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Old 10-08-2019, 08:08 AM   #21
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"If you sign up today, we will give you an additional X% discount."

Uh, there's the door, don't let it hit you on the way out.
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Old 10-08-2019, 08:09 AM   #22
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Anything mentioning guaranteed returns (unless it's a CD)
Anything saying "now, no one can truly guarantee returns, but...." - (+bs bs bs)
Anything quoting returns over 10% (despite the "past results are not indicative of future..blah blah)

Or really any sales pitch at all.
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Old 10-08-2019, 08:09 AM   #23
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DW was sold an annuity after her husband died to "protect her assets from creditors" BS!
When it came time ti roll it over, she was offered a 9% bonus if she went with a certain plan. It turns out it had higher fees than the one she was in, and at year 3 she would be in the hole. I gave the spreadsheet to the salesman, and he just shook his head, as he had never done that,
I had a broker try to talk me into a QLAC to minimize my RMD. I looked into it and found that if I was lucky, I would get my principal back at age 85.
Another broker tried to get me into a fund with a front end load. Not going to happen!
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Old 10-08-2019, 08:10 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelB View Post
My radar goes up when people talk about decades of above average investment performance and then offer to help me.
Yeah, 25 years is the minimum I'll accept!
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Old 10-08-2019, 08:36 AM   #25
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If its free, you're the product.

Would you buy X without the incentive?

When someone you haven't talked to in years, reaches out to you for just a "coffee."
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Old 10-08-2019, 09:53 AM   #26
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Anything that is being marketed, especially anything being sold on tv by a familiar celebrity, but including anything sold by someone emphasizing a social bond like being in the same club, church, town etc.



Anything that has a "rush" quality where you need to act now to get in on this deal.



Anything confusing or unclear.
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Old 10-08-2019, 02:54 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jollyquick View Post
Whenever a thirty something financial advisor offers their advice...
When they solicit door to door. Anyone crazy enough to knock on my door is crazy enough to get rejected.

True story, an EJ rep (that happened to be a thin, young, vibrantly blonde and good looking gal) managed to get my buddy to sign-up for his first investment account ehem, I mean product with EJ after years of me soliciting him to begin investing...

Guess my hair wasn't blonde enough..or maybe I wasn't skinny enough?

Edit to add, this door knocking red flag is universal and not specific to investing. It can be applied when people are knocking to try and sell you...
1. A new roof
2. Steaks from their van
3. Bug Spray for your land
4. Religious advice

But if you show up with Girl Scout cookies, you won't get rejected, trust me!
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Old 10-13-2019, 06:23 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kgtest View Post

Edit to add, this door knocking red flag is universal and not specific to investing. It can be applied when people are knocking to try and sell you...

2. Steaks from their van
I had to laugh when I read the “steaks from a van” line. I remember a couple of years ago I was at a gas station pumping my gas. A van pulled in and a guy jumps out and tried to sell me meat including steaks. He even had a laminated sheet of his products.

I can just imagine inviting everyone over for a cookout and having this conversation:

Friend/Family member: “this tastes great, where did you get it?”

Me: “Well you won’t believe this but I was filling my car up with gas one day and....”

Gas station van steaks probably wouldn’t be the best steaks I’ve eaten.
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Old 10-13-2019, 09:47 AM   #29
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Years ago at a church I attended we had our own version of Bernie Madoff.

A very charming, friendly person joined the church. He quickly become involved in various committees and volunteered to do things like work the yearly Lady's dinner where the men made a nice dinner for the ladies of the church. He treated everybody well. Occasionally, he would drop a comment that indicated he was 'well connected' but he never boasted about it. He had a big house in the hills, drove two nice cars, his family vacationed in fabulous places. Again, he never bragged about it. It just came up in conversation.

Sure enough several people at the church got involved with him in a business venture. It was some sort of deal where the company, using new methods, would redo your bathroom - new tile, new fixtures, new cabinets, refinish tubs and showers etc. in only a few days for a remarkably low price. Needless to say all those who 'invested' in his great business venture never saw their money again. The last I heard he got divorced (apparently he conned his beautiful trophy wife also) and disappeared. The big house and cars were leased. The fancy vacations and the other trappings of wealth where put on credit cards that were never paid off.

My red flag is charming, friendly, helpful, subtle big talkers who I have known less than five years.
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Old 10-13-2019, 10:04 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuckanut View Post
... My red flag is charming, friendly, helpful, subtle big talkers who I have known less than five years.
Your post reminded me of this:
Avoiding brokers and advisors is harder than it seems, since they’re liable to be your old college roommate, brother-in-law, or church or service organization member. The best way of solving this problem is to deftly change the subject when these folks bring the conversation around to finance or, if you don’t mind a little fibbing, to tell them that you have no interest in money management. However you choose to handle this, a ready routine for deflecting approaches from friends and relations in the finance industry is an essential survival skill.
It's from a very short and worthwhile paper by William Bernstein: https://www.etf.com/docs/IfYouCan.pdf
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Old 10-13-2019, 10:18 AM   #31
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Old 10-13-2019, 11:40 AM   #32
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Ok just found another. Anything that involves a paradigm shift. That one I’d forgotten about. I came across it in a description of the Velocity Banking strategy.
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Old 10-13-2019, 03:57 PM   #33
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Anyone or any outfit who tries to make me feel like I do not have enough already.
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Old 10-13-2019, 04:45 PM   #34
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I worry when I see expensive suits and watches.
Doesn't always play out as I just helped mom with a lawyer that wore a watch worth more than my car, but he was very good. Guess "Empty Suit Syndrome" bit me in the butt to many times at work.
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Old 10-13-2019, 06:03 PM   #35
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There is a good book called "Boundaries" by Cloud and Townsend. I have never finished reading it, but I understand the basic premise.

My red flags are any time any one violates my boundaries. If you enter my personal space (including my house, my car, my mind, or me in any context where it's clear I'm not open to interaction - like swimming laps at the pool) without consent. If you ask my opinion on things needlessly or out of context. If you inquire about my finances in any way. If you try to change my opinion or challenge my beliefs needlessly or out of context. If you offer to help me or advise me when I haven't asked you for help or advice.

Nowadays, it seems I can tell someone is selling something on the radio within about 5 seconds of changing the station. Something in their voice or the way they talk gives it away in seconds. I then change the channel elsewhere.

People who really care about me will respect me and my boundaries.
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Old 10-13-2019, 06:46 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jazz4cash View Post
A pitch or presentation using what I consider “trigger words” that are intended to evoke an emotional response vs a rational one:
Wall Street casino
Crash
Crisis
Always
Never
Free
etc
Here's another: proprietary algorithm
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Old 10-14-2019, 03:51 AM   #37
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Big hat, no cattle.
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Old 10-14-2019, 06:45 AM   #38
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.... People who really care about me will respect me and my boundaries.
All of that assumes that they know or correctly interpret where your boundaries are... it could be that they care and misinterpret where the border is.
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Old 10-14-2019, 06:46 AM   #39
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Big hat, no cattle.
+1 and braggarts in general.... if you're really good there is no need to brag about it or toot your own horn... it'll be know by word or mouth or by your actions.
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Old 10-14-2019, 09:44 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by pb4uski View Post
All of that assumes that they know or correctly interpret where your boundaries are... it could be that they care and misinterpret where the border is.
Sure. In practice it has usually been very easy for me to distinguish between the two scenarios (scammer vs. hapless friend) in the very rare cases where the ambiguity exists.
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