NEWSFLASH: Bernstein slams early retirement!!!

[razztazz]

. I think if you did an audit of people's lives, you would find opportunities lost (even for the more successful folks on this site) and it had little to do with luck.

When  everybody always knows beforehand how things will turn out based on their choices,  and everybody has the same menu to choose from, then your  position would hold.

Otherwise, all the choice making and opportunity taking is a roll of the dice.  Everything is mostly luck EVEN when you work hard and strive and take opportunities that are presented. (Of course you cannot take the oportunities that are not presented to you.)  If you do not control the outcome from thr begining you are just -there-.  There are more hard working striving smart ambitious people out there who will never do more than make a living. Maybe a great living but just a living. There will be no mega wealth for them and that is what we are discussing here. Not grandma's old saws about "trying hard" Unless you champion clairvoyance along with work.

I believe...

Uh huh. I thought so. Beliving makes it so. Counteracts all the things that are beyond one's own control

 

[razztazz]

Never met a rich person who didn't work - and I know plenty. I know there are some people who inherited their wealth, but an awful lot of people who worked hard for it too. I know Bill Gates didn't make his pile all by himself, but how many 100+ hour weeks do you think he logged getting there? And how many people would have quit long before he did? There is not one person on this board who will ever be worth $billion because every single one of us would retire long before then. Life is about choices and consequences, and yes, some luck. But driven people can overcome bad luck whereas others let circumstances get the better of them.

I also know an awful lot of lazy people who spend most of their time bitching about how much money everyone else has. They'll never be rich because they think the game is rigged and someone else is holding them back - sounds familiar, huh?

Once again somebody responds to an entirely different conversation that the one I am holding

And I doubt you know ANY of the rich people we have been discussin here. Satistcially it's all but impossible.

You know working people. That's who you know.

 

[Mr._johngalt]

So let The Rich do it. They get all the money.  They ought to be worth it.

And somebody else  can do the thinking.  Doesn't have to be the Government Protected Crowd. Are you saying it is they and ONLY they who can think?

You can call people whiners when  they dont agree with you, if you wnat but that only makes you: A) A transparent grouch  or B) Wrong again

I am a grouch but seldom wrong How about a metaphor
(razztazz, you could look it up) . In one of my fav. movies
('The Edge') Anthony Hopkins character says "Most people who die
in the wilderness fail to do the one thing that could save their life.
Thinking!" It's the same with ER, and dare I say it?...............in many
cases, success in life generally.

JG

JG

 

[Mr._johngalt]

Once again somebody responds to an entirely different conversation that the one I am holding

And I doubt you know ANY of the rich people we have been discussin here. Satistcially it's all but impossible.

You know working people. That's who you know.

Man, what are you smokin' ?? I know lots of rich people, some older than me and almost all hard workers; still working in many cases.
BTW, I don't know what rich people you are "discussin" nor do I care.

Get a grip man!

Elvis has left the building..............

JG

 

[SteveR]

Nobody minds working when they are working for themselves... and guiding their laborers to more and more profit for themselves, and for this I say 'have at it.'  But it is those governmental policies, put in place by the wealthy, that prevent the rest of the population from achieving the same level of success.  That is where the problem lies and where it has lied for thousands of years.  No normal people are necessarily against working hard... they are against working hard when the deck is purposefully stacked against them and virtually requires such service be provided to those who control the resources and the law.

How about a more specific example of what you are saying here? Who is stacking the deck against you and in what way?

 

[Gone4Good]

Once again somebody responds to an entirely different conversation that the one I am holding

And I doubt you know ANY of the rich people we have been discussin here. Satistcially it's all but impossible.

You know working people. That's who you know.

Me thinks you are a "troll"

"You know working people. That's who you know."  And what do you know?  I never said I knew any of the people mentioned in this thread, and did not know you were defining "rich" to mean all but 5 people on the planet.   I know (and work with) plenty of people pulling down 8 figures a year and one person who pulled in 9 last year.  

"an entirely different conversation that the one I am holding" - arrogant little f***er, aren't you?

