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Re: Planning to die broke
Old 02-19-2006, 12:46 PM   #61
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Re: Planning to die broke

Thats eaten up half of my dads golf time.

Speaking of which, I need to buy a crowbar today when i'm at home depot to separate those two so I can get in a little time with the little bunny...
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Re: Planning to die broke
Old 02-19-2006, 12:49 PM   #62
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Re: Planning to die broke

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheryl
George's point is a good one.* For myself, I realized in the last month or so that I have been very obsessed with the "money" part of FIRE - and so busy with spreadsheets and calculations that I* have not thought about the "how-to" or the What to do.

Sure, I have lots of great hobbies I want to pursue, travel, garden, etc. etc.* But these are just general ideas.* When I contemplate the reality of not getting up and going to work every day, I have a hard time imagining what I really will do.* Can I really fill the days with these activities that until now have been squeezed into evenings weekends and a few vacations??

I don't do change well, so it is going to be interesting.* *
I don't know if it will work the same way for you, but I found that on my recent, unexpectedly lengthy vacation, I had enough time and went at a leisurely enough pace that I had the time and mental "space" to really think about my life and discover what is missing in my current lifestyle. *I came to some conclusions about what is important to me and that some of the important stuff is sorely lacking in my life right now. *If I were FIREd, it would be much more feasible to make the changes I'd like to make, but I am still a working stiff.

IOW, I suspect that once you have sufficient time and a lack of pressure so that you can manage some introspection, you will figure out what has been missing in your life. *But I think that taking it easy and aviding simply filling up the time/distracting yourself is a necessary prerequisite.
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Re: Planning to die broke
Old 02-19-2006, 10:37 PM   #63
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Re: Planning to die broke

Sheryl
Quote:
Sure, I have lots of great hobbies I want to pursue, travel, garden, etc. etc.* But these are just general ideas.* When I contemplate the reality of not getting up and going to work every day, I have a hard time imagining what I really will do.* Can I really fill the days with these activities that until now have been squeezed into evenings weekends and a few vacations??

I don't do change well, so it is going to be interesting.* *
* *

brewer12345
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IOW, I suspect that once you have sufficient time and a lack of pressure so that you can manage some introspection, you will figure out what has been missing in your life. But I think that taking it easy and aviding simply filling up the time/distracting yourself is a necessary prerequisite.
Hi Guys... I am finding this question to be a very common one. We have people writing to us all the time saying the same thing. To be honest, I'm not sure I understand this perspective, because I enjoy time to myself, and I have a ton of interests and love to learn, travel, spend time with loved ones, volunteer and lots of etc.* ** *My problem is running out of time to do the things I want to do!* 8)

I guess what I am trying to say, is, that I don't understand what you are afraid of...* I'm sorry.. and I don't mean to have an 'attitude' - I just don't understand that fear.*

Would you be willing to share something that personal?*

I don't want to make assumptions here because they could be way out of the ballpark...

Thanks for any insight here on this issue... I certainly appreciate it..*

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Re: Planning to die broke
Old 02-20-2006, 09:36 AM   #64
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Re: Planning to die broke

Could it be a matter of discipline? That many retirees are simply not self-starters? Having worked all those years in a defined, structured system, driven by outside requirements, perhaps retirees who have not cultivated personal interests all along find themselves propelled out to sea, without a rudder.

To quote Mr. Greenspun (http://philip.greenspun.com) : "Ask a wage slave what he'd like to accomplish. Chances are the response will be something like "I'd start every day at the gym and work out for two hours until I was as buff as Brad Pitt. Then I'd practice the piano for three hours. I'd become fluent in Mandarin so that I could be prepared to understand the largest transformation of our time. I'd really learn how to handle a polo pony. I'd learn to fly a helicopter. I'd finish the screenplay that I've been writing and direct a production of it in HDTV.".....Suppose that the guy cashes in his investments and does retire. What do we find? He is waking up at 9:30 am, surfing the Web, sorting out the cable TV bill, watching DVDs, talking about going to the gym, eating Doritos, and maybe accomplishing one of his stated goals. "
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Re: Planning to die broke
Old 02-20-2006, 09:59 AM   #65
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Re: Planning to die broke

I think you're right, about needing to be a self-starter.... except I was a self-starter for my last ten years of work, self-employed.

