Now watch gasoline prices can you say 4 dollars a gallon

Canada is also not a state -- it is a country.

I think he is talking about the Red States.

Bpp (ducking.)
 
bearkeley said:
Oil is not a major source of electric genertation in the U.S. it comes in at 1.9% just behind "other". Get an education.

Source US Energy Information Agency
Click to expand...

How does that make it an invalid point?

In any case this discussion was about boycotting petroleum companies. They for the most part are the same ones controlling the natural gas supply as well which is the second largest fuel for electric generation.

All of that coal that is number one in electric generation is transported and mined by trains and trucks burning diesel for the most part. On roads made of asphalt.

Since demand is higher than supply leading to the present higher prices any boycott is doomed to failure. If you don’t buy it someone else is waiting to.
 
Lazarus said:
How does that make it an invalid point?

In any case this discussion was about boycotting petroleum companies. They for the most part are the same ones controlling the natural gas supply as well which is the second largest fuel for electric generation.

All of that coal that is number one in electric generation is transported and mined by trains and trucks burning diesel for the most part. On roads made of asphalt.

Since demand is higher than supply leading to the present higher prices any boycott is doomed to failure. If you don’t buy it someone else is waiting to.
Click to expand...

The fact that we have little women and men driving the likes of suvs that get 13 mpg pick up trucks like the ford f150 4x4 which gets 12 mpg and is the best selling vehicle in the usa
and even drive cars with 6 cyl and big horsepower instead of 4 cyl cars is a big reason for higher prices. We use too much and the darn stuff is under the ground of countries where the people do not really like us. 70+ a barrel, heck the saudis and Iranians are laughing at ALL AMERICANS!!!

Now why would you buy a 6 cyl toyota camry that gets 26 mpg instead of the 4 cyl that gets 34 mpg? Why would you buy a suv that gets 13 mpg instead of a station wagon like the subaru legacy that gets 30mpg?? IGNORANCE and the american idea that I Can Buy What I Want, It IS A Free Country!

I say its all dumb, selfish and not helpful that we waste so much of the oil and send so much money to the saudis and others in the ME who spawned the 9/11 hijackers.

Think before you buy your next car.
 
vagabond said:
I recently opened my eyes to the world of folding bikes. Although I bought a touring type folder that doesn't fold as small, you can get folders that fold real compact that can be taken on public transportation. I have been experimenting by going with my bike folded to the DMV, several supermarkets and even a not too busy restaurant. So far so good.
For some of you, you can ride your bike to the train/bus, folded it up. At your destination, unfold it, ride it to work, fold it up and take it with you to your office.
Click to expand...

When I took a trip on the Amtrak in January, there were a number of people with Dahon folding bikes. Amtrak now allows you to stash the folding bikes without going through a big packing procedure.

Our city buses have bike carriers on the front which are well used.
 
Dahon makes some very nice models of folding bikes - they have a whole line, not just the cheapest model you sometimes see in discount stores. We've been tempted (for our RV).

Audrey
 
Tell me more about folding bikes today. I looked into them about ten years ago but that is long fogotten. Where can I find out more? Reviews?

Thanks.

Ed
 
samclem said:
I've never met a conspiracy theorist who had ever worked at mid- to upper levels in a big organization.  Anyone familiar with the way things work knows that almost nothing stays secret for long, and that any illicit collusion that might exist (whether it is between "big oil" and "the trilateral commission" or  between Bill and Hilda in the next cubicle) survives only up to the moment that the best interest of ANY party is served by going public.  That is not a formula for a long-lasting partnership.   

But some folks will always see hidden forces at work where most folks just see "Mr Market."
Click to expand...

I happen to work for a Government agency in NY, at the mid-management level for the past 25 plus years that "regulates" one of the largest industries in the  world

If you think there is no collusion nor any influence over Government big wigs from large industries, you are kidding your self.

The industry "regulates" us, not us the industry.  In meeting with the head scumbags honchos of these industries, they tell you all sorts of BS as to how they **** serve the public, but when you really see what they actually do, the public is served like a bull services a cow.

