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Old 05-08-2014, 02:46 PM   #81
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We buy these honey peanut butter cookie treats for the dog from costco...

She'd fed them to FIL and he loved them. Thought they were little cookies.

(Fortunately, the ingredients are pretty much the same as human cookies.)

Your inlaws are Italian, correct? So, they could not read the package to see that it said "Pampered Pets". Good thing that it is really "good stuff" and made with "human-grade ingredient".

Come to think of it, humans would not die for eating dog and cat food. We are of the same class as pigs, who can eat anything. If anything, dogs and cats cannot eat the stuff that humans can, like chocolate for dogs. The only thing that may make a person cringe is the taste, and if something tastes good like your inlaws found, then it's all OK. Bon Appétit!
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Old 05-08-2014, 02:53 PM   #82
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Your inlaws are Italian, correct? So, they could not read the package to see that it said "Pampered Pets". Good thing that it is really "good stuff" and made with "human-grade ingredient".

Come to think of it, humans would not die for eating dog and cat food. We are of the same class as pigs, who can eat anything. If anything, dogs and cats cannot eat the stuff that humans can, like chocolate for dogs. The only thing that may make a person cringe is the taste, and if something tastes good like your inlaws found, then it's all OK. Bon Appétit!
They were born here, to Italian parents. She is the ultimate LBYM stretch a penny till it screams woman... growing up in the depression does that to a person.

She was probably mad at FIL when she gave him the first one. He loved it so she gave him the rest. She knew they were dog treats but also knew they were "gourmet". LOL.
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Old 05-08-2014, 03:01 PM   #83
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Please let us know the result when your MIL gets her husband to sample the cat "Pâté".

Heck, it may save me the trouble of making it myself, though I have not seen cat food made with Cognac.
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Old 05-08-2014, 03:20 PM   #84
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Please let us know the result when your MIL gets her husband to sample the cat "Pâté".

Heck, it may save me the trouble of making it myself, though I have not seen cat food made with Cognac.
Unfortunately, he's no longer living and able to sample the finer foods she might entice him with.
If I were being snarky I might say it was the dog biscuits. But I thing it was old age and dementia.

One interesting aspect of dementia for him (bringing this back to food) - he went from being an incredibly picky eater when he was younger, to enjoying absolutely every kind of food for the last few years. Food was something he looked forward to with gusto. It was fun to see how his face would light up at mealtime. For example - he had traditionally hated rice. (No idea how someone can hate rice -but I learned that one the hard way when I made Paella the first time I had them over when I was engaged to my husband.) At the end he would totally smile and wolf down rice dishes.
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Old 05-08-2014, 03:22 PM   #85
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I had my say, here:
Sharing 23 years of Frugal Retirement

Quote:
Posting this here, as it's personal, and not either a recommendation or a request for validation... Just a bit more of "FRUGAL".

STUFF WE DON'T SPEND MONEY ON

Life Insurance
New Clothing
Haircuts
Hair styling
Pedicures/manicures
Beauty products
Movies
Concerts
Sporting events
Restaurants (more than $8 meal)
Books
Music
"New" Computers (since 2002)... all refurb or reclaim
Software... (Twice in lifetime.. total $30) all other "free"
Car maintenance labor... all DIY except 3 times for major repairs
Brand vs. Generic foods
Premium meat or fish
Financial Advisor
Lawyer
Chiro/Massage/Tan etc.
Tatoos...
New Home Decor.. (all resale)
Cars.. since 1998...
Car Wash and wax... since 1989
Premium TV channels
New Bikes or Exercise equipment
Sporting goods
Cruises (so far)
Group trips
Flying (Airlines)
Lodging (more than 3 star)
Premium Gasoline
Tools (already have more than I'll ever use, including welders etc.)
Housekeeper
Carpet Cleaning
Window/Gutter/Furnace etc. Cleaning... all DIY
Premium booze/wine...
Jewelry
Organic foods
Brand sodas
Painting, remodeling
Weapons
Subscriptions (AARP only)
Gambling
Banking or Credit Card Fees
Appliance or Electonics insurance
Eye Glasses... except for $1readers (since 2000... maybe eye test this year.)
Pets... (except bird feed)
Healthcare maintenance... exercise equipment, pool, advisor etc... (all included in our senior community membership. (no fees)
Pest control... DIY
Only "fee for" is Activities Association (FL).. $6/year

