Poll: Spouses Financial Acumen

[Free To Canoe]

Other?

Dear readers,

Did you ever entertain the possibility that spouse could manage the portfolio BETTER than you?

 

[Nords]

Did you ever entertain the possibility that spouse could manage the portfolio BETTER than you?

Well, she managed to trick me into agreeing to let her delegate its management to me, so it seems to me that she's already managing the portfolio a lot better.

Now if I could just find some motivated [-]sucker[/-] protege to do the same for free...

 

[MBAustin]

Caroline - Thanks for your detailed post which has a lot of instructive content for the rest of us. Bless you as you navigate these trouble waters with your family!

 

[haha]

Now as for my current steady boyfriend/companion of 12 years, he knows exactly how he wants to run his finances and he does it perfectly and accurately. I don't think he will make it to SS age doing what he is doing without running out of money, but he thinks he will so maybe he'll prove me wrong. In any case, we are not financially intermingled at this stage.

Is he quite a bit younger than you? Sounds like he had better be, because you have said that for you SS eligibility age is fairly close.

I got a phone call tonight from my dance partner. Her husband is spending a couple years in China. He is trying to get her to send him 1099s from their online savings accounts. I don't know why he doesn't look them up online himself, as she is not only incompetent, but refuses to be bothered.

She wanted me to tell her what to do. I like the way she dances, and she makes very good coffee so if there were anything simple I could have done for her I would have. But she is just too disinterested for me to get involved. She is anything but lazy, but she refuses to take any interest in money matters. Ordinarily this is agreeable to her husband, as he then has total control and she is completely in the dark. But it leaves him in pickle now.

Ha

 

[jclarksnakes]

My DH is intelligent, just not in a way that relates to money and numbers. He also tunes out if I don't relate financial info in little chunks. One time he got up to wander out of the room to escape and I had to stand in front of the doorway. It wasn't an argument, it was an update and all good news. He just gets itchy and restless when it comes to financial discussions. Just not his thing and he'll look for any distraction to not have to deal with it.

A few years ago Dave Ramsey had a nightly TV show. DH wouldn't watch it but I did and he'd hear it from another room and come in and comment about what dumb things other people do with their money. He usually agreed with DR but there's no way he would sit down and watch the show.

DH is much improved in his tolerance of money discussions since he's retired. If I let him know in advance he can sit through a spreadsheet and a few comments if I keep it under a few minutes. His eyes still glaze over but he never disagrees and he really does appreciate that I handle it all.

I can't imagine being that detached from your own financial life.

Gosh, you make the poor guy sit through a discussion with a spreadsheet? Using spreadsheets at home may seem perfectly normal to us ER forum types and also to other geeky people but to most of America a spreadsheet is exceedingly boring and even worse may seem like something that is work (yuck) related. I can just imagine your husband sitting at the local bar having a drink with his friends and telling them how you make him sit and listen to you discussing a spreadsheet of financial information.

 

[W2R]

Is he quite a bit younger than you? Sounds like he had better be, because you have said that for you SS eligibility age is fairly close.

Yes, he is a little younger. He is 57 (I am 63). Also, I do realize that I tend to be more cautious in my financial planning than most care to be (including him). If we were married, this could be a source of considerable conflict, I suppose. But we are not, and so it really isn't.

I got a phone call tonight from my dance partner. Her husband is spending a couple years in China. He is trying to get her to send him 1099s from their online savings accounts. I don't know why he doesn't look them up online himself, as she is not only incompetent, but refuses to be bothered.

She wanted me to tell her what to do. I like the way she dances, and she makes very good coffee so if there were anything simple I could have done for her I would have. But she is just too disinterested for me to get involved. She is anything but lazy, but she refuses to take any interest in money matters. Ordinarily this is agreeable to her husband, as he then has total control and she is completely in the dark. But it leaves him in pickle now.

Ha

You are wise to remain uninvolved, IMO. This is his problem, not yours. There are some big advantages to being single.

 

[martyp]

I've done all the finances for years but she is smart and could pick it up if necessary.

 

[Midpack]

Other?

Dear readers,

Did you ever entertain the possibility that spouse could manage the portfolio BETTER than you?

I didn't, but it's a fair point. One would assume the more capable/knowledgeable spouse would be handling (or sharing) finances when both are available. I guess there could be intact couples where the less capable/knowledgeable spouse handled the money, but I'd be surprised...

 

[haha]

This is his problem, not yours. There are some big advantages to being single.

Huge advantages. I really liked being married and having a family, easily best times of my life. But when the marriage part ended and my kids were grown I thought, well, I'll just wait and see. And overall, what I saw was that although women are very attractive and very interesting in so many ways, I really don't want to have to have an opinion about how another person is acting, or what effect those actions may have on me. One thing for sure, I soon understood that if someone I had become close to was on track to have a financial crash, it would likely be very hard for me to stand aside. So I quickly would take evasive action. For me, it might too late once the fat was in the fire.

