Planning to die broke

[brewer12345]

I am retired, and did everything wrong.  No savings.  No retirement plan except for Social Security.

Yet, I am living in an RV and traveling all over the far west United States and Mexico.  I work on the road, writing about my travels.  Publishing stories about RV life.  Somehow, by this work, I earn enough to remain on the road.  Living a life that many others only dream about.

Focusing as this forum does, on early retirement and money, leaves out how to live.  The how part is much more difficult than just having the money.

I am not advocating foolishly bungling into retirement with insufficient resources.  What I am advocating is that although money is important, you should not pay too much for it.

There sometimes comes a point in time when you have to say, "What the hell!"  And take a leap of faith.  Believe in yourself completely, and the money will come.

George

George, I think you hit the nail on the head, but it is a lot easier to do quantitative work and solve the money side of the equation than to figure out the living part.  I read your site just about every day to help with the living part and I still struggle with it.  But I am starting to learn.  

In part due to your experiences, I have been thinking more about what I really want out of life and what is lacking in my current daily routine.  I had some time to think about it on vacation and although I am not quite sure how to put it into action, I had an insight or two that I really want to find a way to incorporate into my life.

 

[Eagle43]

George, You have figured it out. I still look forward to reading your blog. The "how-to" part is most important...

 

[Billy]

NORDS:

ณ ฟอำฟืกา รระยนำนหสมืเวหร  oops the Thai version was on...
Well, now you or Lance is gonna have to translate for the rest of the class!

No Problem! The Translation is: 武热路，。即  诶批欧  诶呢阿丕 

I read your site just about every day to help with the living part and I still struggle with it.  But I am starting to learn.

Yes, it really is the how, isn't it?   

Best to you in your exciting search!

Akaisha
Author, The Adventurer's Guide to Early Retirement

 

[Nords]

No Problem! The Translation is: 武热路，。即  诶批欧  诶呢阿丕 

(*sigh*) You don't want me or TH reaching for our Hawaiian dictionaries!

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Heck no. You remember the LAST thing i translated into hawaiian?

I think it came out to be something like "Thank you for this delicious airline meal. I didnt know chicken could be made that color."?

 

[Billy]

When Billy and I visited Northeastern Thailand a couple of years back, we had full confidence in our Thai speaking abilities. We knew how to order food and never considered twice that it could be misunderstood...   

We started simple - 2 plates of Phad Thai, and 2 Beer Changs 

We got the Phad Thai, but when we heard the blender going... and we were the only ones in the restaurant... we knew something was wrong!

We received 2 milkshakes instead...   

Pretty funny.... the milkshakes were good, though!

Akaisha
Author, The Adventurer's Guide to Early Retirement

 

[Sheryl]

George, You have figured it out.  I still look forward to reading your blog.  The "how-to" part is most important...

George's point is a good one. For myself, I realized in the last month or so that I have been very obsessed with the "money" part of FIRE - and so busy with spreadsheets and calculations that I have not thought about the "how-to" or the What to do.

Sure, I have lots of great hobbies I want to pursue, travel, garden, etc. etc. But these are just general ideas. When I contemplate the reality of not getting up and going to work every day, I have a hard time imagining what I really will do. Can I really fill the days with these activities that until now have been squeezed into evenings weekends and a few vacations??

I don't do change well, so it is going to be interesting.

 

[Nords]

When I contemplate the reality of not getting up and going to work every day, I have a hard time imagining what I really will do.  Can I really fill the days with these activities that until now have been squeezed into evenings weekends and a few vacations??

I don't get up with a schedule in my hand, either, and the time fills itself. I've been happily fulfilled these last couple weeks without even looking at the tax returns that I should be working on.

The short answer to your question is "Yes."

The longer answer is "You'll find more things that interest you than you ever imagined having enough time to do."

The default (or defeat, depending on your perspective) answer is: "You can always go get a job."

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Or have a baby...this one keeps me pretty busy...

 

[Sheryl]

The default (or defeat, depending on your perspective) answer is:  "You can always go get a job."

Or have a baby...this one keeps me pretty busy...

