Should we help my deadbeat father out of foreclosure trouble?

How do you know losing the house is "bad" in the bigger scheme of things?

Another choice to add to your list:

Let the course of natural consequences give him yet another chance to learn - and a motivation grow up and change his behavior.

Think of the lost of equity as "tuition." Some people require more tuition than others to "get it".

Having said that, I would like to acknowledge that it is very hard, but likely very necessary, for you to keep repeating, "I'm sorry you are going through this, but I can't help you financially."

Kindest regards.
 
MichaelB said:
This is a tough group. Maybe Mrstop senior has a problem with his wiring and just cannot make the "right" choices in life. I would not advise OP Mrstop to enable or subsidize his father in any way, and it is not clear his father would even cooperate with any of the options being discussed here. But if his were my situation I would try go get the $100k equity out of the house, help the Mrstop senior get into a senior home of some type, and use that money to help support him. It is possible Mrstop senior will not (or can not) cooperate and end up losing everything.

I would also contact county health and senior care departments to see what support programs are available. Housing options as well, because Mrstop senior will soon be homeless and need a place to stay.
Click to expand...

+1
Agree whole heatedly. There are many people like your Dad. They lack capacity period. I am sure your dad had some redeeming qualities as well, or you wouldn't feel the way you do. I agree not to enable his continuing pattern, but I don't agree not to try and help in some way.
 
MichaelB said:
This is a tough group. Maybe Mrstop senior has a problem with his wiring and just cannot make the "right" choices in life. I would not advise OP Mrstop to enable or subsidize his father in any way, and it is not clear his father would even cooperate with any of the options being discussed here. But if his were my situation I would try go get the $100k equity out of the house, help the Mrstop senior get into a senior home of some type, and use that money to help support him. It is possible Mrstop senior will not (or can not) cooperate and end up losing everything.

I would also contact county health and senior care departments to see what support programs are available. Housing options as well, because Mrstop senior will soon be homeless and need a place to stay.
Click to expand...

Yeh, this group is really tough. I am more in your camp. I think sometimes people forget that as human beings we are flawed. We often blame people for their circumstances without considering that some people may suffer from undiagnosed mental illness, may be handicapped by their limited education, their upbring, their ignorances, their dependence on drugs and alcohol and the list goes on and on. I've lived long enough to realize how fortunate I am because despite my upbringing and influence I saw around me, I turned out right. I didn't turn out right because I made the right choices all on my own. I turned out right because there was intervention in my life and exposure at some point to different values than what I saw around me. Even my choice of career came by what I saw around me. I got my first job in a big company and I saw that the people who made money were all those with the business degrees, especially accounting and I realized my degree in sociology wasn't going to cut it so I went to grad school and got the degree that was more marketable. Let's not be so self righteous because this could have been one of us.
 
Should we help my deadbeat father out of foreclosure trouble?

No. He's the "parent" isn't he, and should take on the responsibility.

I would never ask my son to be responsible for "my sins" in life.

Just my simple POV..
 
Helen said:
I have to agree with this. He's dug himself in too far and there are no good options left.
Click to expand...
That is not true. He has negotiated a $75k payoff for his mortgage and he has refused to consider an offer close to $275k for his house. He knows exactly what he is doing. Leave him alone.

I had a neighbour who tried to lean on me for financial support. I just said NO! We are still friends. The people that loaned him money are no longer friends.
 
I am a hardcore meany but I do not see any upside in letting your dad lose the equity in the house. That equity could at some time in the future be inherited by you and your brother. It seems to me that you do need to help him to keep the house but at the same time minimize your exposure. Co-signing would be entirely out of the question IMO. Perhaps you and your brother could pay off the loan and in exchange have your dad sign a loan contract between the three of you with the house as collateral. If he does not make payments you could repossess. With his lifestyle and financial choices he is going to lose the house. Better for him to lose it to you and your brother and you could then help him with living expenses in exchange for the profit you should be able to make on the house.
 
I'm not one for doing the guilt thing. If dad is bailed out this time, give it a year and he'll be back for more. Then you're in way too deep to find an easy way out. And all the money and emotions you put into "saving" him the first time will be doubled and tripled. There's only so much money and emotion to go around and if you give it to someone who has no appreciation or respect for himself or others - and takes advantage of biological relationships - then you're short-selling your own spouse and children.

It's pretty easy to just say no. Then expect the tantrums and the "you owe me" lines and at that point you'll know you made the right decision.

You did right by refusing to co-sign. If a bank requires a co-signer, then the applicant is already in over his/her head financially. If the bank knows enough to be wary about this whole situation, maybe that's a flag for you to also step back.
 
His old age is going to be hell. There is nothing you can, or should, do about it. He will hate you, yell at you, try to throw some guilt trip on you just to get the "fix" for his financial junkie lifestyle. He should have planned his life better. Now, he has to pay the piper. He is 67, there is no reason he can't work for the next 15-20 years to atone will the "retired lifestyle" he has enjoyed since the 70's as per your post.
 
mrstop said:
He has already negotiated down the payoff on the loans. It would take a leap of faith and trust on my part, but could I payoff the loans in cash (directly to the bank) to settle the debt then transfer the title afterwards?
Click to expand...