.... for starters...
But the article reminded me of when my 13 year old son ran away from home, many, many years ago... and came back from living in the woods for 2 days... bragging about the "tuna" he had bought for only $.10/can.
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Old 05-08-2014, 03:34 PM   #86
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I am not sure I even personally know any retired folks then. My grandparents worked the farm until they died (even though their SS and pensions easily covered their expenses). My dad (on SS and executive's pension) manages his rental properties and has a young working wife. My mom babysits for the neighbors a few hours a week to supplement her small SS and pension. MIL receives large alimony payments from her working ex-husband to supplement her SS and annuities. All my aunts and uncles have part time jobs (from ironing/tailoring clothes to managing rentals to making and selling firewood). They'd all tell you that they are retired, but I guess that's not good enough for this crowd's exacting standards.
They are semi-retired - if there such a thing. Either someone is retired or not retired. It is like either your are pregnant or not.
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Old 05-08-2014, 03:57 PM   #87
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They are semi-retired - if there such a thing. Either someone is retired or not retired. It is like either your are pregnant or not.
Like I said, then I don't know anyone who is retired.
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Old 05-08-2014, 04:31 PM   #88
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As bad as cat food smells going into the cat, no wonder it stinks so bad coming out the other end!

Having a small source of income from a hobby or passive activity still meets my definition of being retired. As long as you do no actually go to a job with a paycheck, you are retired. Fuego may be stretching my definition of retired only because his wife still has regular job. I am willing to give Fuego benefit of considered retired since he gave up regular job and has adopted a lifestyle to keep his expenses at or under his income stream without a regular paycheck job.
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Retired Aug 2, 2017; age 53
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Old 05-08-2014, 04:43 PM   #89
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I posted in another thread that disputed that in couples where one spouse works the other can't be considered retired. I had issues with it there and have issues with it here.

Fuego says they can afford to have his wife quit. She's chosen not to. I believe him. He's posted details on their frugal living and budget - so he's walking the walk of LBYM.

The fact that they have school age children changes things? The fact that he's married changes things?

We have school age children. My husband IS retired. I hope to join him in 48 weeks (or less - my bs bucket at work might tip this week.)

We have enough money to live off our investments and income streams now. So does my working effect my husbands retirement status? I think not.

And the definition that you can only be FIREd if you're living off dividends alone is absolutely ridiculous. Lots of retired people living on Pensions, SS, Rental income (managed by others). Lots of people with withdrawal rates that will end with no money in the nest egg when they kick it at age 90 or 100... are they not retired because they are drawing down their principal?

The label police need to get a grip.
+1

Thanks for speaking up.
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Old 05-08-2014, 04:49 PM   #90
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As bad as cat food smells going into the cat, no wonder it stinks so bad coming out the other end!

Having a small source of income from a hobby or passive activity still meets my definition of being retired. As long as you do no actually go to a job with a paycheck, you are retired. Fuego may be stretching my definition of retired only because his wife still has regular job. I am willing to give Fuego benefit of considered retired since he gave up regular job and has adopted a lifestyle to keep his expenses at or under his income stream without a regular paycheck job.
In that case I was retired by entire life, since once I left my post college employment with an employer who made me an offer I couldn't refuse, I never again had a paycheck The point is being muddled. The point is, ER gurus are selling their status as special ER people, and the younger the better.

Since we cannot audit their finances, I think that unless the story is very convincing, and also the apparent lifestyle seems very desirable, the prudent person pays little attention.

My former wife made a point of never taking fitness advice from anyone who did not look very fit, health advice from a smoker, beauty advice from someone not so good looking, weight loss advice from someone not trim, or money advice from someone who was not rich by his own efforts in business or investing.

Overall, I think she had good rules here.

Ha
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Old 05-08-2014, 05:04 PM   #91
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Sorry, folks, your retirement status has nothing to do with your spouse's retirement status. These are, in fact, orthogonal concerns. No connection.

Financial independence is another matter. And I don't think any of us is qualified to tell another person whether they are, or are not, financially independent. That depends on their ability to make life decisions without regard for the constraint of holding a job. (And, yes, if you own and run a business, that is a job.)

Ok, now, carry on.
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Old 05-08-2014, 05:08 PM   #92
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................ The point is being muddled. The point is, ER gurus are selling their status as special ER people, and the younger the better.

Since we cannot audit their finances, I think that unless the story is very convincing, and also the apparent lifestyle seems very desirable, the prudent person pays little attention.

........

Ha
This is my view also, especially since I read one of the posts (something along the lines of "Retiring at 35"). Spelled out in the plan was the intention to not ever pay back ~80K in student loans. One can not accept much of what is said after that !
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Old 05-08-2014, 06:02 PM   #93
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The point is, ER gurus are selling their status as special ER people, and the younger the better.

Since we cannot audit their finances, I think that unless the story is very convincing, and also the apparent lifestyle seems very desirable, the prudent person pays little attention.
+1. I find some convincing, especially if there are no kids and there is just one or two people living in a low cost of living country with reasonable health care costs. But for some the numbers are simply implausible, the budgets leave a lot of normal expenses out, there is no planning for cost increases for old age, aging parents or kids turning into teenagers, or there are no allowances for down markets or sequence of return risk, let alone what would happen if someone in the family got cancer or some other serious illness and maxed out the health insurance deductibles for years and years.