You might be tolerable if only your posts held even a shred of practical value.  You may as well be arguing how many rich people can dance on the head of peasant.  As far as I can tell the only thing you've managed to contribute is to hijack a thread about Bernstein's thoughts on retiring early (check the topic of the conversation "you are holding") to rail against some perceived social injustice.  The jury is still out on whether you even believe any of the drivel you are spouting (I'm doubtful).  It's a mystery how anything you've said will be of any help to anyone here - making your point, whatever it may be, completely pointless.

 

[razztazz]

This "Oh the poor oppressed working class!" does nothing for me.

Yes, I have no love for te "knuckle dragging class" either. We could illiminate poverty in one generation if we just stopped the breeding.

But what does even less for me is hearing people of great wealth and their dupes and useful idiots of the cosseted middle class whining about how unfair it is to pay taxes to support the system that allowed them to be rich without working. .Even tho they are still rich after taxes. So how are they hurt? These cocksuckers want everything socialized except their profits. THAT's the capitalism that even Adam Smith warned about

 

[haha]

"an entirely different conversation that the one I am holding" - arrogant little f***er, aren't you?

All in agreement say Aye! Aye!

Ha

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

And I doubt you know ANY of the rich people we have been discussin here. Satistcially it's all but impossible.

Well *I* do! AND I can spell!

All of the people mentioned, whether I know them or not, not only have at least one good skill and use it well, but they also took chances and made the best of their opportunities.

We've had this conversation before, but here it is again.

Clearly someone with no arms and legs isnt going to win a gold medal at the olympics. Goals have to be realistic. Just as clearly, I imagine most of us know someone who isnt the brightest bulb in the lamp but started a business or worked their butt off and did well for themselves and their family. I'm sure we all also know a very smart but unmotivated or overly cautious person who has gone nowhere near as far as they should have.

You make a lot of your own luck, you also need to be motivated and make the best of your opportunities. On one side is failure. On the other is success. The level of that success or failure IS frequently magnified, sometimes substantially, by sheer luck and happenstance.

I can, for example, trace my early retirement to looking up in the parking lot at the Natick Mall and seeing a woman I went to high school with and actually remembering her name. To make a long story short, we went out for a long time and when she decided to move across the country to go get her graduate degree, I went along for an extended vacation, met up with a guy who used to work for me who mentioned that one of his customers was looking for someone like me, and that company's stock went stratospheric during the late 90's bull market.

Who knows what would have happened if I hadnt looked up before getting into my car...

But that random event was bolstered by good relationship building that had her remember and still like me, the guy I ran into on the west coast feeling like he owed me a favor, followed by a lot of hard work, continuous employment, smart investing, and taking the chance of walking out the door as a young guy with a lot of years of retirement ahead of me.

Its all luck? I dont $#%$#ing think so.

 

[wabmester]

All in agreement say Aye! Aye!

Speaking of GroupThink, is this a GroupLynching? The guy is entitled to his opinions. And like many (formerly) here, he seems willing to go down in flames holding them. Is it really necessary to drive these wedges?

 

[Gone4Good]

Speaking of GroupThink, is this a GroupLynching? The guy is entitled to his opinions. And like many (formerly) here, he seems willing to go down in flames holding them. Is it really necessary to drive these wedges?

Don't mind his opinions, the more the merrier. He can express himself forcefully without being a jackass though. Example:

But most of what you post seems to indicate that you were a failed, marginal, always one step from bankruptcy "business man" who, even with all your business knowledge, never knew how to handle or money. Some businessman. So your true knowledge of business and economics might be make-pretend rather than real.

 

[yakers]

Well *I* do!  AND I can spell!

All of the people mentioned, whether I know them or not, not only have at least one good skill and use it well, but they also took chances and made the best of their opportunities.

Well,  I have a different take. At least 50% of the rich folks inherited their wealth. I am not against individuals getting richly rewarded for their productivity. I do hold to a high inheritance tax, it is a good source of income, keeps the next generation functional and helps prevent revolutions. Now folks who inherit money still have to hold on to it. The Europeans and Chineese have tales of families getting rich and then losing it in a couple generations. Thats OK too but amassing too much money/power is not good (IMHO) for the society and maybe not even the holders.
I am in agreement with Warren Buffet that I already "won the lottery" by being born in the US. Think about wealth around the world too.