Ha

 

[Danmar]

@Caroline: I think your story about your mother may be fairly representative of someone her age. I have heard of this kind of thing quite a bit. i, on the other hand have the opposite problem. My 86 year old widowed mother is a bit of a gullible spend thrift. I am totally in charge of her finances and she has enough money to last another 7-8 years at least not counting her condo ($400k) I have told her that if she ever runs out , I will fund her. The problem: she buys every piece of shiny junk she sees on the shopping channel. I complain from time to time but she keeps at it. Maybe around $500/month. I figure it's her entertainment but this stuff really is crap. Anyway she feels totally secure money wise and has great confidence in her financial management(me). I'd rather she was this way than that which you described. Sorry it's been so tough for you.

 

[W2R]

Huge advantages. I really liked being married and having a family, easily best times of my life. But when the marriage part ended and my kids were grown I thought, well, I'll just wait and see. And overall, what I saw was that although women are very attractive and very interesting in so many ways, I really don't want to have to have an opinion about how another person is acting, or what effect those actions may have on me. One thing for sure, I soon understood that if someone I had become close to was on track to have a financial crash, it would likely be very hard for me to stand aside. So I quickly would take evasive action. For me, it might too late once the fat was in the fire.

Ha

I think it is easier being a woman in this sort of situation. If a man wouldn't take money (or a lot of excessive "gifts" or indulgences) from a girlfriend anyway, then his girlfriend wouldn't have to make tough decisions like that. Also, if a couple is close enough then I think that in time, they learn to respect one another's decisions.

 

[Moemg]

One thing for sure, I soon understood that if someone I had become close to was on track to have a financial crash, it would likely be very hard for me to stand aside. So I quickly would take evasive action. For me, it might too late once the fat was in the fire.

Ha

This is a tough thing to deal with if you are not married . I would make it as financially easy on the other person without harming my finances .I would not offer money unless their was a dire need but I would pick up more checks and buy tickets for events we wanted to attend . I would also cook more rather than going out .I think it all depends on how connected you are to the other person. For me it would be impossible to just watch the situation and do nothing if I really cared about the person . As Suze Orman( who I have to admit I watch sometimes ) would say "People first " .

 

[gerntz]

Good reading. Thanks all. It certainly shows why some poeple aren't cut out to be DIYers when it comes to finances.

DW manages the checking & savings accounts, pays like 90-95% of the bills, keeps the spreadsheet of income & outflow for our rental units' LLC, & get its taxes done. I keep up with the market, recommend to her with our advisor what/where our investments ought to be (generally pretty perfunctory) & what donations to make, keep track of our total assets & liabilities, & take care of our personal taxes/returns. Either of us could do both jobs, but she has some trepidation over the investments side whereas I enjoy that. Also, our parents were good stewards of their assets & I think passed that trait onto us.

 

[Sesq]

When we got married I made my wife read through a bunch of articles on the web to get a basic understanding of stocks vs bonds, what a mutual fund is, how to ferret out fees, etc. She has retained it, but has only a surface level of knowledge. I run the finances from deal finding to investing to bill paying, and of course I run the spreadsheets.

She was on her own for years and totally capable of handling her checkbook and I think would be fine in my absence.

She is a good judge of character and frugal enough that I don't think it will be a problem. With life insurance combined with our savings she'd have more than enough as long as she didn't marry again poorly. Given that her first move would be to fully fund the college funds I guess I can't be too concerned about that risk.

Its interesting to hear about folks running their parents finances. I know mine will keep the wall up for a long, long, long time. Hers too, except in that case I am expecting them to go broke at some point.

 

[Nords]

Its interesting to hear about folks running their parents finances. I know mine will keep the wall up for a long, long, long time. Hers too, except in that case I am expecting them to go broke at some point.

It's "interesting" until they can no longer care for their finances, and a responsible adult child is brought in to pick up the pieces.

Assuming you can find the pieces to begin with.

 

[myself]

I must agree that DW doesn't focus so much on the finances as I take care of all that now. I involve here to the extent we converse about what stage we are in, where we are trying to get to (roughly), and that everything in between is simply a distraction.

That being said, DW would currently go with the safe bet (can't blame her for that), although I really need to put together my 5-10-15 year plan on paper so that she can peruse through it for her own sake ... and that of our kiddos!

Love her to death, I do! (spoke with with the the worst Yoda accent in the world).

 

[myself]

My father-in-law (85) died 5 years back, my own father died last year (80), and my husband's uncle (83) died this month.

Each of these gentlemen left their wives with enough money to survive and even thrive -- NONE left his wife with the confidence to do so happily.

