Poll: Spouses Financial Acumen

[H2ODude]

I do all the worrying, investing, and bill paying. Lord knows I've tried to at least give her a walking around tour of where it's all at, but she's like "yeah, ok, sounds good." Fortunately we have two very savvy kids (who are very trustworthy) and a SIL who's been long FI in the investment business in London, so if anything, they'll step in and improve the performance I've been able to generate! If you asked her what our investments were, I'd bet she couldn't get within 25%! Oh well, it's worked for us for almost 42 years.

 

[ziggy29]

Right now she would have to rely on the "Letter From Your Dead Husband" I've prepared for her (and update every few months) but it's my hope she'll at least be able to make her own decisions on a fairly basic level as I slowly work with her on financial planning and money management over time.

 

[MBAustin]

I generally make our investment decisions (although I don't actually change anything without discussing with DH, who always says "fine"). When he retired (several years before me) he agreed to build and maintain our portfolio spreadsheet, updating it monthly. This has given him a much better handle on what we have and a ready-made opportunity to discuss it once a month.

What I need to work on is our "decumulation plan" as we are now spending from our savings. At this point, he would need advice to decide where to take money from after a year or two (there is enough in cash/ST bonds that he wouldn't have to do anything quickly).

 

[Texas Proud]

All DW has wanted to have is some reassurance that we're financially doing ok. She doesn't want to be bothered with details... doesn't care where the money is or how it's invested. If we have to spend a bunch (like on a home improvement project), she just wants to know if it will hurt us. Doesn't want to talk about insurance... life insurance discussions used to make her cry but not anymore, so I think that's progress (or maybe she's just getting tired of me ). Doesn't care to pay the bills. She is perfectly capable and my guess is that she'll take control just fine after I'm gone... but there's a pretty good chance she'll just hire someone to manage the investments.

I would start to worry if she starts asking questions about your life insurance... like 'are the premiums paid up?'....

 

[rescueme]

I guess that I'm a bit fortunate that while I make most/all of the investment decisions (after discussing with DW), she has taken on and become comfortable with paying the bills, monitoring our joint budget, and managing withdrawals (along with paying taxes) from my retirement accounts over the last year, along with starting her withdrawals (she retired a few weeks ago, and I have been retired five years, thus far).

To make our investments more simple (assuming I pass first), she knows to have the bulk of our (at least mine) be transferred to Wellesley. As it is, she may not need to tap that account during her life (if ever), and she has been in meetings with our (elder law) attorney, along with our "investment advisor" (we don't use him, but he will be responsible for our "remainder estate", along with a commercial trust for the benefit of our adult disabled son, after we both pass).

And to think that 43 years ago, as newlyweds and I trying to "make it work" (financially), she's the one who put me on a budget...

 

[misanman]

DW has absolutely no interest in financial management. One of my biggest concerns is that she could be taken advantage of. I am considering annuities because of this, for at least for a portion of our resources. Or I could entrust a son or daughter to help out.

 

[Donzo]

I do the investing, but have the current and money going out 15-20 years on auto pilot (VG managed funds). The long term 15+ year out there money needs to be adjusted with the ups and downs. This is a good thread - I need to discuss the portfolio with DW more...

 

[rodi]

It's interesting reading this and thinking about my parents (both passed).
My parents had his/hers/ours finances because both were control freaks (not a bad thing) and wanted some control over portions of the budget. It worked for them. And both worked outside the home and had careers. (Mom took a few years off till I was in jr. high.) Both retired with good 401k type savings and pensions.

They also had pretty traditional household responsibilities. Not just with money - but dad maintained the cars/yard, mom maintained the house and did meal prep/cleanup.

When my mom was dx'd with terminal cancer she realized she needed to bring my dad up to speed. She spent the next several months having him shadow her - learning how to pick fruits/veggies at the grocery store, learning how to put a healthy/tasty meal together, learning how to load the dishwasher correctly. LOL. This became very useful when she got sicker - since he was taking on more of the work - but she could offer suggestions. It was a good thing.