I think I was unprepared for the steps needed to break free from paid work. So instead of doing the final clean up of paper work, I'm having some beer. What happened for me is one day deciding I wanted to retire, and then realizing I could right then, at 43. I expect to have it all sorted out when I'm 45 (15 months) and that's okay with me. Going to hike in some mountains and wait for my head to catch up. That's just how I do things and probably always will. INFP, if you are into those personality things. Philosophy major lawyer, into the poverty/homelessness issues. I can die broke, as this thread began, but I won't. Never tracked anything on a spreadsheet, but pencils still work. Going to try very hard to only check the port 4 times a year.

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Re: Planning to die broke
Old 02-20-2006, 10:12 AM   #66
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Re: Planning to die broke

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlogBlogger
Could it be a matter of discipline? That many retirees are simply not self-starters? Having worked all those years in a defined, structured system, driven by outside requirements, perhaps retirees who have not cultivated personal interests all along find themselves propelled out to sea, without a rudder.

To quote Mr. Greenspun (http://philip.greenspun.com) : "Ask a wage slave what he'd like to accomplish. Chances are the response will be something like "I'd start every day at the gym and work out for two hours until I was as buff as Brad Pitt. Then I'd practice the piano for three hours. I'd become fluent in Mandarin so that I could be prepared to understand the largest transformation of our time. I'd really learn how to handle a polo pony. I'd learn to fly a helicopter. I'd finish the screenplay that I've been writing and direct a production of it in HDTV.".....Suppose that the guy cashes in his investments and does retire. What do we find? He is waking up at 9:30 am, surfing the Web, sorting out the cable TV bill, watching DVDs, talking about going to the gym, eating Doritos, and maybe accomplishing one of his stated goals. "
I mentioned this before recently. I became a slug when i ER'd, at least at first. I totally didnt mind until the stuff I really should be getting to was piling up. Started making little lists and putting little reminders in my outlook calendar. That turned out to be enough structure for me to get priority stuff done in a timely manner without feeling too organized.

I still have a very strong resistance to anything timed or organized after years of living under the yoke. When my wife starts off on "Maybe next tuesday we can go to xyz and on friday we can do blah blah" I stick my fingers in my ears, start 'la la la'ing, and go to my special place.
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Re: Planning to die broke
Old 02-20-2006, 12:50 PM   #67
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Re: Planning to die broke

Quote:
Hi Guys... I am finding this question to be a very common one. We have people writing to us all the time saying the same thing. To be honest, I'm not sure I understand this perspective, because I enjoy time to myself, and I have a ton of interests and love to learn, travel, spend time with loved ones, volunteer and lots of etc.* ** *My problem is running out of time to do the things I want to do!* 8)

I guess what I am trying to say, is, that I don't understand what you are afraid of...* I'm sorry.. and I don't mean to have an 'attitude' - I just don't understand that fear.*

Would you be willing to share something that personal?*

Akaisha
I don't mind sharing, but am not sure I can be coherent.* This quote sort of summarizes what I'm feeling:

Quote:
"Ask a wage slave what he'd like to accomplish. Chances are the response will be something like "I'd start every day at the gym and work out for two hours until I was as buff as Brad Pitt. Then I'd practice the piano for three hours. I'd become fluent in Mandarin so that I could be prepared to understand the largest transformation of our time. I'd really learn how to handle a polo pony. I'd learn to fly a helicopter. I'd finish the screenplay that I've been writing and direct a production of it in HDTV.".....Suppose that the guy cashes in his investments and does retire. What do we find? He is waking up at 9:30 am, surfing the Web, sorting out the cable TV bill, watching DVDs, talking about going to the gym, eating Doritos, and maybe accomplishing one of his stated goals. "
I am afraid I'll sit around surfing the web all day, I guess!* * In my case it's not as if I've put off all these activities until I RE - I've manged to study Mandarin, learn to scuba dive, take private pilot ground school, do significant volunteer work and still work 50 hrs a week, so it's not as if I would have to suddenly start doing other activities,* but I am so used to squeezing things into short time spans that I think when faced with the vast expanse of unstructured time it is going to be hard to get motivated.* *

But I've decided if I lie around like a slug for six months so be it - I deserve it.* As long as it doesn't turn into a way of life.* *Right now the pattern I see in myself is this:

Have three days free time - make extensive lists of things to do, schedules, etc.* Don't do any of them - play on the internet, sleep, watch tv. Weekend ends,* kick myself for not doing the things I said I'd do...* feel resentful at myself, because I "deserve" to goof off...* Dualing personalities?

