PPACA (Obamacare) Draft Application Form -First Look

[shotgunner]

I came across a link today that took me to what is claimed to be a draft application form for Obamacare, the article is critical that it is too complex at 21 pages. It's only 21 pages for a family of six, considerably shorter for a single person like myself. The only question I have after looking it over is would having an in force HDHP with HSA at the time of application cause one to be denied a tax subsidy.

http://global.nationalreview.com/pdf/pdf_cms_2_031313.pdf

Applying for Obamacare could be painful- MSN Money

 

[obgyn65]

At least you can apply online, which should make the whole process easier.

 

[M Paquette]

This is the paper application, which will be used only by people who can't get to the online application, and don't use one of the community support services that will be working to enroll people who can't get online or who have literacy problems. The paper forms include several pages of instructions, and the insurance application paperwork for up to six persons. Since they are on dumb paper, the forms do not have access to the databases already containing much of the needed information.

No doubt there will be some cantankerous folks who will refuse to put their information into the infernal machines, and demand the paper forms. (Which some poor employee will then have to enter online for them, using a faster internal front end program.)

Very few folks will see these paper forms. Most individuals will be entering a small amount of information online themselves, or with a community support worker at a local library, church, or community center. (There are folks training for this, to assist people needing insurance who can't do the application themselves for various reasons.)

When someone does the online application process, they'll be able to check a box early in the process that permits their data to be presented in the online forms from the database systems holding selected tax return information and related items. The user will be asked to verify the information, or change it if it is inaccurate. The whole thing, including reading screens of explanatory material, will take minutes. Perhaps 30-40 minutes for very slow readers, 10 minutes for most of us ER types who have used a web site before.

 

[rbmrtn]

OK, the form is 21 pages but 12 of that is repeated, 2 pages for each applicant for personal info, 6 included in the form. 2 pages ask about current insurance, 2 pages apply only if you're american indian. You're done on page 18, the rest is instructions. It looks like I would have 5 pages to complete, I guess 6 if you count the signature page. Looks a lot easier than filling out one for individual HI and getting rejected.

If someone has trouble with a 1040EZ I guess this might be a problem.

 

[bUU]

Yes, the volume is very much attributable to the fact that instruction pages are included and that the paper form has room to enter most of the information asked for six times. Beyond that, I don't know of any information being solicited that is not a specific requirement of some tenet in the ACA aimed at saving the taxpayers money by withholding subsidy from applications who according to the law are deemed to be able to afford paying for the insurance through exclusively their own resources.

 

[FIRE'd@51]

Gee! How awful! Some work is required for a $10-15K subsidy!

The more unfortunate thing is the application process will be difficult for those who most need the subsidy, while barely a nuisance for those on this forum, who don't (or shouldn't) need a subsidy to ER.

 

[dtbach]

Gee! How awful! Some work is required for a $10-15K subsidy!

The more unfortunate thing is the application process will be difficult for those who most need the subsidy, while barely a nuisance for those on this forum, who don't (or shouldn't) need a subsidy to ER.

+1 Always amazes me how hard the government works to give away money.

 

[heeyy_joe]

There is nothing in the draft instructions that tell you how to fill out the form if your application is the result of a life event (i.e. job loss, retiring, etc). I can foresee the Dept of Labor getting slammed with questions unless these obvious events are not examples in the instructions.

 

[Throwdownmyaceinthehole]

I see there is a line for total income this year and next year. And my understanding is that the subsidy is really a tax credit, so if I have lower/higher income than on this form, I will either get back a tax credit or pay more - is that correct? So if I am employed at high wages now, then retire, I may have to pay insurance during the next year, but will get it refunded at tax time??

 

[pb4uski]

The ultimate subsidy will be based on your income for the year of the subsidy - in other words, your 2014 subsidy will be based on your 2014 income.

Since your 2014 income will not be known when the subsidies begin in early 2014, the subsidies you actually receive in 2014 will be based on your 2012 income. When you do your 2014 tax return you will calculate what your 2014 subsidy should have been based on your 2014 income. If the subsidies you received in 2014 exceed what you were entitled to based on your 2014 income you will pay the government the difference. If the subsidy you were entitled to based on your 2014 income exceeds the subsidies you received, the government will pay you the difference.