So I guess it's important to have your SO up to speed in more than just money.

 

[MichaelB]

When it comes to family finances my guiding principle has always been to make sure I am worth more alive than dead. Don't want any unnecessary motivation out there.

DW chose not to get involved in managing our finances from the very beginning, when we had no finances, 'til now, when we do. Leaving a "how to" manual along with instructions on how to simplify are an important part of my obligations.

 

[bbbamI]

So I guess it's important to have your SO up to speed in more than just money.

Oh yes...I agree.

When my momma started to become more forgetful as time went by (she developed Alzheimer's and died last year), she brought daddy up to speed as well on the household chores and bill paying. He fussed in the beginning, but finally gave in.

IMO a spouse doesn't want to get involved in the 'duties' that are taken care of by the other spouse because it reminds them one day they might/will lose them. IOW, as long as the other spouse continues to take care of certain things, everything is alright.

It's almost unbearable to think of losing your spouse, but it happens. ...and it can happen without warning.

 

[FinanceDude]

DW is hands-off for the most part, but I always have to ask if we can spend money. What did I expect, I married an accountant that is now a controller...........

 

[FinanceDude]

IMO a spouse doesn't want to get involved in the 'duties' that are taken care of by the other spouse because it reminds them one day they might/will lose them. IOW, as long as the other spouse continues to take care of certain things, everything is alright.

Yikes, there are some "duties" that I am ecstatic to do.........

 

[bbbamI]

Yikes, there are some "duties" that I am ecstatic to do.........

Ahhhhh....I have no doubt your DW is a very fortunate woman....

 

[Lisa99]

I had to vote "with about the same expertise as me" but today he has no interest and no involvement and doesn't want it.

But, he's a very smart guy and I share what I'm doing with him in little chunks so he doesn't tune out.

If I go before he does, he knows to stay away from the snake oil salesmen with their free dinners and variable annuity pitches and that just about all he has to do is rebalance on occasion...the rest is on autopilot.

 

[MBAustin]

... If I go before he does, he knows to stay away from the snake oil salesmen with their free dinners and variable annuity pitches ...

Those guys sure are busy these days - DH must get 2 or 3 mailed invites per week on average. Funny how they never send them to me when I make all the investment decisions

 

[kz]

Dh doesn't really participate in financial decisions other than the spending portion. He's really good at that! I remind him, frequently, we are now set up with Vanguard for the investments and the local credit union for CDs/savings. And I've given the info. to my DIL since I can trust her to help him out. I've done what I can over the years but he just doesn't care. Won't be my problem if I'm the one to go first. It may take some time but he'll figure it out.

 

[Sue J]

But, he's a very smart guy and I share what I'm doing with him in little chunks so he doesn't tune out.

My DH is intelligent, just not in a way that relates to money and numbers. He also tunes out if I don't relate financial info in little chunks. One time he got up to wander out of the room to escape and I had to stand in front of the doorway. It wasn't an argument, it was an update and all good news. He just gets itchy and restless when it comes to financial discussions. Just not his thing and he'll look for any distraction to not have to deal with it.

A few years ago Dave Ramsey had a nightly TV show. DH wouldn't watch it but I did and he'd hear it from another room and come in and comment about what dumb things other people do with their money. He usually agreed with DR but there's no way he would sit down and watch the show.

DH is much improved in his tolerance of money discussions since he's retired. If I let him know in advance he can sit through a spreadsheet and a few comments if I keep it under a few minutes. His eyes still glaze over but he never disagrees and he really does appreciate that I handle it all.

I can't imagine being that detached from your own financial life.

 

[RitaR551]

My DH is intelligent, just not in a way that relates to money and numbers. He also tunes out if I don't relate financial info in little chunks. One time he got up to wander out of the room to escape and I had to stand in front of the doorway. It wasn't an argument, it was an update and all good news. He just gets itchy and restless when it comes to financial discussions. Just not his thing and he'll look for any distraction to not have to deal with it.