If the plan holds, I have another 22 months to agonize ponder this, and to watch as SO goes first, and learn from his mistakes experience.*
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Re: Planning to die broke
Old 02-20-2006, 03:29 PM   #68
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Re: Planning to die broke

When I was a young retiree I sometimes felt social disapproval for what I was doing, or what some people assumed I was doing. Internally, I also felt a bit insecure about it. Over the years that lessened. Even now though, I differentiate weekends from weekdays, morning and afternoon from evening. It is pretty much beyond my tolerance to watch a movie before evening rolls around. So in summer, I don't see many movies.

I was physically busy though, with young kids and also a "mini-farm" and an old house that took a lot of work. Plus, I didn't have a* lot of money so I was trading stocks and commodities a lot. I bought a fiche reader, and had SEC filings overnighted to me. (No internet for me then!) Later my wife and I home schooled our 2 kids. Later yet, after she shuffled off to Buffalo, I finished the job alone with my youngest. Full time care of children, even as they get older can be quite time consuming. I had to teach them how to fish and shoot, how to play tennis and squash, take them to music lessons, etc..I even had to take them to Longacres and Emerald Downs or the OTB in Bellingham so they could learn probability. This knowledge helped get the younger one a job. His interviewer said “You have the best intuitive grasp of probability of anyone I have ever interviewed.”

Without this focus on kids, I might not have made it. It would have been easier financially, but harder (for me) morale-wise. Now of course they don't need me for day to day operations, but I am still useful as a father- a role I take seriously. Getting together with them, IM-ing with them, etc., all give me pleasure and focus.

The past 4 months I have been heavily focused on recovering from my wreck. It hasn't been horrible, but also it has taken a lot of work and attention. Contrariwise, it knocked out at least temporarily one of the major interests and time users that I formerly had, dancing. Even as my muscles and joints recover, I still get too damn tired to leave Seattle at 1 or 2am and attempt to drive home to the exurbs after a night out.

I practice drums usually 2 or more hours almost every day, and I sometimes go to blues jams where I can sit in. Just getting my left hand to behave properly is something that keeps me pretty busy. I don’t watch TV at all except when I am visiting my kids or if I go to the Eagles or a sports bar- as I took down my antenna to put on a new roof and never put it back.

I borrow library books and DVDs that I don’t find enough time to watch, so I take them back and re-borrow them. I think there is plenty to do, as long as we are able to value it.

Overall, I think someone like you, who has an SO or a dating life, plus has the drive to study Chinese, will not have any trouble keeping busy and fulfilled.

Ha
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Re: Planning to die broke
Old 02-20-2006, 10:11 PM   #69
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Re: Planning to die broke

Flog Blogger
Quote:
Could it be a matter of discipline? That many retirees are simply not self-starters?
Kate:
Quote:
I think you're right, about needing to be a self-starter.... except I was a self-starter for my last ten years of work, self-employed.
Hmmm... I didn't think of that. Billy and I have always been self starters and were self employed much of our adult life.* However, I assumed that if someone is considering ER, they have enough self discipline to direct their newly found free time..* Why would you live your life any differently once you retire?

You may find yourselves being a 'slug' for a short while, but heck... that won't be a lifetime self-description --- will it?* ** Self trust helps!*

Cute Fuzzy Bunny:
Quote:
I still have a very strong resistance to anything timed or organized after years of living under the yoke.* When my wife starts off on "Maybe next tuesday we can go to xyz and on friday we can do blah blah" I stick my fingers in my ears, start 'la la la'ing, and go to my special place.*
We are so much like this too! After 10 years of serving people in my restaurant, anticipating if they wanted something and having people assume I was 'stupid because I'm just a waitress', the last thing I wanted to do was have my time scheduled in any way!* * *

La la la la I love my special place!*

Sheryl:
Quote:
I am afraid I'll sit around surfing the web all day, I guess! ...I am so used to squeezing things into short time spans that I think when faced with the vast expanse of unstructured time it is going to be hard to get motivated.
Honestly? I don't think you'll have a problem.* 8) Just cut yourself some slack...*

Quote:
If the plan holds, I have another 22 months to agonize ponder this, and to watch as SO goes first, and learn from his mistakes experience.
Great idea!