In my mother's case I tell her, her lawyer tells her, everyone tells her she has enough money (at 87) to support herself into her 100's. But she worries incessantly anyway. This is a woman who can't write a check, can't read a utility bill, and can't comprehend a bank statement. Her life is decidedly unhappy because she can't understand enough to believe what we're all telling her.

I'm her primary caretaker, and I'm exhausted. Not by managing her finances, which are simple enough, but by her endless fretting, worrying, questioning, and distrust of issues she never took the time to understand. She's convinced that the utilities, the credit union, the repairmen, the dentist, the doctor, the grocer... everyone is out to rob her blind (myself excepted, my siblings not).

NO amount of explaining will convince her otherwise.


Why am I boring you with this? Because, while part of this is probably her natural disposition, a large part is ignorance. I've learned that it's not enough simply to leave a solid financial reserve for your surviving spouse, -- it's vital that they understand it, also.

This may be a generational thing -- I hope so. But those who haven't educated their spouses, and / or are planning to leave their spouse's financial well-being to their children -- no matter how responsible those children are -- may be passing a significant emotional burden on to everyone involved. Especially if and when that spouse enters his / her 70s, 80s, and beyond.

I love my mother and will always take care of her, but our last years together might have been so much happier and more meaningful if she'd taken the time to understand her finances, or if my dad had insisted that she do so.

I currently take care of finances for DH and myself also, and I was OK with that until Papa died. No more. I'm getting DH on board and educated now -- for his own good and for my peace of mind.

End of lecture... if you got this far, thanks for listening...

A simple thought if you will ...

DW has requested (and I still need to take care of it fully ), for a simple piece(s) of paper that explains everything she'll need to know to take care of things.
Now I want her and our kiddos to be OK in the unfortunate event of my passing. However, I'm starting to transition to the entire financial aspect to a "turnkey" system. In so much as she will receive statements and has the capacity to understand most of it, but my goal is to automate our lives as much as possible to the extent that I myself don't have to think of it ... much less that she does too.

I am considering setting up a relatively simple Living Trust that will define the mechanisms necessary to take care of the house and most of it's necessities. Granted, there can/will be some events that I cannot predetermine, but I am finding that these seem to be fewer and far between as I get older.
And in case anyone is wondering, NO I don't know everything. I'm just considerably wiser than I was say 10-20 years ago.

 

[brewer12345]

You could take the Claymore mine approach: "This End Toward Enemy".

As I have been learning, you don't aim a shotgun, you merely point it. Same basic idea.

 

[audreyh1]

I think he knows to just put it in some balanced funds so he doesn't have to mess with things much. He gets the general idea, and understands about withdrawal rates, etc. He does our annual taxes (I do the estimated), so he knows our history.

I hope he doesn't just put it all in Apple stock like he did with his SEP-IRA over a decade ago.

Oh, wait........

 

[Keim]

As I have been learning, you don't aim a shotgun, you merely point it. Same basic idea.

Even more to the point, you point it and prepare for a good amount of kickback.

Had one give me a bloody nose!

 

[aida2003]

I analyze everything to death and DH just...isn't that interested. So I do all the money stuff. We do talk about it and sometimes he has an opinion. I think if I wasn't here he would just have Vanguard do a financial plan and then would follow it and have done with it.

Ours similar situation. However, even though we talk about our finances, when my DH offers his 'knowledge' about investments, my frequent reaction is "which tree did you drop from this time?"
He's the kind of guy who wouldn't even know his salary if you asked him out of the blue.

 

[bssc]

I suspect that the poll is skewed towards us self directed types since only two people selected other which I took as the other half being more savvy (as Free to Canoe implied).

DW is an engineer, unfortunately, that means if it is not tangible, she doesn't quite get it. I remember explaining on a mortgage why you pay more interest in the early years and less and the balance goes down. A month later, she had forgotten the conversation.

 

[MBAustin]

Update on post #28: We actually did talk about this last night over dinner and I found DH much less confident of what to do than I thought he would be. So I'll be working on some instructions/explanations for him, and we may pursue having a professional "in the wings" for him to consult (fee-only of course). Once DS is a bit older (he's still in college) I may see if he is interested in being the back-up investment manager, as he's always shown more interest in the subject than his sister.

Thanks for the thread as I probably wouldn't have asked the question without it.

 

[foxfirev5]

Even more to the point, you point it and prepare for a good amount of kickback.

Had one give me a bloody nose!

I believe the correct format would be - Point, Aim , Follow through

 

[jeeper]

DW is quite capable, but is not at all interested in the finances. She will likely depend on trusted friend, and my instructions to continue on with current investment/withdrawal strategy.
I like to show her all the great things I am doing with years ahead planning, and she gives me an ear, but alas, I sense that her mind is elsewhere.
This stuff is not for everybody!