It looks like there may be some mechanism to anticipate significant changes in income given the nature of the questions (perhaps sort of like they do with college financial aid) but I haven't heard anything about that.

 

[Live And Learn]

The ultimate subsidy will be based on your income for the year of the subsidy - in other words, your 2014 subsidy will be based on your 2014 income.

Since your 2014 income will not be known when the subsidies begin in early 2014, the subsidies you actually receive in 2014 will be based on your 2012 income. When you do your 2014 tax return you will calculate what your 2014 subsidy should have been based on your 2014 income. If the subsidies you received in 2014 exceed what you were entitled to based on your 2014 income you will pay the government the difference. If the subsidy you were entitled to based on your 2014 income exceeds the subsidies you received, the government will pay you the difference.

It looks like there may be some mechanism to anticipate significant changes in income given the nature of the questions (perhaps sort of like they do with college financial aid) but I haven't heard anything about that.

Other threads have suggested that there will be a separate list of doctors for 'full freight' payers and for subsidized plans. How does that work into this equation ? Do I get to go to good doctors my first year of retirement because I'll be using my "while w*rking" salary to determine which list I'm on and then have to go to the crummy doctors after that when they figure out that I'm on a subsidized plan ?

 

[gerrym51]

Other threads have suggested that there will be a separate list of doctors for 'full freight' payers and for subsidized plans. How does that work into this equation ? Do I get to go to good doctors my first year of retirement because I'll be using my "while w*rking" salary to determine which list I'm on and then have to go to the crummy doctors after that when they figure out that I'm on a subsidized plan ?

its not that separate for subsidized/not subsidized but many doctore will not take medicaid rates because they are too low.

the subsidized planes use medicaid rates.

in fact in massachusettes-were i live-and signed up for a full pay plan-the form to be filled out for the subsidy IS the same form used to apply for medicaid

 

[Brett_Cameron]

+1 Always amazes me how hard the government works to give away money.

Somewhat off-topic:

I looked at the FAFSA (Free Application for Federal Student Aid). It is also a nightmare. DD said that at registration at some community colleges the line for FAFSA registration takes several hours.

(Un) Fortunately, DS16 and DS9 will not get any of that assistance.

End of off-topic:

I don't expect that there will be need or any way for us to get any subsidy.

 

[pb4uski]

Other threads have suggested that there will be a separate list of doctors for 'full freight' payers and for subsidized plans. How does that work into this equation ? Do I get to go to good doctors my first year of retirement because I'll be using my "while w*rking" salary to determine which list I'm on and then have to go to the crummy doctors after that when they figure out that I'm on a subsidized plan ?

Dunno on that. I suspect that docs will base decisions on who they will see based on the insurer/plan covering the patient and how easy or difficult the insurer/plan is to deal with and not whether the premium is subsidized or not.

 

[gerrym51]

Dunno on that. I suspect that docs will base decisions on who they will see based on the insurer/plan covering the patient and not whether the premium is subsidized or not.

i can't speak for everywhere-but in mass all the subsidized plans use medicaid networks and reibursements and fewer doctors take it.

 

[marko]

Other threads have suggested that there will be a separate list of doctors for 'full freight' payers and for subsidized plans. How does that work into this equation ? Do I get to go to good doctors my first year of retirement because I'll be using my "while w*rking" salary to determine which list I'm on and then have to go to the crummy doctors after that when they figure out that I'm on a subsidized plan ?

So, the subsidized plans will be a different "class" that BCBS and the like? I was under the impression that the subsidies would apply to any plan.

Right now, (here in Mass) my Dr only accepts the "private pay"/larger carries.

 

[pb4uski]

i can't speak for everywhere-but in mass all the subsidized plans use medicaid networks and reibursements and fewer doctors take it.