ARGH! Neither of these is an option! I have been informed to be prepared for a step-grandkid in the next couple years. I guess I could become a doting grandparent.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Thats eaten up half of my dads golf time.

Speaking of which, I need to buy a crowbar today when i'm at home depot to separate those two so I can get in a little time with the little bunny...

 

[brewer12345]

George's point is a good one.  For myself, I realized in the last month or so that I have been very obsessed with the "money" part of FIRE - and so busy with spreadsheets and calculations that I  have not thought about the "how-to" or the What to do.

Sure, I have lots of great hobbies I want to pursue, travel, garden, etc. etc.  But these are just general ideas.  When I contemplate the reality of not getting up and going to work every day, I have a hard time imagining what I really will do.  Can I really fill the days with these activities that until now have been squeezed into evenings weekends and a few vacations??

I don't do change well, so it is going to be interesting.   

I don't know if it will work the same way for you, but I found that on my recent, unexpectedly lengthy vacation, I had enough time and went at a leisurely enough pace that I had the time and mental "space" to really think about my life and discover what is missing in my current lifestyle.  I came to some conclusions about what is important to me and that some of the important stuff is sorely lacking in my life right now.  If I were FIREd, it would be much more feasible to make the changes I'd like to make, but I am still a working stiff.

IOW, I suspect that once you have sufficient time and a lack of pressure so that you can manage some introspection, you will figure out what has been missing in your life.  But I think that taking it easy and aviding simply filling up the time/distracting yourself is a necessary prerequisite.

 

[Billy]

Sheryl

Sure, I have lots of great hobbies I want to pursue, travel, garden, etc. etc.  But these are just general ideas.  When I contemplate the reality of not getting up and going to work every day, I have a hard time imagining what I really will do.  Can I really fill the days with these activities that until now have been squeezed into evenings weekends and a few vacations??

I don't do change well, so it is going to be interesting.   

   

brewer12345

IOW, I suspect that once you have sufficient time and a lack of pressure so that you can manage some introspection, you will figure out what has been missing in your life. But I think that taking it easy and aviding simply filling up the time/distracting yourself is a necessary prerequisite.

Hi Guys... I am finding this question to be a very common one. We have people writing to us all the time saying the same thing. To be honest, I'm not sure I understand this perspective, because I enjoy time to myself, and I have a ton of interests and love to learn, travel, spend time with loved ones, volunteer and lots of etc.      My problem is running out of time to do the things I want to do!  8)

I guess what I am trying to say, is, that I don't understand what you are afraid of...  I'm sorry.. and I don't mean to have an 'attitude' - I just don't understand that fear. 

Would you be willing to share something that personal? 

I don't want to make assumptions here because they could be way out of the ballpark...

Thanks for any insight here on this issue... I certainly appreciate it.. 

Akaisha
Author, The Adventurer's Guide to Early Retirement

 

[FlogBlogger]

Could it be a matter of discipline? That many retirees are simply not self-starters? Having worked all those years in a defined, structured system, driven by outside requirements, perhaps retirees who have not cultivated personal interests all along find themselves propelled out to sea, without a rudder.

To quote Mr. Greenspun (http://philip.greenspun.com) : "Ask a wage slave what he'd like to accomplish. Chances are the response will be something like "I'd start every day at the gym and work out for two hours until I was as buff as Brad Pitt. Then I'd practice the piano for three hours. I'd become fluent in Mandarin so that I could be prepared to understand the largest transformation of our time. I'd really learn how to handle a polo pony. I'd learn to fly a helicopter. I'd finish the screenplay that I've been writing and direct a production of it in HDTV.".....Suppose that the guy cashes in his investments and does retire. What do we find? He is waking up at 9:30 am, surfing the Web, sorting out the cable TV bill, watching DVDs, talking about going to the gym, eating Doritos, and maybe accomplishing one of his stated goals. "

 

[kat]

I think you're right, about needing to be a self-starter.... except I was a self-starter for my last ten years of work, self-employed.

