Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 02-23-2015, 11:25 AM   #21
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Big_Hitter's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: In the fairway
Posts: 4,099
Quote:
Originally Posted by athena53 View Post
I'm a retired actuary (property-casualty, not life insurance)
FCAS or ACAS?
__________________

__________________
Swing hard, look up
Big_Hitter is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 02-23-2015, 11:59 AM   #22
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
nun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,836
Quote:
Originally Posted by robertf57 View Post
1+ I don't know much about non-retirement annuities at TIAA, but my "TIAA Traditional" is the only typical annuity I would consider. And in reality, it isn't very typical. I too am credited with 4.6% overall/year and the payout rate, if I took it at 59.5 IIRC, is north of 7%
Yes not surprisingly that's the same quote I got from TIAA for turning my TIAA Traditional accumulation into a single life annuity. TIAA Traditional isn't the most exciting part if my portfolio, but it's a fantastic steady performer with a guaranteed minimum annual growth of 3%
__________________

__________________
“So we beat on, boats against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past.”

Current AA: 65% Equity Funds / 20% Bonds / 7% Stable Value /3% Cash / 5% TIAA Traditional
Retired Mar 2014 at age 52, target WR: 0.0%,
Income from pension and rent
nun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2015, 06:37 AM   #23
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
nun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,836
Quote:
Originally Posted by nun View Post
Yes not surprisingly that's the same quote I got from TIAA for turning my TIAA Traditional accumulation into a single life annuity. TIAA Traditional isn't the most exciting part if my portfolio, but it's a fantastic steady performer with a guaranteed minimum annual growth of 3%
Of course TIAA-Traditional guaranteed annuity and the SPIAs TIAA-CREF sells are not actually "longevity insurance". My TIAA-Traditional account is in a 401a and has RMDs at age 70, but you can use it to buy an SPIA that will provide lifetime income, so that provides some insurance for later life. But they don't sell an insurance policy that will start to pay you income at....say... age 85.
__________________
“So we beat on, boats against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past.”

Current AA: 65% Equity Funds / 20% Bonds / 7% Stable Value /3% Cash / 5% TIAA Traditional
Retired Mar 2014 at age 52, target WR: 0.0%,
Income from pension and rent
nun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2015, 08:04 AM   #24
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
pb4uski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Vermont & Sarasota, FL
Posts: 16,475
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big_Hitter View Post
they are such a new product I haven't seen but maybe one or two insurers that offer them


I also don't know how they are priced so it's tough to tell if they are a good "deal" or not. I'll probably end up buying one when the time comes. The last thing I want to do is outlive my $$$$.
Isn't it just a SPIA with a deferred start? If so, I think they have been available for some time but just haven't sold in very significant numbers. It's just a SPDA but where the annuitization isn't optional so I suspect it is easier to price than an SPDA.
__________________
If something cannot endure laughter.... it cannot endure.
Patience is the art of concealing your impatience.
Slow and steady wins the race.
pb4uski is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2015, 08:06 AM   #25
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
pb4uski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Vermont & Sarasota, FL
Posts: 16,475
Quote:
Originally Posted by RetireAge50 View Post
If you buy an annuity it puts a price on your head. Something to think about.��
Something to think about...... under your tin foil hat!

I just saw an ad by an insurer for hit men just the other day.
__________________
If something cannot endure laughter.... it cannot endure.
Patience is the art of concealing your impatience.
Slow and steady wins the race.
pb4uski is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2015, 08:17 AM   #26
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 3,008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big_Hitter View Post
FCAS or ACAS?
FCAS.
__________________
athena53 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2015, 08:32 AM   #27
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
nun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,836
A big difference between longevity insurance and SPIAs is that the SPIA is immediate, no deferral. Also most annuity purchases at done inside IRAs etc and even if a deferred annuity is purchased RMDs will require income to be taken at 70.5 whereas true longevity insurance is just that, insurance that pays out at say age 85
__________________
“So we beat on, boats against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past.”

Current AA: 65% Equity Funds / 20% Bonds / 7% Stable Value /3% Cash / 5% TIAA Traditional
Retired Mar 2014 at age 52, target WR: 0.0%,
Income from pension and rent
nun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2015, 08:38 AM   #28
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
pb4uski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Vermont & Sarasota, FL
Posts: 16,475
That is why I qualified it with the term "deferred start". And I think of longevity insurance as that which does start at say age 85 and am aware that you could buy a SPIA that starts at RMD age in an IRA and it gets carved out of the RMD calculation.
__________________
If something cannot endure laughter.... it cannot endure.
Patience is the art of concealing your impatience.
Slow and steady wins the race.
pb4uski is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2015, 11:13 AM   #29
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Chuckanut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: West of the Mississippi
Posts: 6,337
The lack of inflation protection makes me leery of these things. Like others, I am buying my longevity insurance from Uncle Sam by taking SS at 70.
__________________
The worst decisions are usually made in times of anger and impatience.
Chuckanut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2015, 11:42 AM   #30
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Big_Hitter's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: In the fairway
Posts: 4,099
Quote:
Originally Posted by athena53 View Post
FCAS.
congrats - not many of you guys
__________________
Swing hard, look up
Big_Hitter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2015, 11:49 AM   #31
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Big_Hitter's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: In the fairway
Posts: 4,099
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuckanut View Post
The lack of inflation protection makes me leery of these things. Like others, I am buying my longevity insurance from Uncle Sam by taking SS at 70.
Have you factored in that the fund will run dry in 15 years?