But my understanding is for private insurance (not medicaid) that claims will be between the doc, patient and insurer as it is today for private insurance and the doc will have no way of knowing whether the premium is subsidized or not. Just like today the doc has no way of knowing and doesn't care about the degree of employer subsidy of employer provided insurance.

 

[gerrym51]

But my understanding is for private insurance (not medicaid) that claims will be between the doc, patient and insurer as it is today for private insurance and the doc will have no way of knowing whether the premium is subsidized or not. Just like today the doc has no way of knowing and doesn't care about the degree of employer subsidy of employer provided insurance.

in mass the plans can be different under the same insurance company.

for instance an insurance company can sell plan A to full players.
it can sell plan B to subsidized payers. still same insurance company.

a doctor can contract to take Plan A.

he can elect not to take PLAN B.(which offers less reimbursement)

 

[REWahoo]

in mass the plans can be different under the same insurance company.

for instance an insurance company can sell plan A to full players.
it can sell plan B to subsidized payers. still same insurance company.

a doctor can contract to take Plan A.

he can elect not to take PLAN B.(which offers less reimbursement)

That's not the way Obamacare is going to work.

I don't see any choice of participation or non participation by a doctor based on whether a plan is subsidized. Subsidies are tax credits that go directly to the taxpayer/individual paying the premiums for health insurance. There will be no difference in the type of policies an individual can buy as everyone will be buying from the same group of policies offered by their state through the state or federal exchange.

If that's the case, there is no such thing as a subsidized vs non-subsidized plan, only subsidized vs. non subsidized individuals.

 

[bondi688]

I need a job. Where I can put in the application to become a government worker who process those applications, figure out and hand out the subsidy and implement the Act?

 

[REWahoo]

Where I can put in the application to become a government worker who process those applications, figure out and hand out the subsidy and implement the Act?

You need to apply to the IRS, since that's where the vast majority of subsidy decisions and payments will come from.

 

[gerrym51]

That's not the way Obamacare is going to work.

I don't see any choice of participation or non participation by a doctor based on whether a plan is subsidized. Subsidies are tax credits that go directly to the taxpayer/individual paying the premiums for health insurance. There will be no difference in the type of policies an individual can buy as everyone will be buying from the same group of policies offered by their state through the state or federal exchange.

If that's the case, there is no such thing as a subsidized vs non-subsidized plan, only subsidized vs. non subsidized individuals.

all i can tell you is how it is in mass. i saw on another thread here a chart from california that seemed to be the exact opposite.

i think what will happen is this. if you go to a exchange it will do like in mass. if no subsidy click here. If subsidy needed click here.

then they will have bronze,silver,gold,platinum , the plans will be the same only the amount of providers will be different.

 

[REWahoo]

i think what will happen is this. if you go to a exchange it will do like in mass. if no subsidy click here. If subsidy needed click here.

then they will have bronze,silver,gold,platinum , the plans will be the same only the amount of providers will be different.

I don't think so as I can find nothing that indicates this will be the case. The ACA isn't exactly like what you have in Mass and believe this is an example of how they differ - but only time will tell for sure.

 

[gerrym51]

I don't think so as I can find nothing that indicates this will be the case. The ACA isn't exactly like what you have in Mass and believe this is an example of how they differ - but only time will tell for sure.

i don't do links. go to thread not all insurance plans subsidized by ACA.

got to post #32. there is a link to a chart in California that just shows subsidized plans and why this is confusing

its all insurance plans not subsidized by ACA in the health and early retirement

 

[marko]

That's not the way Obamacare is going to work.

I don't see any choice of participation or non participation by a doctor based on whether a plan is subsidized. Subsidies are tax credits that go directly to the taxpayer/individual paying the premiums for health insurance. There will be no difference in the type of policies an individual can buy as everyone will be buying from the same group of policies offered by their state through the state or federal exchange.

If that's the case, there is no such thing as a subsidized vs non-subsidized plan, only subsidized vs. non subsidized individuals.

I hope you're right on this one. As someone noted above, here in Mass, the current'exchange' plans are viewed as a middle ground between Medicaid and a "full freight" provider. Not all Drs accept exchange plans.