I think I was unprepared for the steps needed to break free from paid work. So instead of doing the final clean up of paper work, I'm having some beer. What happened for me is one day deciding I wanted to retire, and then realizing I could right then, at 43. I expect to have it all sorted out when I'm 45 (15 months) and that's okay with me. Going to hike in some mountains and wait for my head to catch up. That's just how I do things and probably always will. INFP, if you are into those personality things. Philosophy major lawyer, into the poverty/homelessness issues. I can die broke, as this thread began, but I won't. Never tracked anything on a spreadsheet, but pencils still work. Going to try very hard to only check the port 4 times a year.

kate

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Could it be a matter of discipline? That many retirees are simply not self-starters? Having worked all those years in a defined, structured system, driven by outside requirements, perhaps retirees who have not cultivated personal interests all along find themselves propelled out to sea, without a rudder.

To quote Mr. Greenspun (http://philip.greenspun.com) : "Ask a wage slave what he'd like to accomplish. Chances are the response will be something like "I'd start every day at the gym and work out for two hours until I was as buff as Brad Pitt. Then I'd practice the piano for three hours. I'd become fluent in Mandarin so that I could be prepared to understand the largest transformation of our time. I'd really learn how to handle a polo pony. I'd learn to fly a helicopter. I'd finish the screenplay that I've been writing and direct a production of it in HDTV.".....Suppose that the guy cashes in his investments and does retire. What do we find? He is waking up at 9:30 am, surfing the Web, sorting out the cable TV bill, watching DVDs, talking about going to the gym, eating Doritos, and maybe accomplishing one of his stated goals. "

I mentioned this before recently. I became a slug when i ER'd, at least at first. I totally didnt mind until the stuff I really should be getting to was piling up. Started making little lists and putting little reminders in my outlook calendar. That turned out to be enough structure for me to get priority stuff done in a timely manner without feeling too organized.

I still have a very strong resistance to anything timed or organized after years of living under the yoke. When my wife starts off on "Maybe next tuesday we can go to xyz and on friday we can do blah blah" I stick my fingers in my ears, start 'la la la'ing, and go to my special place.

 

[Sheryl]

Hi Guys... I am finding this question to be a very common one. We have people writing to us all the time saying the same thing. To be honest, I'm not sure I understand this perspective, because I enjoy time to myself, and I have a ton of interests and love to learn, travel, spend time with loved ones, volunteer and lots of etc.      My problem is running out of time to do the things I want to do!  8)

I guess what I am trying to say, is, that I don't understand what you are afraid of...  I'm sorry.. and I don't mean to have an 'attitude' - I just don't understand that fear. 

Would you be willing to share something that personal? 

Akaisha

I don't mind sharing, but am not sure I can be coherent.  This quote sort of summarizes what I'm feeling:

"Ask a wage slave what he'd like to accomplish. Chances are the response will be something like "I'd start every day at the gym and work out for two hours until I was as buff as Brad Pitt. Then I'd practice the piano for three hours. I'd become fluent in Mandarin so that I could be prepared to understand the largest transformation of our time. I'd really learn how to handle a polo pony. I'd learn to fly a helicopter. I'd finish the screenplay that I've been writing and direct a production of it in HDTV.".....Suppose that the guy cashes in his investments and does retire. What do we find? He is waking up at 9:30 am, surfing the Web, sorting out the cable TV bill, watching DVDs, talking about going to the gym, eating Doritos, and maybe accomplishing one of his stated goals. "

I am afraid I'll sit around surfing the web all day, I guess!    In my case it's not as if I've put off all these activities until I RE - I've manged to study Mandarin, learn to scuba dive, take private pilot ground school, do significant volunteer work and still work 50 hrs a week, so it's not as if I would have to suddenly start doing other activities,  but I am so used to squeezing things into short time spans that I think when faced with the vast expanse of unstructured time it is going to be hard to get motivated.   

But I've decided if I lie around like a slug for six months so be it - I deserve it.  As long as it doesn't turn into a way of life.   Right now the pattern I see in myself is this:

Have three days free time - make extensive lists of things to do, schedules, etc.  Don't do any of them - play on the internet, sleep, watch tv. Weekend ends,  kick myself for not doing the things I said I'd do...  feel resentful at myself, because I "deserve" to goof off...  Dualing personalities?