The oil money goes to the companies, not the countries where the oil is drilled. Oil is a big big industry, racking in big time bucks, and they along with a media that serves their interest will brain wash us into buying those huge SUV's fast cars to eat more fuel, to rack in the bucks. Media is very good at playing with your brain, they hardwire all sorts of thoughts into it, most of us cannot escape it.


Yes there are conspiracies, its not a theory, its a fact. They are forged in offices located in NY and London, Hong Kong and other big towns where scumbags sit, drink and think of ways to pull strings and suck the blood out of billions of drones drunk on media crap.

Conspiricies need good PR, hence control of the media, its a very subtle control.   They need politicians to not push the ticket against their actions.   Believe it, there are conspiricies among industries out there, no different than the conspiricies seen perpetrated by organized crime.  Oil, banking, insurance, media, financial services, drug companies, these are the biggies on this earth, and they have the means to buy whole governments lock stock and barrel.

jug
 
jug said:
I happen to work for a Government agency in NY, at the mid-management level for the past 25 plus years that "regulates" one of the largest industries in the  world

If you think there is no collusion nor any influence over Government big wigs from large industries, you are kidding your self.

The industry "regulates" us, not us the industry.  In meeting with the head scumbags honchos of these industries, they tell you all sorts of BS as to how they **** serve the public, but when you really see what they actually do, the public is served like a bull services a cow.

The oil money goes to the companies, not the countries where the oil is drilled. Oil is a big big industry, racking in big time bucks, and they along with a media that serves their interest will brain wash us into buying those huge SUV's fast cars to eat more fuel, to rack in the bucks. Media is very good at playing with your brain, they hardwire all sorts of thoughts into it, most of us cannot escape it.


Yes there are conspiracies, its not a theory, its a fact. They are forged in offices located in NY and London, Hong Kong and other big towns where scumbags sit, drink and think of ways to pull strings and suck the blood out of billions of drones drunk on media crap.

Conspiricies need good PR, hence control of the media, its a very subtle control.   They need politicians to not push the ticket against their actions.   Believe it, there are conspiricies among industries out there, no different than the conspiricies seen perpetrated by organized crime.  Oil, banking, insurance, media, financial services, drug companies, these are the biggies on this earth, and they have the means to buy whole governments lock stock and barrel.

jug
Click to expand...

Hey jug

Hit 3 bucks a gallon here in nj today. My 4 banger got 37 mpg on my trip to north carolina last week, I gotta get out of nj sooner than later.

I still say 4 bucks by july, heck in philly there are no gas signs at many stations the new ethanol blends are still getting set at the terminals and there are some slow downs in getting the terminals up and running then the idiot american panics fills up his car when he still has 3/4 of a tank and whammo shortages and price hikes!!

Geesh.
 
newguy88 said:
Hey jug

Hit 3 bucks a gallon here in nj today. My 4 banger got 37 mpg on my trip to north carolina last week, I gotta get out of nj sooner than later.

I still say 4 bucks by july, heck in philly there are no gas signs at many stations the new ethanol blends are still getting set at the terminals and there are some slow downs in getting the terminals up and running then the idiot american panics fills up his car when he still has 3/4 of a tank and whammo shortages and price hikes!!

Geesh.
Click to expand...

Its wild out there, and we are actually gassing up with our eyes glazed over like a deer looking at a truck coming down on him.

The oil bigwigs know this, they know we have no power and are simply taking it in the butt as long as they are willing to stick it in.  Sooner or later, as the price may very well hit 4 bucks, then the likes of Schumer, who gets the wink from the big boys, will come out screaming about conducting an investigation.

Schumer by the way is another phoney.  When the Staten Island ferry crashed on a sunny day going full throttle into a pier killing 10  and injuring dozens, Schumer was so quiet, it was amazing.

The reason was very simple, his wife, Iris Weinshall was and still in commisionor of transportation in NYC.  No investigation there among the big boys, but plenty of little fish were hung out to dry.  And some here think that government is not corrupt. ho ho ho. ya wanna buy a bridge
jug
 
newguy88 said:
The fact that we have little women and men driving the likes of suvs that get 13 mpg pick up trucks like the ford f150 4x4 which gets 12 mpg and is the best selling vehicle in the usa
and even drive cars with 6 cyl and big horsepower instead of 4 cyl cars is a big reason for higher prices. We use too much and the darn stuff is under the ground of countries where the people do not really like us. 70+ a barrel, heck the saudis and Iranians are laughing at ALL AMERICANS!!!