HaHa
Quote:
When I was a young retiree I sometimes felt social disapproval for what I was doing, or what some people assumed I was doing. Internally, I also felt a bit insecure about it.
Very good point, and true...* My mother thought we had become 'bums' -- I had to explain to her that we were not on any government program and that I intended to remain productive...* etc. -- it took her a couple of years to understand, but then she got into it.* 8)

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Re: Planning to die broke
Old 02-21-2006, 12:13 AM   #70
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Re: Planning to die broke

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Originally Posted by Billy
Very good point, and true...* My mother thought we had become 'bums' -- I had to explain to her that we were not on any government program and that I intended to remain productive...* etc. -- it took her a couple of years to understand, but then she got into it.*
And we should point out that your mother was pretty darn glad to have you available in her time of need, right?
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Re: Planning to die broke
Old 02-21-2006, 05:42 AM   #71
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Re: Planning to die broke

This is one of the best threads I have read here. I am amazed all these pages and still on track.

In making decisions about leaving work it is really helpful to figure out exactly how much it takes you to live. Personally, I want to live in a house, and stay near the area we are in as we have elderly parents to care for. Also, I have grown children a days drive away. Although I love to travel, my obligations of eldercare prevent me from RV-ing full time or moving to a foriegn country.

What we have done is tracked our spending pretty closely to at least give us a target then tried to add in the unexpected as we all need new roofs etc. as time marches on. We could leave the workforce today but at age 51 it is a little too much of a crapshoot no matter how many calculators you use to make it to the end so are cutting back at work as much as we can, and adding to the moneypots. Eventually the moneypots will be big enough to make it no longer a crapshoot. Both of us are exploring new hobbies, cultivating friendships, dabbling in volunteer activities etc. Kind of like putting your big toe in, then wading in up to your knees.
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Re: Planning to die broke
Old 02-21-2006, 07:13 AM   #72
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Re: Planning to die broke

I don't expect to have much trouble occupying my time, but I do expect to have to w%@# at cultivating new friendships, since many/most of my current acquaintances are cow-orkers...

But I'm looking forward to the challenge!! 8)
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Re: Planning to die broke
Old 02-21-2006, 09:31 AM   #73
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Re: Planning to die broke

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Originally Posted by Have Funds, Will Retire
I don't expect to have much trouble occupying my time, but I do expect to have to w%@# at cultivating new friendships, since many/most of my current acquaintances are cow-orkers...

But I'm looking forward to the challenge!!* 8)

Same here but I don't see my coworkers on a social basis. I have always drawn the line between friends and work so I won't see these folks after I ER. Being in management requires staying objective; it is hard to fire a friend. Beside, most are younger than we are and we have very litttle in common with them. So, we will be looking for activities that will allow us to be with people with like interests so we can establish new friendships in a whole different setting than w@rk.
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Re: Planning to die broke
Old 02-21-2006, 01:44 PM   #74
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Re: Planning to die broke

Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy
I assumed that if someone is considering ER, they have enough self discipline to direct their newly found free time..*
Keeping your nose to the grindstone for years on end is not necessarily an act of self-discipline--maybe it's just habit!

Perhaps a better term to describe the FIREd is "self-directed"...moving towards one's own goals.
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Re: Planning to die broke
Old 02-21-2006, 10:36 PM   #75
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Re: Planning to die broke

Nords
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And we should point out that your mother was pretty darn glad to have you available in her time of need, right?

Shorttimer
Quote:
Although I love to travel, my obligations of eldercare prevent me from RV-ing full time or moving to a foriegn country.
Yeah.. I think my Mom was just as 'lost' about this new life description of ours as we were at the time. Hard to 'brag' about her daughter when she no longer had a job... You know? I think it was a generational thing..*

Since we have been PT's for going on 16 years now, the chances of us being in a foreign country while parents had health problems or could possibly die was a personal emotional nightmare for me.* * It was a large source of stress...* *:P

As it turned out... everything fell into place, and I was 'called in' for the heavy lifting, and my sisters took care of them day to day.* ** They each had jobs or family to tend to so could not take extended time off for End of Life Care, and this was actually the answer to my prayer -- to give back to them, in a way that was useful, purposeful, and profound.* I still weep at how deeply it touches!

And -- it is worth it! Thanks Nords for recognizing it, and Shorttimer, for putting this eldercare into your own personal plans. * I support that decision!* You won't be sorry...

FlogBlogger
Quote:
Perhaps a better term to describe the FIREd is "self-directed"...moving towards one's own goals.
Perfect!

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