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Old 12-18-2012, 12:59 PM   #61
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We all benefited from home mortgage deductions and I don't think it would be fair to eliminate it from todays "first" time home buyers.

Companies are already eliminating pensions, changing the 401k's to an annuity operated by insurance companies(which I know a lot of you don't like), government is making insurance more expensive for the younger ones.

Come on...lets give them a break...they deserve the mortgage write off just like we did.
No, there needs to be a change. For many "first" time home buyers and many middle income people, their some of their interest will fit under the standard deduction so the impact will be muted.

Alternatively, one proposal is to allow deductions but limit them so that would have a similar effect. But I favor eliminating the home mortgage deductions entirely (even though if that happened I would probably pay off my mortgage.

The sunny side it it would probably significant reduce the "should I pay off my mortgage" discussions on early-retirement.org.
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Old 12-18-2012, 05:19 PM   #62
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it only benefits the higher tax bracket taxpayers anyhow
Strongly disagree!!
My son is far from rich, is sole supporter of wife and two children.
Every tax deduction he can get helps, just like it helped us.

Just go [Mod Edit] and increase the tax of the upper 2%, limit the deductions they can withdrawl so Buffet will have to pay the same % of taxes his secretary does, increase taxes on div and gains to 20% [Mod Edit] This is a lot more fair than hitting the middle class.
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Old 12-18-2012, 07:25 PM   #63
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WADR, class warfare is not good public policy.
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Old 12-18-2012, 08:24 PM   #64
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Just go [Mod Edit] and increase the tax of the upper 2%, limit the deductions they can withdrawl so Buffet will have to pay the same % of taxes his secretary does, increase taxes on div and gains to 20% [Mod Edit] This is a lot more fair than hitting the middle class.
Yes, you make it sound very fair indeed.
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Old 12-18-2012, 08:27 PM   #65
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it only benefits the higher tax bracket taxpayers anyhow
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Originally Posted by heirloom View Post
Strongly disagree!!
My son is far from rich, is sole supporter of wife and two children.
Every tax deduction he can get helps, just like it helped us.

.... increase taxes on div and gains to 20% so (... investors ...) can add more to the economy..etc...etc...etc. This is a lot more fair than hitting the middle class.
I stripped and edited your comment a bit to eliminate the political edge to it and hopefully avoid a visit from the pig.

First, as has been discussed on this forum, cap gains tax 'advantages' may not be an advantage at all because inflation is not taken into account. One can have a 'real' loss, and it will be taxed as a gain.

Now, I don't know at what point this would be significant, but as investment taxes are increased, at some point it will affect the middle class. You can't have a middle class job unless someone invested in the business that hires middle class workers.

I get tired of this class warfare stuff. Only a small segment of the population have the brains, motivation, acquired knowledge and other skill sets required to start a business. That includes having the financial resources, or the skills to get others to invest in you.

The entrepreneurs need people working for them to succeed. And w/o the entrepreneurs, the workers would have no place to go. It isn't 'warfare', it's a symbiotic relationship. If we don't recognize that, and encourage the bright ones to do their thing, the future will be bleak.

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Old 12-18-2012, 11:00 PM   #66
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Now, I don't know at what point this would be significant, but as investment taxes are increased, at some point it will affect the middle class.
Not as long as the investments are in a 401K or IRA, unless they change the rules. The savings they hold outside of these savings should be taxed, [Mod Edit]



Quote:
You can't have a middle class job unless someone invested in the business that hires middle class workers.
True...but as your business succeeds you shouldn't save your money in Bermuda and other offshore countries to avoid taxes. Our government probably gave these people a nice start with low interest loans, business write-offs, etc. Then they succeed and don't want to give back. Selfish.
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Old 12-19-2012, 08:06 AM   #67
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You just don't get it.

Taxable savings are taxed, the point was that if taxes are increased it disturbs the risk reward relationship so investors chose to take less risk because the after-tax rewards are inadequate which reduces capital available for business expansion which creates middle class jobs.

Most small business owners money is tied up in their business, not offshore. And you are totally off-base that they don't give back - would you really claim that Bill & Melinda Gates, Warren Buffet and others "don't want to give back"? - they contribute millions/billions to charitable causes. Mitt Romney, who you probably vilify, contributes millions to charity each year.

You claim that they are selfish - I think you are greedy. Also see post #63.
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Old 12-19-2012, 05:03 PM   #68
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This thread has taxed the Mods long enough.

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