I think it is okay to not plan for the Zombie attack or asteroid. I personally wouldn't ER without having enough money to cover a serious illness of a family member or two. That happens to families all the time.
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Old 05-08-2014, 09:40 PM   #94
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The fact that they have school age children changes things? The fact that he's married changes things?

We have school age children. My husband IS retired. I hope to join him in 48 weeks (or less - my bs bucket at work might tip this week.)
I do not believe being married necessarily changes anything. But what about having school age children?

I would get my face figuratively slapped if I said that stay-at-home moms are retired because they do not work (especially if I said this around Mother's Day). I would be "educated" about the difficulties and stresses mothers face. I would be told that mothers work 100 hrs/week and that this work is valued at over $100K/yr in the labor force (as chauffeurs, cooks, psychologists, etc). It sounds like a tough working life. And if I object to such claims or call them absurd - or stupid - people will tell me that I am misogynistic, hate my mother, and spit on cute puppies.

Yet your husband is a stay-at-home dad. Presumably, he is slaving away in this role. How can he possibly be retired when he works 100 hrs/week as a SAHD? Now, perhaps it is only SAHM's that work 100 hrs/week and SAHD's are lazy bums who take advantage of their hardworking wives. But it sounds like you too will be a stay-at-home parent in less than a year. And both of you will be considered retired. Good for you.

I'm fairly agnostic about the issue but I see a tremendous contradiction. I'm not saying you're making this contradiction. I'm speaking about societal perceptions. It can't go both ways. Either 1) stay-at-home parents are not retired because they are performing difficult/stressful jobs that are comparatively valued at $100K/yr in the labor force; or 2) stay-at-home parents are retired because this role is much easier and/or rewarding than the role of the average paid worker.

I cannot pick and choose. Your husbands work will not change once you retire (although perhaps it will be cut in half). If I believe that your husband is a retired stay-at-home parent, then I do not see how I can avoid applying the retiree label to essentially all stay-at-home parents.
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Old 05-08-2014, 10:41 PM   #95
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So if you have obligations (taking care of child, taking care of an aging parent, running a vacuum periodically) you aren't retired?

My husband WAS working for a salary AND an involved parent. Now he's just an involved parent. I see that as a change in his work status - not his parenting status.

When the kids are off at college, will he be retired then?
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Old 05-08-2014, 11:23 PM   #96
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There seems to be a great deal of status conferred by the word Retired. Years ago I would have felt a social stigma, now it seems it is a badge of honor. I mean your life is what it is, you do a lot of things, have income from different sources, retired or not if life is good it is good, if it sucks it sucks. Other than being able to blog about it, I really don't get why it is so important have the official badge. Heck, I still call myself a consultant as I have been for well over 30 years (well okay, sometimes I say I am retired), I don't care if people see me as retired or not. What is all the fuss. Geez.
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Old 05-09-2014, 04:43 AM   #97
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There seems to be a great deal of status conferred by the word Retired. Years ago I would have felt a social stigma, now it seems it is a badge of honor. I mean your life is what it is, you do a lot of things, have income from different sources, retired or not if life is good it is good, if it sucks it sucks. Other than being able to blog about it, I really don't get why it is so important have the official badge. Heck, I still call myself a consultant as I have been for well over 30 years (well okay, sometimes I say I am retired), I don't care if people see me as retired or not. What is all the fuss. Geez.
I don't think it's so important at all. I raised the fuss here because it gets lots of search activity and pays well because there's a lot of money in managing or telling other people how to manage their money.

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The point is, ER gurus are selling their status as special ER people, and the younger the better.
Some of us are rubbed a little wrong by that, especially when their creds are questionable.
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Old 05-09-2014, 08:01 AM   #98
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I think Little Enis Burdette said it best on "Smokey and the Bandit"...

"A retiree and an out of work bum look an awful lot alike, Daddy!"

Well, okay, he said "legend" and not "retiree", but it kinda fits!
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Old 05-09-2014, 09:02 AM   #99
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One thing I get from the PET STORE for human consumption is fish Antibiotics.

It's actually the same exact pills that are sold by perscription, it's just relabled for fish use.

Fish Antibiotics | Preparedness Pro
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Old 05-09-2014, 09:13 AM   #100
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One thing I get from the PET STORE for human consumption is fish Antibiotics.

It's actually the same exact pills that are sold by perscription, it's just relabled for fish use.

Fish Antibiotics | Preparedness Pro
OK, I just skimmed the article, but it does make sense from an 'economy of scale' view that those fish antibiotics are identical to the human counterparts.

However, as I recall, amoxicillin is dirt cheap (my co-pay was just a few bucks?). For the rare times I've needed it for the family, the savings (if any) would be trivial.

-ERD50
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