A few years ago Dave Ramsey had a nightly TV show. DH wouldn't watch it but I did and he'd hear it from another room and come in and comment about what dumb things other people do with their money. He usually agreed with DR but there's no way he would sit down and watch the show.

DH is much improved in his tolerance of money discussions since he's retired. If I let him know in advance he can sit through a spreadsheet and a few comments if I keep it under a few minutes. His eyes still glaze over but he never disagrees and he really does appreciate that I handle it all.

I can't imagine being that detached from your own financial life.

I think our DH's must be related!

 

[Caroline]

Rethinking this since Papa's gone

My father-in-law (85) died 5 years back, my own father died last year (80), and my husband's uncle (83) died this month.

Each of these gentlemen left their wives with enough money to survive and even thrive -- NONE left his wife with the confidence to do so happily.

In my mother's case I tell her, her lawyer tells her, everyone tells her she has enough money (at 87) to support herself into her 100's. But she worries incessantly anyway. This is a woman who can't write a check, can't read a utility bill, and can't comprehend a bank statement. Her life is decidedly unhappy because she can't understand enough to believe what we're all telling her.

I'm her primary caretaker, and I'm exhausted. Not by managing her finances, which are simple enough, but by her endless fretting, worrying, questioning, and distrust of issues she never took the time to understand. She's convinced that the utilities, the credit union, the repairmen, the dentist, the doctor, the grocer... everyone is out to rob her blind (myself excepted, my siblings not).

NO amount of explaining will convince her otherwise.


Why am I boring you with this? Because, while part of this is probably her natural disposition, a large part is ignorance. I've learned that it's not enough simply to leave a solid financial reserve for your surviving spouse, -- it's vital that they understand it, also.

This may be a generational thing -- I hope so. But those who haven't educated their spouses, and / or are planning to leave their spouse's financial well-being to their children -- no matter how responsible those children are -- may be passing a significant emotional burden on to everyone involved. Especially if and when that spouse enters his / her 70s, 80s, and beyond.

I love my mother and will always take care of her, but our last years together might have been so much happier and more meaningful if she'd taken the time to understand her finances, or if my dad had insisted that she do so.

I currently take care of finances for DH and myself also, and I was OK with that until Papa died. No more. I'm getting DH on board and educated now -- for his own good and for my peace of mind.

End of lecture... if you got this far, thanks for listening...

 

[Texas Proud]

Caroline,


Sorry to hear about your various relatives, including your mother....

but with the ages you posted, I think it is more a generational thing... when my father died in 1980, my mother was not that good with finances... I got her to buy some Exxon stock... and some mutual funds.. then the market went down and she got a dividend from the mutual fund... she could not understand why she was paying taxes since the value was less than she paid...

Now forward 30 plus years and she still has that Exxon stock... and has reinvested all dividends... she has more money today than when she retired... but still spends like she was a miser....

She has changed a bit over the last few years, and we hope that she does a bit more since we are not sure how much longer she will be able to drive... we keep telling her that it is worth it for her to pay a cab driver $20 even if she is only going the 3 miles to her gym and grocery store... we will see if it is sinking in within a year or so....

 

[Midpack]

I've learned that it's not enough simply to leave a solid financial reserve for your surviving spouse, -- it's vital that they understand it, also.

Those who haven't educated their spouses --- may be passing a significant emotional burden on to everyone involved. Especially if and when that spouse enters his / her 70s, 80s, and beyond.

I'm getting DH on board and educated now -- for his own good and for my peace of mind.

I agree. But how, I'm all ears?

The situation just presented itself last again night, so I casually mentioned some education to DW. Her reaction 'I handle the bank account, the rest IS YOUR JOB!' And her financially illiterate mother was widowed about 25 years ago, living a modest life relying entirely on family to make decisions for her.

I have yet to find the key in 32 years, offering to teach her myself or via books & classes if she prefers...some people insist on being in poll category #3 it seems.