Now why would you buy a 6 cyl toyota camry that gets 26 mpg instead of the 4 cyl that gets 34 mpg? Why would you buy a suv that gets 13 mpg instead of a station wagon like the subaru legacy that gets 30mpg?? IGNORANCE and the american idea that I Can Buy What I Want, It IS A Free Country!

I say its all dumb, selfish and not helpful that we waste so much of the oil and send so much money to the saudis and others in the ME who spawned the 9/11 hijackers.

Think before you buy your next car.
Click to expand...

No doubt reducing the demand with more efficient cars would help. I think world demand is rising fast enough that it will quickly absorb whatever we save. It doesn't look like we can expect much increase in supply eather.

Consider how much money is wasted on cars other than the fuel expense. Trading too often, Leasing etc. Buying cars that don't match your needs well.

I have a 6Cylinder F150 2WD gets 18MPG. Not great milage, but not too bad for the size of truck. Wife has a 4Cylinder Honda Accord. Kids have 4Cylinder Kias.

Do I get any credit for a good overall fleet milage? (I have a reason to have the Pickup)

Gas does not seem expensive enough to keep people from buying large vehicles yet. I think it will have to get much higher to do that.
 
I have a very intel friend who loves to obsurb facts like a sponge. He knows people who know high level people in the reasearch area of our government. He has told me on several occasions that we have for a long time had the means to produce synthetic gas but this knowledge has been suspressed to keep the oil companies rich and powerfull and "we the people" lead to the pump like sheep.

I have not personally corraberated his information but I suspect the technology has been there for a long time to achieve that. After 9/11, I re-introduced myself to my bicycle and have been using it as my primary mode of transportation. Wish I had sold my car then. I would have saved over $4k in auto insurances plus another $1k on the car had I sold it.
 
vagabond said:
I have a very intel friend who loves to obsurb facts like a sponge. He knows people who know high level people in the reasearch area of our government. He has told me on several occasions that we have for a long time had the means to produce synthetic gas but this knowledge has been suspressed to keep the oil companies rich and powerfull and "we the people" lead to the pump like sheep.

I have not personally corraberated his information but I suspect the technology has been there for a long time to achieve that. After 9/11, I re-introduced myself to my bicycle and have been using it as my primary mode of transportation. Wish I had sold my car then. I would have saved over $4k in auto insurances plus another $1k on the car had I sold it.
Click to expand...

This is a very good point.

When you really think about it, just as many other compounds can be produced through using other sources there is more than likely no reason gasoline can be produced from abundant resources such as coal and by products and other organic sources that are very plentiful in the environment.

Its a matter of chemistry, but since the infra-structure are all set up around the world to suck oil from the earth, these well and other equiptment would be put out of business overnight while new plant or refurbished ones would be built to chemically refine other more obtainable resources.

Its much more expedient to keep controls on the price of oil through market manipulation in the bidding process than to do the right thing and look for other sources if indeed there is a shortage of oil in the ground.

There is much we dont know, but I do believe that the bidding in the oil commodities market is being heavily manipulated by large bidders coming in  and pushing the price up.  This process is the first step of any investigation.   To see who the actual bidders are, since they very well may be false entities establish by the oil producers themselves to pump things up

jug
 
The higher the better! Finally, some discouragement for owning those large vehicles!

Azanon

Wife's vehicle - 2004 VW Wagon Diesel (33/44)
My vehicle (bought yesterday) - 2007 Honda Fit Sport (31/37) :D
 
I have a very intel friend who loves to obsurb facts like a sponge. He knows people who know high level people in the reasearch area of our government. He has told me on several occasions that we have for a long time had the means to produce synthetic gas but this knowledge has been suspressed to keep the oil companies rich and powerfull and "we the people" lead to the pump like sheep.
Click to expand...

Here come the conspiracy theries... And you guys get to vote too !