I have a certain amount of experience on the subject being a member of a broken family/divorce.

I think that you've given all the reasons why you shouldn't go through with this and just walk away.

I could go on and reiterate all those reasons with my own spin, but I don't think it would be worth the effort. The above statement of yours made me slap my head - because we both have a pretty good guess that dad would then refuse to transfer the title, and then what? You just gave him a house for free.

I cannot see how you could even consider this as you've made clear that it's not like you have the money to simply throw away.

My view isn't harsh at all - I think it's a dose of reality...and I think that you know it already.

Consider your own wife/kids/mother before you are willing to provide even one cent of support to this man. A father means more than the biological donor who brought you into this world.

Good luck with your decision.
 
leaving numbers aside for the moment...

This is a difficult place to be -- I know from a similar experience.

One way to try to think your way out of the problem is to play with the scenarios and the numbers -- this will work...that won't... what if I buy this... what if I try to get him to do that...

But in the end, the EMOTIONAL side is the real problem here, in my experience and IMHO. If he were a stranger on the street, there wouldn't be an issue -- not your problem. A stranger couldn't guilt or shame or beg you into helping, because you have your core family to care for and protect first.

Your father seems like a semi-stranger in many ways, but at the end of the day, it's your tenuous tie to him that's causing the distress. The real problelm is your fear of the guilt and shame you'll experience if you do nothing and the worst happens.

So... what I do in these cases is try to live for 24 or 48 hours with that reality. What if you do nothing, and your father loses his house, and is forced to live on social security in low-income housing? Can you live with that? Can you say, THEN, that he made his bed? Or will you be eating your heart out wishing you'd done something different? Will his NEW demands for your assistance (and there WILL be new demands), cause you to step in then, or hate yourself anew for not doing so?

Everyone has a different threshold for this type of manipulation -- understanding yours is probably the best way to solve this difficult problem.

As an aside, and without going into my own situation, I had a relative who was "going to live in abject poverty" because I refused to give her tens of thousands of dollars. She was SO unbelieveably demanding that all guilt and shame disappeared for me. BUT... once she could see that I was unmoveable she solved her own problem quite handily... and has a better sense of her own abilities since she pulled herself up by herself.

Don't be TOO sure that your father is at the end of his rope -- he's got this far under his own steam -- you're only one of many schemes he's probably cooked up to handle his latest challenge.

Whatever you decide, trust that it will be right for YOU. And good luck!
 
kcowan said:
That is not true. He has negotiated a $75k payoff for his mortgage and he has refused to consider an offer close to $275k for his house. He knows exactly what he is doing. Leave him alone.

I had a neighbour who tried to lean on me for financial support. I just said NO! We are still friends. The people that loaned him money are no longer friends.
Click to expand...

I meant there are no good options left for the OP to do to help his father.

I think you did a smart thing by just saying "No" to your neighbor. Giving a reason just opens it up to discussion.
 
Letj said:
Yeh, this group is really tough. I am more in your camp. I think sometimes people forget that as human beings we are flawed. We often blame people for their circumstances without considering that some people may suffer from undiagnosed mental illness, may be handicapped by their limited education, their upbring, their ignorances, their dependence on drugs and alcohol and the list goes on and on. I've lived long enough to realize how fortunate I am because despite my upbringing and influence I saw around me, I turned out right. I didn't turn out right because I made the right choices all on my own. I turned out right because there was intervention in my life and exposure at some point to different values than what I saw around me. Even my choice of career came by what I saw around me. I got my first job in a big company and I saw that the people who made money were all those with the business degrees, especially accounting and I realized my degree in sociology wasn't going to cut it so I went to grad school and got the degree that was more marketable. Let's not be so self righteous because this could have been one of us.
Click to expand...

What do you suggest that the OP do?
 
I think the title to this thread speaks volumes. I suspect the OP already knows what to do, just looking for affirmation.
 
A book I read describes what the author calls "Crazy Makers". They call you at 10:30 PM and ask you (with absolutely no prior notice) to pick up their niece at the airport because the crazy maker messed up and forgot. If you don't pick her up it will be YOUR fault if she has to spend the night at the airport or is kidnapped by some terrorist.
 
A couple of things come to my mind on reading the OP postings.

1. Not sure that anyone at 67 should be thought of being able to enter the employment market and make any meaningful money. Hell I know if I was 67 I wouldn't be keen on going to get a job.

2. I would stay out of it and let him work it out for himself. If you intervene and buy the property and install him as a tenant and he doesn't pay what are you going to do? I'll bet if you are being made to feel guilty about him possibly losing the house to foreclosure you will eat the lack of rent.

3. If you finance the house in any way that he has control, given his history I think it would be safe to go down the road that he will suck out what equity he can for whatever he chooses to do.

Personally I would sit on the sidelines and wait until the final tsunami hits, see what he comes up with to solve his issue, besides hitting on his children.
 