 

[laurence]

Speaking of GroupThink, is this a GroupLynching? The guy is entitled to his opinions. And like many (formerly) here, he seems willing to go down in flames holding them. Is it really necessary to drive these wedges?

hmm, well, while I wholeheartedly support razztazz's right to express himself fully, we must all expect the slings and arrows when we take a minority opinion, especially when taken with such an....agressive...attitude. I think a sum. thesis by razz at this point clearly stating his point, and what (if anything) we should do about it would be most helpful at this juncture. I would be curious for details such as: at what point does some one get considered wealthy, because several people interjected they knew wealthy people and razz shot them down as not wealthy enough. Also, what government programs made the wealthiest people in America rich (I know about Ross Perot, but Microsoft and Dell?).

 

[Gone4Good]

OK, here are a couple...

Insurance companies are required to put up hundreds of thousands of dollars of deposits with each state insurance commission.  

Banks are nearly impossible to start without millions of dollars in capital to meet the required FDIC rules.  

Anyone want to make a deposit at the bank of davew894? Maybe you'd like davew894 to insure your house?

There are good reasons why some of these restrictions exist. Not all of them are to screw the little guy even if they do create barriers to entry.

 

[wabmester]

Also, what government programs made the wealthiest people in America rich (I know about Ross Perot, but Microsoft and Dell?).   

Are you watching what's going on with the Katrina clean-up?    Many people were immobilized by poverty in NOLA.   So, what did we do?   We offered them $60B in aid, but all of it is going to businessmen who bought their congressmen.   The "right" thing to do would have been to ensure that a large share of that tax-payer moolah went to NOLA locals who could clean up their own community.

I'm willing to bet that a LARGE chunk of that $60B ends up in the pockets of those already on the Forbes 400 list.

 

[laurence]

Are you watching what's going on with the Katrina clean-up? Many people were immobilized by poverty in NOLA. So, what did we do? We offered them $60B in aid, but all of it is going to businessmen who bought their congressmen. The "right" thing to do would have been to ensure that a large share of that tax-payer moolah went to NOLA locals who could clean up their own community.

I'm willing to bet that a LARGE chunk of that $60B ends up in the pockets of those already on the Forbes 400 list.

Yes, that's true, there is a lot of that going on COUGH-Haliburton!-COUGH, but I'm just saying there are still people doing it the old fashioned way, stealing earning it!

 

[Gone4Good]

Davew894 is perfectly capable of handling such business.  I've been in the insurance industry for years and I could generate plenty of meaningful business right now... and save people some money.  Only thing I am missing is $20 million.

Living in the US (the land of the free), I guess we'll never know.

Not with my money you wouldn't

 

[maddythebeagle]

Even tho they are still rich after taxes. So how are they hurt?  These cocksuckers want everything socialized except their profits.  THAT's the capitalism  that even Adam Smith warned about

Your colorful use of language, certainly doesnt help anyone believe your point. Who is Adam Smith? Is he also a Troll?

 

[Gone4Good]

. . . support the system that allowed them to be rich without working.

Please, enlighten me. Who exactly are you talking about? Name names. For every Paris Hilton there is a Michael Dell. Who are all of these people who are "rich without working".

 

[MasterBlaster]

Jeez:

reading through a number of previous posts I am amazed at the conspiracy theories as well as the general level of socialist/re-distributionist thinking here.

I would have thought this forum to be much more conservative considering that many posters have relatively large stashes to support their early retirement lifestyle.

Bite the hand that feeds you or what ?

 

[wabmester]

Bite the hand that feeds you or what ?

Probably driven by guilt and/or compassion. If you're in the top percentile or so, once in while you think "there, but for the grace of luck, go I."

 

[haha]

Speaking of GroupThink, is this a GroupLynching?   The guy is entitled to his opinions.    And like many (formerly) here, he seems willing to go down in flames holding them.    Is it really necessary to drive these wedges?

Guilty as charged. I thought of this a bit earlier myself. I did just what I was warning about.

I am sorry.

ha

 

[wabmester]

Eh, it's all just entertainment. I hope nobody takes this stuff too seriously....

 

[tozz]

Hijacked or not, this has been a fascinating thread.

 

[laurence]

Hijacked or not, this has been a fascinating thread.

I've enjoyed it! Far more interesting than a discussion of SWR. razz and dave should be commended for being the sacrificial pincushions conversational trailblazers for our regulars.