 

[W2R]

(being single again, I didn't vote)

When I was married, my ex would NOT deal with anything financial. He said that was my department. He couldn't even write a check. I tried to teach him how to do it, but he refused because he said I could do that so why should he learn? I tried and tried to show him how to do these things but he refused to learn, so I gave up.

I have to give him credit, though, because there was a good reason for this - - he went to sea for a living, so was off working in exotic oceans usually and not home even half the time. So, I really *had* to pay the bills and run the household since I was the only one predictably at home to do it. I knew that when I married him.

When we divorced after 23 years, he got everything. Still, after a year he moved in with his parents (who were only about 70 and in good health)... I guess his mother writes the checks for him now. When she dies he might have a problem.

Now as for my current steady boyfriend/companion of 12 years, he knows exactly how he wants to run his finances and he does it perfectly and accurately. I don't think he will make it to SS age doing what he is doing without running out of money, but he thinks he will so maybe he'll prove me wrong. In any case, we are not financially intermingled at this stage.

 

[foxfirev5]

I have made repeated attempts to discuss our finances with DW. One night I was trying to review our mutual funds and gave her an open ended question regarding what she would pick. She stated she like the looks of the high yield bond fund. I politely informed here that these are also known as junk bonds. Her reply - "One mans trash is anothers treasure" as she walked away.

 

[Nords]

My father-in-law (85) died 5 years back, my own father died last year (80), and my husband's uncle (83) died this month.
In my mother's case I tell her, her lawyer tells her, everyone tells her she has enough money (at 87) to support herself into her 100's. But she worries incessantly anyway. This is a woman who can't write a check, can't read a utility bill, and can't comprehend a bank statement. Her life is decidedly unhappy because she can't understand enough to believe what we're all telling her.
I'm her primary caretaker, and I'm exhausted. Not by managing her finances, which are simple enough, but by her endless fretting, worrying, questioning, and distrust of issues she never took the time to understand. She's convinced that the utilities, the credit union, the repairmen, the dentist, the doctor, the grocer... everyone is out to rob her blind (myself excepted, my siblings not).
Why am I boring you with this? Because, while part of this is probably her natural disposition, a large part is ignorance. I've learned that it's not enough simply to leave a solid financial reserve for your surviving spouse, -- it's vital that they understand it, also.
This may be a generational thing -- I hope so.

Caroline, I may be reading far too much into your post, but my perception is biased by reading a caregiver's book called "The 36-Hour Day". In addition to the temperament and "learned helplessness" phenomena you're describing, three other causes of that behavior are medication side effects, depression, and early dementia.

Of course you're also displaying the primary caregiver's signs of burnout. I hope you have a chance to read through the book, more for yourself if not for your mother.


In our house, when spouse turns 60 and her pension faucet is turned on, she's graciously volunteered to take over the bill payments. Considering that the electrical utility has just modernized their billing system and the water/sewer utility finally streamlined theirs, all it really means is that I'd show her where the autopilot switch is.

Then I overheard spouse telling our daughter that when spouse is 83 years old, she's putting our daughter in charge of the bills. So spouse already has her succession plan in place and she only ends up with one watch on a four-section duty roster...

I am going to have CINC House contact Nords and pay him a consulting fee to help her.
JDARNELL

Thanks, and I figure you guys have already banked 100 or so hours for all the contributions you've made to the book!

A neighbor up the street was recently widowed. Her eldest son (the newly designated family male in charge of finances) just deployed to Afghanistan. I've been appointed to the financial vacancy for the interim. But she's the neighbor who buys curry powder in five-pound bags, so this is a situation where I'm happy to work for food.

Now if I can just get her to come to the target range to learn how the shotgun works...

You could take the Claymore mine approach: "This End Toward Enemy".

 

[freebird5825]

Mr B is an accountant, so he has no trouble handling budgets and finances. However, he is strictly a stock investor. He owns no mutual funds.
I own nothing but mutual funds, with a few sprinkles of individual stocks.
His estate is currently set up for his children, which is appropriate. Mine is set up for philanthropy.
If we eventually marry, there will be some changes to both estate plans. TBD