They have aliens locked up to in a slave camp for aliens in Area 51. believe it, It is true !... my friend knows someone who knows !

Actually there is a degree of truth to the synthetic gas story and this is something that I have some degree of knowledge of. Gasoline can be made from coal which we have plenty of. Also methanol can be made from corn or other grains and can run (and is running) cars and trucks. Brazil has a well developed methanol program.

The rest of the story though, that your friend doesn't either know or doesn't want to know is that it still costs a lot more to produce alternate fuels than to use good old refined petroleum products. As the price continues to climb some of the alternates become economically attrative. I don't know about current economies of coal gasification. However back in the 70's when oil was near it's inflation adjusted peak coal gasification still cost 2 to 3 times what petroleum based gasoline cost.

The other thing about coal gasification is that Wyoming, Utah, and the Sierra club may not want vast streaches of  terrain to be strip mined so that you can drive your Hummer down to get a six pack. Massive quanities of water are also required for coal gasification. Water is in somewhat short suppy in the west so that is a huge obstical that must be overcome for coal gasification to meet the energy demands in very large quantities.

My personal opinion is that methonol production and coal gasification technologies are what we will use for energy sometime in the middle of the century and beyond.
 
You made some good points, Lazarus, in reference to other costs besides just the price of gas. One other point I'd like to add is people who drive fuel efficient cars (30+mpg) but put on in excess of 100 miles a day just to go to work. I find it interesting that they will ridicule those of us who have trucks or suvs (mine gets 19-20.5 mpg here in snow country) and yet I drive maybe 10 miles per day on avg while they're driving 10x more than I am. Sometimes it's not only the mpg but the actual miles a person puts on that adds to the problems of high oil prices.
I will add, though, that since hubby and I are mostly retired we don't feel the need for two 4-wheel drive vehicles anymore. We're looking at trading the almost 6 yr old suv for a new Toyota hybrid Camry. We'd go smaller (civic or corolla) but hubby is a big guy and needs a little more room for comfort.
 
Laurence said:
We should do a prediction thread like "The Price is Right" and have people predict the high water/oil mark for a barrel of oil and average price of a gallon of gas nationwide.  Have a cut off date of say, a week after Labor Day. ...
Click to expand...
That's called the oil future's market. CBOE beat you to it. ;)
 
Phew, leave this thread for a while and everybody is furiously making tinfoil hats! Was $10 Oil a few years ago part of the vast global conspiracy, too? I think Oil companies have been bribing McDonalds to push supersized meals so everbody would get fat and want mega cab trucks, it could happen!

Oil crashed through $75 today, do I hear $80?
 
kz said:
Sometimes it's not only the mpg but the actual miles a person puts on that adds to the problems of high oil prices.
Click to expand...

Well put kz!  It's not having a high mpg car or a high efficiency furnace or air conditioner or,or, or whatever.  It's about how much nonrenewable energy you suck up in aggregate that counts.

An acquaintance owns a big ole SUV because he likes the security of 4wd during our winters.  But he lives in a little condo only three miles from where he works.  The condo, with common walls on three sides and little square footage, heats and cools very efficiently.........tiny natural gas and electric bills.  He only fuels the SUV every three weeks or so.  How to be irked with him for owning the SUV! 

Every case should stand on it's own merit.
 
My brother-in-law works for two cruise lines and they use twin GE jet engines to power the ships.  His job is to convert the ships over to soybean fuels but you just can’t get enough of the stuff.  Until the infrastructure is built up we can’t really go anywhere.
Meanwhile China and India are buying up the crude at whatever price the market will bear.  We have the engineering ability to fix the problem but “oil’” and the save Alaska won’t allow anything to rain on the parade.
 
whats the story on all the oil canada has? cant we get more?
 
MasterBlaster said:
Brazil has a well developed methanol program.
Click to expand...

Which is fine for their fleet of cars (which is 10% the size of the US fleet) and it is made mostly (over 90%) of small (2.0L or less) 4 cylinder cars.

There is not enough sugar cane in the world to produce methanol for the entire american fleet of cars (mostly fuel guzzling 6-8 cylinders).

I think the solution for this problem will include some serious rethinking of the American "way of life".
 
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