation we are.

There are too many politicians beholden to too many interest groups, whilst the citizenry sleeps...

I'd be thrilled to hear a REAL debate of the issues, rather than the "shout-you-down" crap that passes for dialogue, both in the media and in politics. But pragmatists don't seem to get far in politics these days...