If the plan holds, I have another 22 months to agonize ponder this, and to watch as SO goes first, and learn from his mistakes experience. 

 

[haha]

When I was a young retiree I sometimes felt social disapproval for what I was doing, or what some people assumed I was doing. Internally, I also felt a bit insecure about it. Over the years that lessened. Even now though, I differentiate weekends from weekdays, morning and afternoon from evening. It is pretty much beyond my tolerance to watch a movie before evening rolls around. So in summer, I don't see many movies.

I was physically busy though, with young kids and also a "mini-farm" and an old house that took a lot of work. Plus, I didn't have a  lot of money so I was trading stocks and commodities a lot. I bought a fiche reader, and had SEC filings overnighted to me. (No internet for me then!) Later my wife and I home schooled our 2 kids. Later yet, after she shuffled off to Buffalo, I finished the job alone with my youngest. Full time care of children, even as they get older can be quite time consuming. I had to teach them how to fish and shoot, how to play tennis and squash, take them to music lessons, etc..I even had to take them to Longacres and Emerald Downs or the OTB in Bellingham so they could learn probability. This knowledge helped get the younger one a job. His interviewer said “You have the best intuitive grasp of probability of anyone I have ever interviewed.”

Without this focus on kids, I might not have made it. It would have been easier financially, but harder (for me) morale-wise. Now of course they don't need me for day to day operations, but I am still useful as a father- a role I take seriously. Getting together with them, IM-ing with them, etc., all give me pleasure and focus.

The past 4 months I have been heavily focused on recovering from my wreck. It hasn't been horrible, but also it has taken a lot of work and attention. Contrariwise, it knocked out at least temporarily one of the major interests and time users that I formerly had, dancing. Even as my muscles and joints recover, I still get too damn tired to leave Seattle at 1 or 2am and attempt to drive home to the exurbs after a night out.

I practice drums usually 2 or more hours almost every day, and I sometimes go to blues jams where I can sit in. Just getting my left hand to behave properly is something that keeps me pretty busy. I don’t watch TV at all except when I am visiting my kids or if I go to the Eagles or a sports bar- as I took down my antenna to put on a new roof and never put it back.

I borrow library books and DVDs that I don’t find enough time to watch, so I take them back and re-borrow them. I think there is plenty to do, as long as we are able to value it.

Overall, I think someone like you, who has an SO or a dating life, plus has the drive to study Chinese, will not have any trouble keeping busy and fulfilled.

Ha

 

[Billy]

Flog Blogger

Could it be a matter of discipline? That many retirees are simply not self-starters?

Kate:

I think you're right, about needing to be a self-starter.... except I was a self-starter for my last ten years of work, self-employed.

Hmmm... I didn't think of that. Billy and I have always been self starters and were self employed much of our adult life.  However, I assumed that if someone is considering ER, they have enough self discipline to direct their newly found free time..  Why would you live your life any differently once you retire?

You may find yourselves being a 'slug' for a short while, but heck... that won't be a lifetime self-description --- will it?     Self trust helps! 

Cute Fuzzy Bunny:

I still have a very strong resistance to anything timed or organized after years of living under the yoke.  When my wife starts off on "Maybe next tuesday we can go to xyz and on friday we can do blah blah" I stick my fingers in my ears, start 'la la la'ing, and go to my special place. 

We are so much like this too! After 10 years of serving people in my restaurant, anticipating if they wanted something and having people assume I was 'stupid because I'm just a waitress', the last thing I wanted to do was have my time scheduled in any way!     

La la la la I love my special place! 

Sheryl:

I am afraid I'll sit around surfing the web all day, I guess! ...I am so used to squeezing things into short time spans that I think when faced with the vast expanse of unstructured time it is going to be hard to get motivated.

Honestly? I don't think you'll have a problem.  8) Just cut yourself some slack... 