If you're not very careful, you'll wind up owning that house and he will be living there rent free until the end of time. I can't say for sure what I'd do as I haven't faced that situation, but I'm not keen on helping people who skated while I've worked like a dog for over 30 years for the precious little I have - especially when I know it's going to be flushed down a black hole in the ground. I'd probably let it play out however it will. Another really good reason not to let anyone (especially family) know what's in your bank account.
 
Letj said:
Yeh, this group is really tough. I am more in your camp. I think sometimes people forget that as human beings we are flawed. We often blame people for their circumstances without considering that some people may suffer from undiagnosed mental illness, may be handicapped by their limited education, their upbring, their ignorances, their dependence on drugs and alcohol and the list goes on and on. I've lived long enough to realize how fortunate I am because despite my upbringing and influence I saw around me, I turned out right. I didn't turn out right because I made the right choices all on my own. I turned out right because there was intervention in my life and exposure at some point to different values than what I saw around me. Even my choice of career came by what I saw around me. I got my first job in a big company and I saw that the people who made money were all those with the business degrees, especially accounting and I realized my degree in sociology wasn't going to cut it so I went to grad school and got the degree that was more marketable. Let's not be so self righteous because this could have been one of us.
Click to expand...
Helen said:
What do you suggest that the OP do?
Click to expand...
Yeah, and how many interventions do you do "just one more time"?
 
DangerMouse said:
A couple of things come to my mind on reading the OP postings.

1. Not sure that anyone at 67 should be thought of being able to enter the employment market and make any meaningful money. Hell I know if I was 67 I wouldn't be keen on going to get a job.

2. I would stay out of it and let him work it out for himself. If you intervene and buy the property and install him as a tenant and he doesn't pay what are you going to do? I'll bet if you are being made to feel guilty about him possibly losing the house to foreclosure you will eat the lack of rent.

3. If you finance the house in any way that he has control, given his history I think it would be safe to go down the road that he will suck out what equity he can for whatever he chooses to do.

Personally I would sit on the sidelines and wait until the final tsunami hits, see what he comes up with to solve his issue, besides hitting on his children.
Click to expand...


I would also sit on the sidelines but I would be preparing a safety net for when the tsunami happens .Sorry you have to deal with this it most be heart wrenching .
 
Can he rent a small apartment and support himself on his SS income?

Given his age and spotty work history, employment is likely not an option. Given today's economy, he probably wouldn't even be competitive for entry level jobs.

He knows the OP has some money and is testing the waters.

The guy's survived 67 years this way. And he'll continue to survive the rest of his life one way or another. I wonder if his deadbeat status isn't being embellished somewhat. After all, a financial institution saw fit to give him a mortgage at some point. Even with the lax underwriting requirements of the past, he had to have some sort of positive credit history.

Senior citizens in his situation are basically "judgment proof" as far as owing money goes. The only thing he's going to lose is the house. Worst case scenario, he moves into a senior subsidized apartment.
 
$275K property for a guy with no savings and minimal SS is too much house. (How much would a small house go for in that area?) My advice is to say no to any co-signing or trying to buy it for him. Put the house on the market. Let's say it sells for $200K, after he pays off the $150K mortage, he could have $50K in savings. It's not much, but it's better than continuing to try to service this mortgage when he just can't afford it and is just getting deeper into debt.
 
For what is is worth, I did that before (helped family out with money). Yadi Yadi Yadi, I am still out $3,200 after many years. The family tug can be strong, but I made a promise to myself after the last time: If I can help out in any way, I will GIVE the money to a family member. I will not loan it to them.
 
Chickadee said:
According to credit.com, for a reverse mortgage, "credit score, savings, and income are not used in the loan calculation. Instead, your age, health, home value, and home equity are taken into consideration." Maybe that's an option for your father?

Making Sense of Reverse Mortgages | Credit.com
Click to expand...

I was going to suggest that you wish him the best of luck and ask if he has considered a reverse mortgage.

Seriously, do not mix your finances and his crazy.
 
Am I the only one who noticed that the OP's refusal to co-sign a loan resulted in a shouting match from dear old dad?

This leads me to believe that the father knows exactly what is happening and is looking for an easy bail-out at the expense of his sons.

I suspect that you can kiss goodbye to any funding you give him AND be prepared to be the "bad son" for not supporting him in his old age.

I am on the side of the "tough love" group, I'm afraid. Tell him you're sorry but you can't help him financially.
 
Encourage him to sell while he can, use 75 of the sale proceeds to settle up with the mortgagor and then take a large portion of the remainder and buy a SPIA that pays him monthly income and use a smaller portion as an emergency fund and move on to a different place.

But don't jeopardize your financial future to bail him out of his foolishness.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

arch57
Individual Mutual funds to broker account
Replies
5
Views
299
pb4uski
pb4uski
J
Need Advice for Stepbrother
2
Replies
43
Views
3K
ncbill
N
M
Gift or bridge loan for son house purchase
Replies
2
Views
396
mf15
M
T
Looking for article on annuity
2
Replies
35
Views
2K
Sunset
Sunset
K
RMD in 2024 or 2025? born October 28th, 1951
Replies
19
Views
707
kgtest
K

Latest posts

Back
Top Bottom