Without legislation, payouts will be limited to about 75% of the current promise. I wouldn't be surprised if some of us get a big negative SS COLA.


The low hanging fruit would be the actuarial increase factors for late commencement or increasing SSNRA.
__________________
Swing hard, look up
Big_Hitter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2015, 12:01 PM   #32
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
2B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Houston
Posts: 4,330
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big_Hitter View Post
Have you factored in that the fund will run dry in 15 years?

Without legislation, payouts will be limited to about 75% of the current promise. I wouldn't be surprised if some of us get a big negative SS COLA.


The low hanging fruit would be the actuarial increase factors for late commencement or increasing SSNRA.
I have no doubt that everyone will get their full SS check. I just expect that the taxes on SS will increase and we'll have Medicare and SS payroll tax increases to cover what's needed.

I suspect the typical pol would not want to be blamed for slamming the seniors' SS. It's too active a voting block and it has always voted its pocket book.
__________________
The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane -- Marcus Aurelius
2B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2015, 12:05 PM   #33
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Big_Hitter's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: In the fairway
Posts: 4,099
Are you a "senior" if you were born in the 60s or 70s?


That's who they are going to stick it to. Simply raising the FICA tax rate won't be easy, they will have to cut payouts, somehow.
__________________
Swing hard, look up
Big_Hitter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2015, 12:19 PM   #34
Moderator Emeritus
aja8888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: The Woodlands, TX
Posts: 7,179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big_Hitter View Post
Are you a "senior" if you were born in the 60s or 70s?

That's who they are going to stick it to. Simply raising the FICA tax rate won't be easy, they will have to cut payouts, somehow.
It will be easier to gradually raise FICA tax than cut current SS payments. Extending full retirement age may also be a way to cut future payouts.

There are a basket full of tricks that creative politicians can use to make SS payments get reduced. They could also means test the process. Right now, payouts are taxed, but not at 100% yet, I believe.
__________________
......."Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the face." -- philosopher Mike Tyson.
aja8888 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2015, 04:42 PM   #35
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,820
Quote:
Originally Posted by aja8888 View Post
It will be easier to gradually raise FICA tax than cut current SS payments. Extending full retirement age may also be a way to cut future payouts.

There are a basket full of tricks that creative politicians can use to make SS payments get reduced. They could also means test the process. Right now, payouts are taxed, but not at 100% yet, I believe.
Yep, and the SS actuaries have calculated the financial impact of many of them.

Individual Changes Modifying Social Security

(and, yes, the current maximum taxable amount is 85% of the benefit)
__________________
Independent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2015, 04:47 PM   #36
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
pb4uski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Vermont & Sarasota, FL
Posts: 16,475
The shame is that there are a combination of various actions that they could take now that would save SS and while they would be unpopular with certain constituencies, they could be done without a lot of hardship. However, our politicians lack courage and just keep ignoring the problem but the longer that they fail to act the more extreme the impacts will be. Sad.

For example, when I was working I would have grumbled some but not been too upset if they lifted the taxable maximum particularly in exchange for a more financially strong SS for all.

I found this "game" interesting. http://www.actuary.org/content/play-...-security-game
__________________
If something cannot endure laughter.... it cannot endure.
Patience is the art of concealing your impatience.
Slow and steady wins the race.
pb4uski is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2015, 05:00 PM   #37
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Big_Hitter's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: In the fairway
Posts: 4,099
^ I solved 100% of the problem.
__________________
Swing hard, look up
Big_Hitter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2015, 05:05 PM   #38
Moderator Emeritus
aja8888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: The Woodlands, TX
Posts: 7,179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big_Hitter View Post
^ I solved 100% of the problem.
I got 100% too..big deal? Not...
__________________
......."Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the face." -- philosopher Mike Tyson.
aja8888 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2015, 05:08 PM   #39
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
pb4uski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Vermont & Sarasota, FL
Posts: 16,475
I was very surprised that eliminating the cap alone solved 100% of the problem... I suspect because it is really banging those with very high incomes compared to the current approach.

But my point is that there are some things that could be done that are relatively modest in the whole scheme of things but the longer they wait the more difficult it will be.
__________________
If something cannot endure laughter.... it cannot endure.
Patience is the art of concealing your impatience.
Slow and steady wins the race.
pb4uski is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2015, 05:35 PM   #40
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Big_Hitter's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: In the fairway
Posts: 4,099
breaking the cap violates one key principle of social insurance programs - the relationship between benefits and earnings


I got 100% by slashing benfits
__________________

__________________
Swing hard, look up
Big_Hitter is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Annuities & Longevity Insurance Onward FIRE and Money 3 02-28-2011 07:11 AM
Has anybody researched longevity annuities? tipster FIRE and Money 5 10-31-2008 09:19 AM
Scott Burns -- Longevity Risk intercst FIRE and Money 12 01-09-2005 11:54 AM
longevity insurance ats5g FIRE and Money 17 02-06-2004 08:28 AM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:00 PM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.