If the plan holds, I have another 22 months to agonize ponder this, and to watch as SO goes first, and learn from his mistakes experience.

Great idea!

HaHa

When I was a young retiree I sometimes felt social disapproval for what I was doing, or what some people assumed I was doing. Internally, I also felt a bit insecure about it.

Very good point, and true...  My mother thought we had become 'bums' -- I had to explain to her that we were not on any government program and that I intended to remain productive...  etc. -- it took her a couple of years to understand, but then she got into it.  8)

Akaisha
Author, The Adventurer's Guide to Early Retirement

 

[Nords]

Very good point, and true...  My mother thought we had become 'bums' -- I had to explain to her that we were not on any government program and that I intended to remain productive...  etc. -- it took her a couple of years to understand, but then she got into it. 

And we should point out that your mother was pretty darn glad to have you available in her time of need, right?

 

[shorttimer]

This is one of the best threads I have read here. I am amazed all these pages and still on track.

In making decisions about leaving work it is really helpful to figure out exactly how much it takes you to live. Personally, I want to live in a house, and stay near the area we are in as we have elderly parents to care for. Also, I have grown children a days drive away. Although I love to travel, my obligations of eldercare prevent me from RV-ing full time or moving to a foriegn country.

What we have done is tracked our spending pretty closely to at least give us a target then tried to add in the unexpected as we all need new roofs etc. as time marches on. We could leave the workforce today but at age 51 it is a little too much of a crapshoot no matter how many calculators you use to make it to the end so are cutting back at work as much as we can, and adding to the moneypots. Eventually the moneypots will be big enough to make it no longer a crapshoot. Both of us are exploring new hobbies, cultivating friendships, dabbling in volunteer activities etc. Kind of like putting your big toe in, then wading in up to your knees.

 

[HFWR]

I don't expect to have much trouble occupying my time, but I do expect to have to w%@# at cultivating new friendships, since many/most of my current acquaintances are cow-orkers...

But I'm looking forward to the challenge!! 8)

 

[SteveR]

I don't expect to have much trouble occupying my time, but I do expect to have to w%@# at cultivating new friendships, since many/most of my current acquaintances are cow-orkers...

But I'm looking forward to the challenge!!  8)

Same here but I don't see my coworkers on a social basis. I have always drawn the line between friends and work so I won't see these folks after I ER. Being in management requires staying objective; it is hard to fire a friend. Beside, most are younger than we are and we have very litttle in common with them. So, we will be looking for activities that will allow us to be with people with like interests so we can establish new friendships in a whole different setting than w@rk.

 

[FlogBlogger]

I assumed that if someone is considering ER, they have enough self discipline to direct their newly found free time.. 

Keeping your nose to the grindstone for years on end is not necessarily an act of self-discipline--maybe it's just habit!

Perhaps a better term to describe the FIREd is "self-directed"...moving towards one's own goals.

 

[Billy]

Nords

And we should point out that your mother was pretty darn glad to have you available in her time of need, right?

Shorttimer

Although I love to travel, my obligations of eldercare prevent me from RV-ing full time or moving to a foriegn country.

Yeah.. I think my Mom was just as 'lost' about this new life description of ours as we were at the time. Hard to 'brag' about her daughter when she no longer had a job... You know? I think it was a generational thing.. 

Since we have been PT's for going on 16 years now, the chances of us being in a foreign country while parents had health problems or could possibly die was a personal emotional nightmare for me.    It was a large source of stress...   

As it turned out... everything fell into place, and I was 'called in' for the heavy lifting, and my sisters took care of them day to day.     They each had jobs or family to tend to so could not take extended time off for End of Life Care, and this was actually the answer to my prayer -- to give back to them, in a way that was useful, purposeful, and profound.  I still weep at how deeply it touches!

And -- it is worth it! Thanks Nords for recognizing it, and Shorttimer, for putting this eldercare into your own personal plans.   I support that decision!  You won't be sorry...

FlogBlogger

Perhaps a better term to describe the FIREd is "self-directed"...moving towards one's own goals.

Perfect!

Akaisha
Author, The Adventurer's Guide to Early Retirement